Heroes of 1776 with Janie Nitze

Janie Nitze and Justice Neil Gorsuch have written a book for young readers,   Heroes of 1776: The Story of the Declaration of Independence, bringing to life the individuals—famous and overlooked—who shaped one of the most consequential documents in world history. 

The book delves into the personalities, debates, and risks that defined the summer of 1776, revealing the Declaration not simply as a statement of ideals, but as a bold act of defiance undertaken by real people facing uncertain futures. From the familiar names like Jefferson and Adams to lesser-known figures like Elizabeth Lewis or Emily Geiger whose contributions have often been overshadowed, this conversation uncovers the rich human tapestry behind America’s “birth certificate.”

This episode invites listeners to reconsider the Declaration as both a political document and a profoundly personal commitment—one that continues to echo through the ongoing story of the American experiment.

ORDER THE BOOK HERE

Transcript

WEBVTT
 
 00:00:00.009 --> 00:00:00.669
 Hello, everyone,
 
 00:00:00.709 --> 00:00:02.569
 and welcome to the Revolution two fifty
 
 00:00:02.589 --> 00:00:03.169
 podcast.
 
 00:00:03.250 --> 00:00:04.089
 I'm Bob Allison.
 
 00:00:04.171 --> 00:00:05.990
 I co-chair the Rev two fifty advisory
 
 00:00:06.011 --> 00:00:06.230
 group.
 
 00:00:06.730 --> 00:00:09.151
 We are a consortium of about seventy five
 
 00:00:09.192 --> 00:00:10.872
 organizations in Massachusetts planning
 
 00:00:10.913 --> 00:00:12.714
 commemorations of the beginnings of
 
 00:00:12.753 --> 00:00:13.794
 American independence.
 
 00:00:14.403 --> 00:00:17.484
 And our guest today is Janie Nitze,
 
 00:00:17.864 --> 00:00:21.306
 and she is most recently the co-author of
 
 00:00:21.346 --> 00:00:24.568
 Heroes of the Story of the Declaration of
 
 00:00:24.608 --> 00:00:25.307
 Independence,
 
 00:00:26.009 --> 00:00:28.289
 co-written with Associate Justice Neil
 
 00:00:28.309 --> 00:00:28.609
 Gorsuch.
 
 00:00:28.649 --> 00:00:29.850
 And this is actually your third
 
 00:00:29.890 --> 00:00:31.852
 collaboration with Justice Gorsuch,
 
 00:00:31.871 --> 00:00:32.951
 and you also clerked for him,
 
 00:00:33.591 --> 00:00:35.052
 as well as for Justice Sotomayor.
 
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 And so we're really happy to have you
 
 00:00:37.975 --> 00:00:38.594
 with us, Janie.
 
 00:00:39.345 --> 00:00:40.926
 Well, I'm so honored to be here.
 
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 I'm just delighted to be speaking with
 
 00:00:42.868 --> 00:00:43.048
 you.
 
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 And you've done so much to advance the
 
 00:00:44.969 --> 00:00:45.609
 knowledge of U.S.
 
 00:00:45.649 --> 00:00:46.030
 history.
 
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 So thank you.
 
 00:00:46.689 --> 00:00:48.110
 I'm delighted to be here.
 
 00:00:48.151 --> 00:00:49.091
 Well, thank you so much.
 
 00:00:49.212 --> 00:00:51.773
 And your book really is capturing the
 
 00:00:51.792 --> 00:00:53.634
 story of the Declaration of Independence
 
 00:00:53.654 --> 00:00:54.854
 and actually of the beginning of the
 
 00:00:54.895 --> 00:00:57.697
 revolution, really for younger readers.
 
 00:00:57.896 --> 00:01:00.177
 And it's beautifully illustrated and the
 
 00:01:00.198 --> 00:01:01.918
 story itself is really well told.
 
 00:01:01.999 --> 00:01:04.820
 So what led you to do this book
 
 00:01:04.861 --> 00:01:06.242
 for this particular audience?
 
 00:01:07.576 --> 00:01:07.816
 Sure.
 
 00:01:07.856 --> 00:01:08.117
 Well,
 
 00:01:08.817 --> 00:01:10.459
 as your listeners know more than anyone,
 
 00:01:10.519 --> 00:01:11.742
 this year is the two hundred fiftieth
 
 00:01:11.802 --> 00:01:13.203
 anniversary of the declaration.
 
 00:01:13.823 --> 00:01:16.025
 And Americans will celebrate with
 
 00:01:16.085 --> 00:01:18.688
 fireworks and barbecues and picnics,
 
 00:01:18.748 --> 00:01:20.171
 as John Adams predicted they would,
 
 00:01:20.210 --> 00:01:21.231
 although he thought it would happen on
 
 00:01:21.251 --> 00:01:22.173
 July second, not July four.
 
 00:01:22.192 --> 00:01:22.373
 Right.
 
 00:01:23.353 --> 00:01:25.694
 And, you know, there'll also be, I'm sure,
 
 00:01:25.734 --> 00:01:27.495
 speeches and articles about the events
 
 00:01:27.536 --> 00:01:28.715
 that led to the Declaration,
 
 00:01:28.736 --> 00:01:30.617
 so the Stamp Act and Tea Party and
 
 00:01:31.156 --> 00:01:32.158
 blockade of Boston.
 
 00:01:32.218 --> 00:01:33.938
 But we wanted to tell with the justice
 
 00:01:33.957 --> 00:01:36.640
 some of the human stories behind the
 
 00:01:36.659 --> 00:01:37.239
 Declaration,
 
 00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:38.719
 a little bit behind the Revolution as
 
 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:38.920
 well.
 
 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:40.521
 So we focused on the Declaration.
 
 00:01:41.260 --> 00:01:42.621
 And there are just so many stories of
 
 00:01:42.941 --> 00:01:45.923
 courage and sacrifice and stories that
 
 00:01:46.082 --> 00:01:48.144
 even I think adults may not know of.
 
 00:01:48.183 --> 00:01:49.944
 We tell the story of Cesar Rodney, who
 
 00:01:50.424 --> 00:01:51.766
 We're at eighty miles to the night of
 
 00:01:51.786 --> 00:01:52.507
 thunderstorms.
 
 00:01:52.527 --> 00:01:54.308
 We're cancer eating away at his face to
 
 00:01:54.328 --> 00:01:58.251
 break a tie vote in the Second Continental
 
 00:01:58.292 --> 00:01:58.852
 Congress.
 
 00:01:59.013 --> 00:02:01.555
 And why young children?
 
 00:02:03.361 --> 00:02:04.641
 We, you know,
 
 00:02:04.662 --> 00:02:05.942
 the justice is passionate about civic
 
 00:02:06.003 --> 00:02:06.543
 education.
 
 00:02:06.703 --> 00:02:07.123
 I am as well.
 
 00:02:07.143 --> 00:02:08.103
 I have three young kids.
 
 00:02:08.623 --> 00:02:10.584
 And I do think there's a lack of,
 
 00:02:11.925 --> 00:02:12.085
 you know,
 
 00:02:12.324 --> 00:02:14.044
 focus out there again on sort of the
 
 00:02:14.205 --> 00:02:16.925
 human virtues that brought about our
 
 00:02:16.966 --> 00:02:19.887
 nation, courage, sacrifice, sense of duty,
 
 00:02:19.926 --> 00:02:20.567
 sense of honor.
 
 00:02:20.586 --> 00:02:22.008
 And so we thought we would direct the
 
 00:02:22.027 --> 00:02:23.487
 story to young children.
 
 00:02:23.647 --> 00:02:24.828
 But hopefully adults will learn something
 
 00:02:24.848 --> 00:02:25.149
 as well.
 
 00:02:25.449 --> 00:02:26.549
 I certainly did in researching it.
 
 00:02:27.911 --> 00:02:29.431
 I learned things in reading it, too.
 
 00:02:29.472 --> 00:02:29.671
 I mean,
 
 00:02:29.692 --> 00:02:31.812
 just ways of emphasizing certain things.
 
 00:02:31.872 --> 00:02:33.394
 What's the thing you think that surprised
 
 00:02:33.413 --> 00:02:35.594
 you the most in doing the research for
 
 00:02:35.995 --> 00:02:38.175
 what is to us a well-known story,
 
 00:02:38.256 --> 00:02:40.817
 but you're really finding pieces of it
 
 00:02:40.856 --> 00:02:41.858
 that are surprising?
 
 00:02:43.778 --> 00:02:46.099
 I think what probably surprised me the
 
 00:02:46.180 --> 00:02:47.681
 most at a high level,
 
 00:02:47.700 --> 00:02:49.260
 and then maybe I can tell sort of
 
 00:02:49.281 --> 00:02:50.741
 one of the stories that surprised me the
 
 00:02:50.782 --> 00:02:51.062
 most,
 
 00:02:51.102 --> 00:02:51.622
 but was the
 
 00:02:52.747 --> 00:02:55.271
 consistency of the suffering of the
 
 00:02:55.391 --> 00:02:56.473
 signers especially.
 
 00:02:56.493 --> 00:02:57.955
 So there were fifty-six signers of the
 
 00:02:57.975 --> 00:02:58.657
 Declaration.
 
 00:03:00.079 --> 00:03:01.159
 First of all, you know,
 
 00:03:01.580 --> 00:03:05.006
 few of them had really been born into
 
 00:03:05.567 --> 00:03:05.986
 kind of a
 
 00:03:07.139 --> 00:03:07.479
 wealth.
 
 00:03:07.500 --> 00:03:08.681
 I think a third were wealthy,
 
 00:03:08.741 --> 00:03:11.522
 but almost all were the first generation
 
 00:03:11.543 --> 00:03:12.443
 to go to college.
 
 00:03:12.883 --> 00:03:14.504
 I think I read some statistics somewhere
 
 00:03:14.544 --> 00:03:16.526
 that of the ninety nine men that signed
 
 00:03:16.545 --> 00:03:18.067
 the Declaration of the Constitution,
 
 00:03:18.586 --> 00:03:20.807
 only nine had fathers who had gone to
 
 00:03:20.848 --> 00:03:23.310
 college for the first generation.
 
 00:03:24.490 --> 00:03:26.891
 There were farmers, merchants,
 
 00:03:26.951 --> 00:03:27.711
 businessmen.
 
 00:03:27.731 --> 00:03:29.312
 There was a minister among the bunch.
 
 00:03:29.673 --> 00:03:29.933
 And
 
 00:03:31.046 --> 00:03:33.049
 They were men who by and large could
 
 00:03:33.068 --> 00:03:35.569
 have probably been better off staying
 
 00:03:35.610 --> 00:03:36.050
 quiet,
 
 00:03:36.091 --> 00:03:38.151
 probably been better off or letting things
 
 00:03:38.192 --> 00:03:40.574
 go and amassing titles or wealth under
 
 00:03:41.455 --> 00:03:42.215
 British rule.
 
 00:03:42.735 --> 00:03:43.295
 But instead,
 
 00:03:43.656 --> 00:03:45.598
 they took a stand at a time when
 
 00:03:46.806 --> 00:03:46.985
 you know,
 
 00:03:47.306 --> 00:03:49.008
 the thirteen colonies going against one of
 
 00:03:49.027 --> 00:03:50.990
 those powerful empires in the world,
 
 00:03:51.030 --> 00:03:54.092
 most powerful navy empire that had an army
 
 00:03:54.111 --> 00:03:55.593
 that was professional, well-trained,
 
 00:03:55.633 --> 00:03:56.835
 won battles around the globe.
 
 00:03:56.875 --> 00:03:57.055
 I mean,
 
 00:03:57.074 --> 00:03:59.776
 what they expected out of this was truly
 
 00:04:00.097 --> 00:04:02.620
 death by hanging, right, for treason.
 
 00:04:03.379 --> 00:04:04.040
 And in the end,
 
 00:04:05.566 --> 00:04:06.986
 Five were captured by the British.
 
 00:04:07.826 --> 00:04:09.048
 One had a son who died.
 
 00:04:09.087 --> 00:04:11.008
 Another had two sons who were captured,
 
 00:04:11.049 --> 00:04:12.150
 thrown in dungeons.
 
 00:04:12.169 --> 00:04:15.671
 A third had their homes fully destroyed or
 
 00:04:15.711 --> 00:04:16.312
 damaged.
 
 00:04:16.492 --> 00:04:20.074
 And nearly all were left poor for their
 
 00:04:20.115 --> 00:04:21.115
 dedication to the cause.
 
 00:04:21.136 --> 00:04:22.916
 So I think the consistency of the
 
 00:04:22.956 --> 00:04:24.557
 suffering is really what was remarkable.
 
 00:04:25.952 --> 00:04:27.115
 That is really something that comes
 
 00:04:27.154 --> 00:04:27.574
 across.
 
 00:04:27.634 --> 00:04:28.797
 And then you even have stories of
 
 00:04:28.836 --> 00:04:31.160
 families, like Elizabeth Lewis's story.
 
 00:04:31.341 --> 00:04:33.983
 She's arrested after this.
 
 00:04:34.144 --> 00:04:35.225
 Can you tell us a little bit more
 
 00:04:35.266 --> 00:04:35.687
 about her?
 
 00:04:36.624 --> 00:04:36.963
 Sure.
 
 00:04:36.983 --> 00:04:38.425
 So one of the signers of the Declaration
 
 00:04:38.444 --> 00:04:39.505
 was Francis Lewis.
 
 00:04:40.846 --> 00:04:43.747
 And shortly after signing the Declaration
 
 00:04:43.788 --> 00:04:44.288
 in the fall,
 
 00:04:44.348 --> 00:04:46.230
 early fall of seventeen seventy six,
 
 00:04:46.250 --> 00:04:47.690
 they actually didn't sign it until some
 
 00:04:47.730 --> 00:04:49.932
 time after they agreed to independence.
 
 00:04:50.733 --> 00:04:53.334
 The British started to march on his home
 
 00:04:53.353 --> 00:04:54.975
 in New York and he wasn't home,
 
 00:04:55.014 --> 00:04:56.776
 but his wife, Elizabeth, was.
 
 00:04:57.476 --> 00:04:58.978
 And sort of family lore, because
 
 00:04:59.458 --> 00:04:59.658
 you know,
 
 00:05:00.317 --> 00:05:02.199
 later generations had written books about.
 
 00:05:02.658 --> 00:05:04.639
 The family lore has it that she stood
 
 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:06.079
 on her porch as the British were
 
 00:05:06.100 --> 00:05:08.620
 approaching and they fired a shot and it
 
 00:05:08.641 --> 00:05:10.581
 landed her feet, but she refused to budge.
 
 00:05:10.601 --> 00:05:12.521
 And she apparently said, you know,
 
 00:05:12.562 --> 00:05:13.963
 said to some, you know, felt that,
 
 00:05:14.083 --> 00:05:14.483
 you know,
 
 00:05:14.622 --> 00:05:16.543
 another shot is not likely to land in
 
 00:05:16.583 --> 00:05:17.363
 the same spot.
 
 00:05:17.403 --> 00:05:19.144
 Again, sort of the stoicism, you know,
 
 00:05:19.184 --> 00:05:20.084
 the courage of the time.
 
 00:05:20.125 --> 00:05:21.685
 And the British captured her and they
 
 00:05:21.704 --> 00:05:22.605
 threw her in a dungeon.
 
 00:05:22.644 --> 00:05:24.586
 And she was released months later,
 
 00:05:24.605 --> 00:05:26.206
 but her health was totally broken after
 
 00:05:26.225 --> 00:05:26.305
 that.
 
 00:05:26.326 --> 00:05:27.726
 And she died shortly thereafter.
 
 00:05:28.307 --> 00:05:29.766
 Francis Lewis himself, you know,
 
 00:05:29.786 --> 00:05:30.487
 grief-stricken.
 
 00:05:30.548 --> 00:05:32.867
 He died too before the revolution was even
 
 00:05:32.927 --> 00:05:33.387
 completed.
 
 00:05:33.427 --> 00:05:35.028
 He didn't see the end of the revolution.
 
 00:05:36.048 --> 00:05:38.829
 So really it was certainly a family
 
 00:05:38.870 --> 00:05:39.329
 affair.
 
 00:05:39.370 --> 00:05:40.550
 And we tell towards the end of the
 
 00:05:40.589 --> 00:05:43.271
 book that the revolution itself, you know,
 
 00:05:44.310 --> 00:05:45.610
 women, children,
 
 00:05:48.072 --> 00:05:50.833
 many people contributed to the success of
 
 00:05:50.872 --> 00:05:51.512
 the revolution.
 
 00:05:52.492 --> 00:05:53.533
 My favorite story, actually,
 
 00:05:53.593 --> 00:05:54.555
 one we don't tell in the book,
 
 00:05:54.574 --> 00:05:55.394
 and part of the book, I mean,
 
 00:05:55.415 --> 00:05:56.276
 our hope is,
 
 00:05:56.336 --> 00:05:57.937
 what's the appetite of some young children
 
 00:05:58.257 --> 00:05:59.197
 to go out and learn more,
 
 00:05:59.257 --> 00:06:01.860
 is a story of a ten-year-old,
 
 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:03.600
 Richard Lord Jones,
 
 00:06:03.661 --> 00:06:05.882
 who becomes a fifer in the Continental
 
 00:06:06.002 --> 00:06:06.262
 Army,
 
 00:06:06.322 --> 00:06:09.464
 and he stays with the Army for three
 
 00:06:09.485 --> 00:06:11.507
 years, and then when he's released,
 
 00:06:11.547 --> 00:06:13.208
 he's released a hundred and fifty miles
 
 00:06:13.228 --> 00:06:15.410
 from home, and he walks home, you know,
 
 00:06:15.550 --> 00:06:16.689
 and I have three kids,
 
 00:06:16.711 --> 00:06:18.050
 and I try to raise them to be
 
 00:06:18.091 --> 00:06:19.451
 independent and good walkers,
 
 00:06:19.512 --> 00:06:19.653
 but
 
 00:06:20.915 --> 00:06:21.536
 You know,
 
 00:06:21.576 --> 00:06:22.935
 telling them these stories is so
 
 00:06:22.975 --> 00:06:23.817
 important, right?
 
 00:06:23.836 --> 00:06:25.757
 These weren't superheroes.
 
 00:06:25.778 --> 00:06:27.338
 This ten-year-old was a superman.
 
 00:06:27.798 --> 00:06:29.278
 But to look at what he could achieve,
 
 00:06:29.338 --> 00:06:30.079
 I think our hope, too,
 
 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:32.040
 is that young people would be inspired a
 
 00:06:32.060 --> 00:06:33.581
 little bit by hearing some of these
 
 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:34.040
 stories.
 
 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:36.639
 It's really true.
 
 00:06:36.699 --> 00:06:36.879
 I mean,
 
 00:06:36.899 --> 00:06:39.300
 we look at these stories of suffering,
 
 00:06:39.341 --> 00:06:40.901
 and sometimes the emphasis is,
 
 00:06:40.922 --> 00:06:42.302
 this is really a bad thing,
 
 00:06:42.343 --> 00:06:44.163
 but here the story is actually something
 
 00:06:44.264 --> 00:06:44.545
 else.
 
 00:06:44.584 --> 00:06:47.165
 It's an inspirational things that you can
 
 00:06:47.206 --> 00:06:49.267
 do, like Richard Lord Jones,
 
 00:06:49.307 --> 00:06:50.968
 and I hope there is a sequel with
 
 00:06:51.129 --> 00:06:52.028
 that story.
 
 00:06:52.990 --> 00:06:55.211
 Emily Geiger is another story you tell in
 
 00:06:55.290 --> 00:06:55.492
 here,
 
 00:06:55.512 --> 00:06:57.812
 a young woman who's taking a message on
 
 00:06:57.853 --> 00:07:00.235
 horseback, and when she is captured,
 
 00:07:00.274 --> 00:07:01.815
 she eats the message.
 
 00:07:01.836 --> 00:07:03.437
 She's memorized the message and eats it,
 
 00:07:03.557 --> 00:07:04.617
 so she gets on to...
 
 00:07:05.918 --> 00:07:08.038
 with the message.
 
 00:07:08.098 --> 00:07:08.759
 No, absolutely.
 
 00:07:08.778 --> 00:07:10.139
 She's only eighteen years old.
 
 00:07:10.839 --> 00:07:12.899
 She volunteers when no one else will.
 
 00:07:12.939 --> 00:07:14.821
 She has to ride through enemy territory.
 
 00:07:15.420 --> 00:07:16.221
 And, you know,
 
 00:07:16.261 --> 00:07:17.302
 this piece isn't in the book,
 
 00:07:17.341 --> 00:07:20.083
 but the generals didn't want to let her
 
 00:07:20.122 --> 00:07:20.302
 go.
 
 00:07:20.362 --> 00:07:21.622
 They were reluctant to let her go.
 
 00:07:21.663 --> 00:07:23.244
 And she perseveres.
 
 00:07:23.524 --> 00:07:27.125
 She argues her way into taking this deadly
 
 00:07:27.165 --> 00:07:28.064
 mission in a way.
 
 00:07:28.904 --> 00:07:30.365
 It's really it's really remarkable.
 
 00:07:31.464 --> 00:07:32.086
 It really is.
 
 00:07:32.466 --> 00:07:33.288
 What inspired them?
 
 00:07:33.408 --> 00:07:33.649
 I mean,
 
 00:07:33.749 --> 00:07:37.617
 what led to this cohort of people who
 
 00:07:37.656 --> 00:07:39.579
 were ready to risk their lives,
 
 00:07:39.620 --> 00:07:41.242
 their fortunes, and their sacred honor,
 
 00:07:41.262 --> 00:07:42.165
 which you really show in the book,
 
 00:07:42.185 --> 00:07:43.668
 are more than just simply words.
 
 00:07:44.434 --> 00:07:46.194
 Right, right.
 
 00:07:46.214 --> 00:07:48.456
 I think what inspired them was a vision
 
 00:07:48.735 --> 00:07:50.776
 of equality and liberty,
 
 00:07:50.817 --> 00:07:52.497
 the ideals of the Declaration.
 
 00:07:53.298 --> 00:07:55.379
 And what I find remarkable, too,
 
 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:58.620
 is it was more a vision for future
 
 00:07:58.661 --> 00:08:01.463
 generations, for posterity than their own.
 
 00:08:01.483 --> 00:08:02.002
 I mean,
 
 00:08:02.023 --> 00:08:03.884
 they knew full well that what they could
 
 00:08:03.944 --> 00:08:06.985
 expect in their lifetimes was loss of
 
 00:08:07.005 --> 00:08:10.127
 fortune, loss of farms, loss of fathers,
 
 00:08:10.206 --> 00:08:10.867
 brothers.
 
 00:08:11.918 --> 00:08:13.740
 children, their own lives.
 
 00:08:15.822 --> 00:08:17.682
 There's this one quote that I believe we
 
 00:08:17.723 --> 00:08:19.285
 have in the book from John Adams.
 
 00:08:19.925 --> 00:08:21.666
 He wrote home to Abigail after the vote
 
 00:08:21.687 --> 00:08:22.887
 for independence and he said,
 
 00:08:25.379 --> 00:08:27.139
 I am well aware of the toil and
 
 00:08:27.160 --> 00:08:28.781
 the blood and the treasure that it will
 
 00:08:28.821 --> 00:08:30.723
 take to maintain this declaration.
 
 00:08:31.343 --> 00:08:32.583
 But through all the gloom,
 
 00:08:32.624 --> 00:08:34.826
 I can see the rays of ravishing light.
 
 00:08:34.905 --> 00:08:36.547
 I can see the end is worth more
 
 00:08:36.567 --> 00:08:37.746
 than all the .
 
 00:08:37.628 --> 00:08:37.967
 And again,
 
 00:08:38.008 --> 00:08:40.308
 he was sort of looking forward to the
 
 00:08:40.350 --> 00:08:41.370
 future times.
 
 00:08:41.409 --> 00:08:43.412
 And so I think they were inspired by
 
 00:08:43.451 --> 00:08:43.652
 that.
 
 00:08:44.011 --> 00:08:44.712
 Nathan Hale,
 
 00:08:45.493 --> 00:08:47.053
 We have in the books for his famous
 
 00:08:47.134 --> 00:08:47.594
 line,
 
 00:08:47.673 --> 00:08:51.716
 he volunteers as a soldier at age twenty.
 
 00:08:51.775 --> 00:08:52.996
 He's caught a year later.
 
 00:08:53.076 --> 00:08:54.297
 He's hanged as a spy.
 
 00:08:54.356 --> 00:08:57.499
 He's standing on the gallows and nooses
 
 00:08:57.519 --> 00:08:58.578
 putting around his neck.
 
 00:08:58.599 --> 00:08:59.980
 And legend has it that he says,
 
 00:09:00.019 --> 00:09:01.701
 I regret that I have only one life
 
 00:09:01.740 --> 00:09:03.922
 to live, to lose for my country.
 
 00:09:04.902 --> 00:09:05.121
 Right.
 
 00:09:05.201 --> 00:09:06.182
 Actually, when he enlisted,
 
 00:09:06.202 --> 00:09:07.663
 he wrote a letter home to his father
 
 00:09:07.702 --> 00:09:08.224
 and he said,
 
 00:09:08.264 --> 00:09:11.544
 a sense of duty inspired me to sacrifice
 
 00:09:11.664 --> 00:09:13.125
 all that I had for my country.
 
 00:09:14.125 --> 00:09:15.486
 So I think there was a real love
 
 00:09:15.567 --> 00:09:17.629
 of country patriotism,
 
 00:09:17.729 --> 00:09:19.990
 love of the vision of liberty and equality
 
 00:09:20.009 --> 00:09:21.150
 that are in the Declaration.
 
 00:09:21.610 --> 00:09:22.211
 Right.
 
 00:09:22.292 --> 00:09:24.092
 And it's certainly something the book
 
 00:09:24.253 --> 00:09:27.715
 hopes to revive or to inspire and get
 
 00:09:28.235 --> 00:09:30.376
 young people to understand this is also
 
 00:09:30.397 --> 00:09:31.638
 their story and their cause,
 
 00:09:31.697 --> 00:09:32.378
 whether they are,
 
 00:09:33.538 --> 00:09:35.360
 whether their ancestors were here or
 
 00:09:35.419 --> 00:09:37.461
 whether they, like many of us,
 
 00:09:37.520 --> 00:09:38.942
 have arrived more recently,
 
 00:09:38.981 --> 00:09:41.024
 that this is really, it is,
 
 00:09:41.344 --> 00:09:43.184
 they knew this was an inspiring story.
 
 00:09:43.865 --> 00:09:46.506
 And one person who doesn't loom large in
 
 00:09:46.527 --> 00:09:47.606
 the book is Washington.
 
 00:09:47.647 --> 00:09:49.648
 And we see much the same story in
 
 00:09:49.687 --> 00:09:52.068
 his writings about a feeling for most of
 
 00:09:52.089 --> 00:09:53.328
 the war like they were going to lose.
 
 00:09:53.349 --> 00:09:54.830
 And then his only recourse was to go
 
 00:09:54.870 --> 00:09:56.110
 west of the mountains and live in a
 
 00:09:56.169 --> 00:09:56.330
 hut.
 
 00:09:56.350 --> 00:09:58.530
 But again,
 
 00:09:58.551 --> 00:10:01.412
 the end is where everyone can sit beneath
 
 00:10:01.451 --> 00:10:03.072
 his own vine and fig tree and nothing
 
 00:10:03.092 --> 00:10:03.793
 can make him afraid.
 
 00:10:04.548 --> 00:10:05.349
 Right.
 
 00:10:05.369 --> 00:10:05.928
 No, absolutely.
 
 00:10:05.948 --> 00:10:07.590
 I mean, that was exactly, exactly.
 
 00:10:07.909 --> 00:10:09.270
 And I love that with Washington.
 
 00:10:09.291 --> 00:10:10.812
 I mean, you're absolutely right.
 
 00:10:10.831 --> 00:10:11.773
 He, you know,
 
 00:10:11.812 --> 00:10:14.173
 he was losing the war for most of
 
 00:10:14.254 --> 00:10:14.394
 it.
 
 00:10:14.894 --> 00:10:16.176
 And he didn't, you know,
 
 00:10:16.235 --> 00:10:17.636
 at the time that he accepted the
 
 00:10:17.677 --> 00:10:20.259
 commission to lead the Continental Army,
 
 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:23.100
 he was telling folks that night, he said,
 
 00:10:23.520 --> 00:10:25.062
 I know that I've just agreed to the
 
 00:10:25.121 --> 00:10:27.363
 ruin of my reputation because no one
 
 00:10:27.403 --> 00:10:28.823
 thought that they could win.
 
 00:10:29.325 --> 00:10:31.086
 And it wasn't until years into the war
 
 00:10:31.125 --> 00:10:32.746
 that really close to the end that the
 
 00:10:32.826 --> 00:10:33.868
 tide began to turn.
 
 00:10:34.807 --> 00:10:35.668
 You know,
 
 00:10:35.688 --> 00:10:37.208
 many say that he did the greatest service
 
 00:10:37.229 --> 00:10:39.210
 to the Republic by also relinquishing
 
 00:10:39.250 --> 00:10:40.389
 power, you know,
 
 00:10:40.409 --> 00:10:42.610
 knowing that he was setting up, you know,
 
 00:10:42.691 --> 00:10:43.751
 he was the first president.
 
 00:10:43.792 --> 00:10:46.452
 He was setting a precedent going forward
 
 00:10:46.493 --> 00:10:48.073
 for the Republic and who relinquished it
 
 00:10:48.094 --> 00:10:48.594
 twice,
 
 00:10:48.714 --> 00:10:50.153
 once giving up his military commission,
 
 00:10:50.234 --> 00:10:52.434
 another time declining to run for a third
 
 00:10:52.475 --> 00:10:53.655
 term.
 
 00:10:53.735 --> 00:10:53.875
 Yeah.
 
 00:10:54.298 --> 00:10:55.879
 It really is a great story.
 
 00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:57.662
 And we're talking with Janie Nitze,
 
 00:10:57.701 --> 00:10:58.422
 whose new book,
 
 00:10:58.482 --> 00:11:00.365
 which she has co-written with Justice Neil
 
 00:11:00.424 --> 00:11:00.904
 Gorsuch,
 
 00:11:01.065 --> 00:11:03.988
 is The Heroes of Seventeen Seventy- The
 
 00:11:04.028 --> 00:11:06.811
 Story of the Declaration of Independence.
 
 00:11:07.412 --> 00:11:08.393
 And it really is about a lot of
 
 00:11:08.432 --> 00:11:08.933
 people.
 
 00:11:09.033 --> 00:11:11.155
 Much of the focus is on the signers
 
 00:11:11.235 --> 00:11:12.376
 and their stories.
 
 00:11:13.177 --> 00:11:14.820
 Some of them, of course, are well known,
 
 00:11:14.860 --> 00:11:16.701
 but then there are others more obscure
 
 00:11:16.740 --> 00:11:18.363
 that probably deserve to be better known,
 
 00:11:18.403 --> 00:11:21.284
 like Richard Stockton and John Hart,
 
 00:11:21.325 --> 00:11:24.648
 who are two signers who really come to
 
 00:11:24.808 --> 00:11:27.630
 untimely ends shortly after this act of
 
 00:11:27.671 --> 00:11:28.110
 heroism,
 
 00:11:28.130 --> 00:11:30.253
 which they knew was actually going to
 
 00:11:30.734 --> 00:11:32.014
 might sacrifice their lives.
 
 00:11:32.034 --> 00:11:34.037
 Can we talk a little bit about Stockton
 
 00:11:34.236 --> 00:11:34.817
 and Hart?
 
 00:11:35.938 --> 00:11:36.198
 Sure.
 
 00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:38.760
 These are two delegates from New Jersey.
 
 00:11:39.721 --> 00:11:41.802
 Stockton, after signing the declaration,
 
 00:11:42.764 --> 00:11:44.884
 went north to help the army with their
 
 00:11:44.926 --> 00:11:46.706
 supplies, and he wrote a letter home,
 
 00:11:46.746 --> 00:11:48.187
 and we excerpt some of it in the
 
 00:11:48.227 --> 00:11:48.508
 book.
 
 00:11:48.788 --> 00:11:52.030
 He wrote of just the absolute
 
 00:11:53.412 --> 00:11:54.993
 almost horror of what he saw.
 
 00:11:55.072 --> 00:11:57.134
 These men in the army had,
 
 00:11:57.154 --> 00:11:58.356
 some had no shoes,
 
 00:11:58.376 --> 00:11:59.538
 they were walking barefoot,
 
 00:12:00.138 --> 00:12:01.559
 walking barefoot in winter often,
 
 00:12:02.139 --> 00:12:04.302
 ragged clothes, not enough ammunition,
 
 00:12:04.322 --> 00:12:05.263
 no stockings.
 
 00:12:05.302 --> 00:12:07.625
 And so he actually gave them most of
 
 00:12:07.666 --> 00:12:09.868
 his stockings and worked to sort of
 
 00:12:09.927 --> 00:12:10.688
 resupply them.
 
 00:12:10.729 --> 00:12:12.770
 And then he got word that the British
 
 00:12:12.811 --> 00:12:14.072
 were marching on his home.
 
 00:12:14.111 --> 00:12:14.552
 And so he
 
 00:12:15.432 --> 00:12:18.754
 fled home and managed to remove his wife
 
 00:12:18.774 --> 00:12:20.215
 and children to the home of a friend.
 
 00:12:20.274 --> 00:12:22.235
 He stayed at another home with a friend.
 
 00:12:23.135 --> 00:12:24.336
 Loyalists betrayed him.
 
 00:12:24.836 --> 00:12:26.697
 He's dragged from his bed in the middle
 
 00:12:26.736 --> 00:12:29.158
 of the night, locked up.
 
 00:12:30.118 --> 00:12:31.599
 He is released months later.
 
 00:12:31.658 --> 00:12:32.999
 There was some sort of negotiations that
 
 00:12:33.019 --> 00:12:33.558
 took place.
 
 00:12:33.578 --> 00:12:34.039
 But in the meantime,
 
 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:35.480
 the British burned his home.
 
 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:38.000
 He had apparently the most prized library
 
 00:12:38.041 --> 00:12:38.900
 in all the colonies.
 
 00:12:38.921 --> 00:12:40.162
 They burned the library.
 
 00:12:40.201 --> 00:12:41.902
 He returns home to essentially nothing.
 
 00:12:41.922 --> 00:12:42.923
 He's left a poor man.
 
 00:12:43.863 --> 00:12:45.303
 John Hart, similar story.
 
 00:12:45.344 --> 00:12:48.706
 He returns home after the signing and his
 
 00:12:48.765 --> 00:12:49.547
 wife is dying.
 
 00:12:49.606 --> 00:12:52.087
 He stays by her deathbed as he hears
 
 00:12:52.548 --> 00:12:54.529
 news that the British are approaching his
 
 00:12:54.570 --> 00:12:54.990
 farm.
 
 00:12:55.549 --> 00:12:57.250
 He flees the last minute to the woods.
 
 00:12:57.291 --> 00:12:59.131
 It's the dead of winter and he hides.
 
 00:12:59.832 --> 00:13:01.614
 He actually writes of the ordeal
 
 00:13:01.693 --> 00:13:02.114
 afterwards.
 
 00:13:02.134 --> 00:13:02.333
 He said,
 
 00:13:02.374 --> 00:13:03.495
 I never spent a night in the same
 
 00:13:03.514 --> 00:13:04.154
 place twice.
 
 00:13:04.315 --> 00:13:04.895
 You know, he hides in
 
 00:13:06.556 --> 00:13:08.177
 in barns, in the forest.
 
 00:13:08.216 --> 00:13:11.138
 He writes once of sharing the bed of
 
 00:13:11.197 --> 00:13:11.878
 a dog.
 
 00:13:13.239 --> 00:13:15.078
 He who dies before the revolution is over.
 
 00:13:15.139 --> 00:13:15.799
 I mean, again,
 
 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:18.160
 the degree of sacrifice for future
 
 00:13:18.181 --> 00:13:19.740
 generations is really remarkable.
 
 00:13:20.581 --> 00:13:21.182
 It really is.
 
 00:13:21.221 --> 00:13:22.682
 We're talking with Janie Nitze,
 
 00:13:22.721 --> 00:13:23.802
 whose new book,
 
 00:13:23.863 --> 00:13:25.582
 which she has co-written with Justice
 
 00:13:25.682 --> 00:13:26.182
 Gorsuch,
 
 00:13:26.302 --> 00:13:29.605
 is Heroes of the Story of the Declaration
 
 00:13:29.644 --> 00:13:30.345
 of Independence.
 
 00:13:31.004 --> 00:13:33.727
 which also has tremendous illustrations.
 
 00:13:33.768 --> 00:13:35.309
 Can you tell us anything more about Chris
 
 00:13:35.350 --> 00:13:36.811
 Ellison, who is your illustrator,
 
 00:13:36.851 --> 00:13:40.556
 and what kind of collaboration it is to
 
 00:13:40.735 --> 00:13:43.779
 do an illustrated book where the pictures
 
 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:46.202
 really do as much or more than the
 
 00:13:46.264 --> 00:13:48.086
 text to carry it or to captivate?
 
 00:13:48.923 --> 00:13:49.783
 I mean,
 
 00:13:49.802 --> 00:13:51.565
 we are so lucky to have Chris Ellison.
 
 00:13:51.585 --> 00:13:51.985
 I mean,
 
 00:13:52.105 --> 00:13:53.306
 his illustrations really make the book.
 
 00:13:53.326 --> 00:13:55.388
 They're incredibly captivating and
 
 00:13:55.427 --> 00:13:56.068
 compelling.
 
 00:13:56.129 --> 00:13:58.370
 And he doesn't work with AI or digital
 
 00:13:58.431 --> 00:13:58.650
 media.
 
 00:13:58.671 --> 00:13:59.711
 It's all by hand.
 
 00:14:00.793 --> 00:14:01.953
 And, you know,
 
 00:14:02.714 --> 00:14:04.095
 I don't know how it works with other
 
 00:14:04.134 --> 00:14:04.436
 books,
 
 00:14:04.475 --> 00:14:06.717
 but he was the type of illustrator who
 
 00:14:06.878 --> 00:14:09.000
 he did so much of his own research.
 
 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:09.279
 Mm-hmm.
 
 00:14:09.980 --> 00:14:10.600
 And he really,
 
 00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:12.923
 the details on every single page,
 
 00:14:13.043 --> 00:14:14.485
 the accuracy of it, you know,
 
 00:14:14.926 --> 00:14:17.889
 who was standing around Thomas Jefferson's
 
 00:14:17.948 --> 00:14:18.708
 deathbed, right?
 
 00:14:19.570 --> 00:14:21.392
 We actually know that from historical
 
 00:14:21.432 --> 00:14:21.753
 records.
 
 00:14:21.773 --> 00:14:23.333
 There's some dispute because people wrote
 
 00:14:23.374 --> 00:14:24.195
 different memories,
 
 00:14:24.215 --> 00:14:26.597
 but we know largely who was around Thomas
 
 00:14:26.638 --> 00:14:27.538
 Jefferson's bed.
 
 00:14:28.139 --> 00:14:30.301
 And he captured that accurately.
 
 00:14:31.381 --> 00:14:35.945
 And so we had come across him because
 
 00:14:36.085 --> 00:14:39.206
 of other books he had done,
 
 00:14:39.707 --> 00:14:41.668
 many of them historical fiction books.
 
 00:14:41.749 --> 00:14:43.990
 And we just immediately knew that if we
 
 00:14:44.230 --> 00:14:45.932
 could possibly be so fortunate to have
 
 00:14:45.971 --> 00:14:46.091
 him,
 
 00:14:46.192 --> 00:14:48.594
 that that's who we wanted because his
 
 00:14:49.254 --> 00:14:51.014
 illustrations really are so captivating.
 
 00:14:51.054 --> 00:14:53.116
 I think even young kids who can't yet
 
 00:14:53.197 --> 00:14:54.837
 read just to flip through and see some
 
 00:14:54.937 --> 00:14:56.298
 of the drawings.
 
 00:14:56.339 --> 00:14:57.399
 I mean,
 
 00:14:57.418 --> 00:14:59.421
 it really brings to life the stories.
 
 00:15:00.153 --> 00:15:00.894
 Really does.
 
 00:15:00.913 --> 00:15:02.134
 Does this make you want to do more
 
 00:15:02.174 --> 00:15:02.875
 books for children?
 
 00:15:03.955 --> 00:15:04.716
 Yes, actually.
 
 00:15:05.875 --> 00:15:06.076
 Yes.
 
 00:15:06.115 --> 00:15:06.316
 I mean,
 
 00:15:06.336 --> 00:15:07.697
 I feel like there are so many stories.
 
 00:15:07.756 --> 00:15:08.756
 Once you start digging into it,
 
 00:15:08.996 --> 00:15:09.797
 you know better than I.
 
 00:15:09.876 --> 00:15:10.638
 Once you start digging in,
 
 00:15:10.658 --> 00:15:12.477
 there's so many stories out there.
 
 00:15:13.097 --> 00:15:14.399
 Henry Knox and the Cannon.
 
 00:15:15.499 --> 00:15:15.719
 Oh, yes.
 
 00:15:15.859 --> 00:15:15.938
 Yes.
 
 00:15:15.958 --> 00:15:16.539
 Bookseller.
 
 00:15:16.580 --> 00:15:17.360
 Just a bookseller.
 
 00:15:17.379 --> 00:15:17.799
 He's twenty.
 
 00:15:17.820 --> 00:15:20.681
 He has no idea how to any supply.
 
 00:15:20.941 --> 00:15:21.280
 Nothing.
 
 00:15:21.301 --> 00:15:22.601
 And he goes and he travels.
 
 00:15:22.682 --> 00:15:25.003
 I think it was three hundred miles to
 
 00:15:25.062 --> 00:15:28.624
 drag his cannons over frozen lakes.
 
 00:15:29.144 --> 00:15:30.725
 to arrive in Boston and break the
 
 00:15:30.845 --> 00:15:31.745
 blockade.
 
 00:15:31.784 --> 00:15:33.365
 I mean, just incredible stories.
 
 00:15:33.405 --> 00:15:34.206
 I would love to do some more.
 
 00:15:34.245 --> 00:15:34.446
 Absolutely.
 
 00:15:34.785 --> 00:15:35.586
 Yeah, that's good.
 
 00:15:35.606 --> 00:15:36.407
 That's good.
 
 00:15:36.447 --> 00:15:36.846
 Very good.
 
 00:15:38.347 --> 00:15:39.268
 I know between us,
 
 00:15:39.288 --> 00:15:40.328
 we can probably think of a lot of
 
 00:15:40.389 --> 00:15:41.928
 great stories to tell in this.
 
 00:15:41.948 --> 00:15:42.028
 Yeah.
 
 00:15:43.889 --> 00:15:44.791
 I'm wondering, too,
 
 00:15:44.931 --> 00:15:46.750
 about the collaboration.
 
 00:15:46.910 --> 00:15:48.292
 You and Justice Gorsuch are both very
 
 00:15:48.312 --> 00:15:49.673
 accomplished lawyers,
 
 00:15:50.033 --> 00:15:53.474
 and you've written two really good books
 
 00:15:53.614 --> 00:15:57.336
 about the court and the nation.
 
 00:15:57.875 --> 00:15:59.738
 So I'm wondering what then the step is
 
 00:15:59.778 --> 00:16:02.139
 to go from that level to writing for
 
 00:16:03.201 --> 00:16:04.642
 a book that's really aimed at a younger
 
 00:16:04.682 --> 00:16:05.202
 audience.
 
 00:16:06.163 --> 00:16:06.484
 Sure.
 
 00:16:06.943 --> 00:16:08.625
 Is it liberating or is it terrifying?
 
 00:16:11.349 --> 00:16:12.730
 Probably actually more terrifying than
 
 00:16:12.889 --> 00:16:14.792
 you're really stepping out of your comfort
 
 00:16:14.831 --> 00:16:15.032
 zone.
 
 00:16:15.052 --> 00:16:16.413
 You know, you know how to write briefs,
 
 00:16:16.472 --> 00:16:17.975
 you know how to write about the law
 
 00:16:17.995 --> 00:16:18.774
 and about the court.
 
 00:16:18.794 --> 00:16:20.937
 And it's a whole nother ballgame to write
 
 00:16:20.956 --> 00:16:21.398
 for kids.
 
 00:16:21.418 --> 00:16:21.658
 But I
 
 00:16:23.945 --> 00:16:25.746
 I don't believe in condescending to kids.
 
 00:16:25.787 --> 00:16:27.849
 I think kids can actually grasp a huge
 
 00:16:27.869 --> 00:16:28.129
 amount.
 
 00:16:28.168 --> 00:16:31.712
 I think sometimes we think that kids can't
 
 00:16:31.793 --> 00:16:33.554
 understand as much as they can.
 
 00:16:34.596 --> 00:16:35.697
 And I think that was part of what
 
 00:16:35.736 --> 00:16:37.879
 we discussed back and forth as we chose
 
 00:16:38.860 --> 00:16:40.001
 how much to include,
 
 00:16:40.022 --> 00:16:42.543
 the degree of difficulty of vocabulary to
 
 00:16:42.583 --> 00:16:43.004
 include.
 
 00:16:44.645 --> 00:16:46.647
 But this really stemmed from a desire.
 
 00:16:46.667 --> 00:16:47.746
 I mean, there were a couple of things.
 
 00:16:47.927 --> 00:16:48.226
 Obviously,
 
 00:16:48.307 --> 00:16:50.087
 it's the two fiftieth anniversary of that
 
 00:16:50.128 --> 00:16:50.768
 operation.
 
 00:16:50.788 --> 00:16:52.947
 We want to talk about the private virtues
 
 00:16:52.967 --> 00:16:54.668
 that it took to maintain the republic.
 
 00:16:55.389 --> 00:16:57.009
 Our first book or his first book was
 
 00:16:57.070 --> 00:16:57.730
 named Republic.
 
 00:16:57.769 --> 00:16:58.730
 If you can keep it,
 
 00:16:59.409 --> 00:17:01.311
 it's up to all of us to to
 
 00:17:01.410 --> 00:17:04.030
 learn about our rights and to preserve it
 
 00:17:04.050 --> 00:17:04.832
 for our generation,
 
 00:17:04.872 --> 00:17:05.912
 for future generations.
 
 00:17:05.991 --> 00:17:08.173
 And he was very strong in civic education.
 
 00:17:08.252 --> 00:17:09.292
 I do as well.
 
 00:17:09.413 --> 00:17:12.034
 So it felt like a fairly natural step
 
 00:17:12.074 --> 00:17:12.294
 to
 
 00:17:13.634 --> 00:17:15.034
 to turn to writing a kid's book,
 
 00:17:15.074 --> 00:17:16.615
 especially this year with the two fiftieth
 
 00:17:16.654 --> 00:17:16.974
 coming on.
 
 00:17:17.015 --> 00:17:18.335
 And I do hope it's one of many,
 
 00:17:18.375 --> 00:17:18.755
 but we'll see.
 
 00:17:18.795 --> 00:17:20.935
 I hope so too.
 
 00:17:20.976 --> 00:17:22.855
 Did your kids have a chance to read
 
 00:17:22.875 --> 00:17:23.916
 it and comment on it?
 
 00:17:24.616 --> 00:17:25.136
 Yes, yes.
 
 00:17:25.196 --> 00:17:27.277
 And they commented on various drafts and
 
 00:17:27.297 --> 00:17:28.178
 they gave us good feedback.
 
 00:17:28.218 --> 00:17:29.758
 I mean, mommy,
 
 00:17:29.798 --> 00:17:31.278
 this part is boring or mommy,
 
 00:17:31.298 --> 00:17:32.378
 I don't understand this part.
 
 00:17:32.419 --> 00:17:36.720
 And it's important to listen to kids.
 
 00:17:36.740 --> 00:17:37.799
 They know best.
 
 00:17:37.819 --> 00:17:38.579
 So they absolutely did.
 
 00:17:39.481 --> 00:17:40.082
 That's very true.
 
 00:17:40.182 --> 00:17:41.663
 You can sense that when you're reading to
 
 00:17:41.702 --> 00:17:42.982
 them or when they're reading a book,
 
 00:17:43.022 --> 00:17:43.843
 what's going to.
 
 00:17:44.282 --> 00:17:46.023
 And I think attaching getting the human
 
 00:17:46.084 --> 00:17:47.903
 side of this really helps as telling the
 
 00:17:47.923 --> 00:17:49.663
 stories of people.
 
 00:17:49.743 --> 00:17:50.265
 Yeah, no,
 
 00:17:50.345 --> 00:17:51.765
 I think that's that's absolutely right.
 
 00:17:51.785 --> 00:17:52.744
 And that was a piece of it.
 
 00:17:52.785 --> 00:17:54.224
 And I think also hearing from them
 
 00:17:54.726 --> 00:17:56.026
 sometimes because we had some adult
 
 00:17:56.046 --> 00:17:56.965
 readers, of course, read it, too.
 
 00:17:57.006 --> 00:17:58.145
 And sometimes we'd hear from them.
 
 00:17:59.086 --> 00:18:00.446
 This seems a little dark.
 
 00:18:00.467 --> 00:18:02.547
 You know, some of the John Hart, right?
 
 00:18:03.728 --> 00:18:05.847
 Someone's son is throwing in a dungeon.
 
 00:18:05.867 --> 00:18:06.728
 He has no food.
 
 00:18:06.768 --> 00:18:08.788
 Someone's stuffing, you know, fellow
 
 00:18:10.970 --> 00:18:11.710
 through the keyhole.
 
 00:18:12.971 --> 00:18:14.051
 It's all very dark.
 
 00:18:15.352 --> 00:18:18.153
 And so we question for a moment,
 
 00:18:18.973 --> 00:18:20.134
 do we excise some of that?
 
 00:18:20.194 --> 00:18:22.415
 And then ultimately,
 
 00:18:22.997 --> 00:18:25.117
 I don't know that you do a service
 
 00:18:25.137 --> 00:18:28.279
 to kids by excising the darker parts of
 
 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:29.000
 life.
 
 00:18:30.401 --> 00:18:30.681
 you know,
 
 00:18:31.040 --> 00:18:32.682
 the darker parts of this story are mixed
 
 00:18:32.761 --> 00:18:35.023
 up fully with the sacrifice and the
 
 00:18:35.044 --> 00:18:36.005
 courage piece of the story.
 
 00:18:36.045 --> 00:18:37.164
 So you can't even do the justice,
 
 00:18:37.184 --> 00:18:37.525
 you know,
 
 00:18:37.545 --> 00:18:39.586
 justice to the story without having it in
 
 00:18:39.606 --> 00:18:39.787
 there.
 
 00:18:40.146 --> 00:18:41.847
 And then when my kids finally read the
 
 00:18:41.867 --> 00:18:42.208
 book, I mean,
 
 00:18:42.228 --> 00:18:43.528
 those were some of their favorite parts.
 
 00:18:43.909 --> 00:18:45.410
 So, yeah,
 
 00:18:45.450 --> 00:18:46.570
 it is something they'll remember.
 
 00:18:46.611 --> 00:18:47.872
 Right.
 
 00:18:50.133 --> 00:18:50.853
 We forget, right?
 
 00:18:50.893 --> 00:18:52.314
 Hans Christian Andersen, you know,
 
 00:18:52.334 --> 00:18:53.513
 some of those early fairy tales,
 
 00:18:53.534 --> 00:18:55.154
 they were dark fairy tales and they've
 
 00:18:55.174 --> 00:18:57.115
 been sort of turned over the last hundred
 
 00:18:57.155 --> 00:18:59.215
 years and by Disney to have for the
 
 00:18:59.256 --> 00:19:00.717
 most part were happy endings,
 
 00:19:00.757 --> 00:19:02.076
 but they didn't necessarily have happy
 
 00:19:02.136 --> 00:19:03.178
 endings at the time that they were
 
 00:19:03.198 --> 00:19:03.417
 written.
 
 00:19:04.633 --> 00:19:05.093
 That's true.
 
 00:19:06.013 --> 00:19:08.316
 And I think that maybe it's the nature
 
 00:19:08.355 --> 00:19:08.817
 of our time,
 
 00:19:08.836 --> 00:19:10.458
 that we don't want happy endings at a
 
 00:19:10.518 --> 00:19:11.960
 time when we seem to be surrounded by
 
 00:19:12.019 --> 00:19:12.839
 doom and gloom.
 
 00:19:12.900 --> 00:19:15.301
 But we don't want to prepare kids for
 
 00:19:15.363 --> 00:19:15.823
 this world.
 
 00:19:15.863 --> 00:19:16.282
 And in fact,
 
 00:19:16.604 --> 00:19:17.625
 one of the themes of the book is
 
 00:19:18.005 --> 00:19:19.625
 they're making this a better world by
 
 00:19:19.746 --> 00:19:21.248
 going through these things.
 
 00:19:21.788 --> 00:19:22.269
 Exactly.
 
 00:19:22.368 --> 00:19:22.868
 No, exactly.
 
 00:19:22.888 --> 00:19:24.289
 We didn't want to shy away from that.
 
 00:19:24.611 --> 00:19:27.212
 We thought that was an important piece.
 
 00:19:28.892 --> 00:19:31.554
 So you do end with the fiftieth
 
 00:19:31.594 --> 00:19:34.957
 anniversary, and both Adams and Jefferson,
 
 00:19:35.237 --> 00:19:36.617
 they see this as providential.
 
 00:19:36.798 --> 00:19:37.519
 It's a sign.
 
 00:19:38.179 --> 00:19:42.782
 And in fact, Jefferson's last words were,
 
 00:19:42.863 --> 00:19:43.784
 is it the fourth?
 
 00:19:43.864 --> 00:19:44.664
 And you tell that.
 
 00:19:46.057 --> 00:19:49.059
 And then getting back to Adams' a week
 
 00:19:49.099 --> 00:19:50.520
 or two before when they asked for a
 
 00:19:50.601 --> 00:19:52.061
 toast for the town of Quincy
 
 00:19:52.102 --> 00:19:53.603
 commemorating, and he says,
 
 00:19:53.823 --> 00:19:54.923
 independence forever.
 
 00:19:55.565 --> 00:19:57.665
 And then they ask, anything else?
 
 00:19:57.685 --> 00:19:59.146
 And he says, not a word.
 
 00:19:59.567 --> 00:20:01.148
 It just seems like such a great ending
 
 00:20:01.769 --> 00:20:03.490
 that leaving that open,
 
 00:20:04.310 --> 00:20:05.352
 as with a republic,
 
 00:20:05.471 --> 00:20:06.532
 if you can keep it,
 
 00:20:06.573 --> 00:20:08.934
 this is the next step is really up
 
 00:20:08.954 --> 00:20:09.095
 to you.
 
 00:20:09.134 --> 00:20:10.375
 I'm sorry, I'm telling the story now.
 
 00:20:11.396 --> 00:20:13.878
 No, no, you did a perfect job.
 
 00:20:13.999 --> 00:20:14.939
 No, that's absolutely right.
 
 00:20:16.840 --> 00:20:21.505
 They believed deeply in the need for each
 
 00:20:21.545 --> 00:20:24.366
 generation to understand the Republic and
 
 00:20:24.446 --> 00:20:26.308
 to be in order to be able to
 
 00:20:26.368 --> 00:20:27.108
 perpetuate it.
 
 00:20:27.148 --> 00:20:28.971
 So one thing that we didn't put in
 
 00:20:28.990 --> 00:20:29.250
 the book,
 
 00:20:29.270 --> 00:20:31.272
 but you of course know Thomas Jefferson,
 
 00:20:31.712 --> 00:20:33.694
 he designed his own two stone.
 
 00:20:34.414 --> 00:20:37.355
 And this supremely accomplished man,
 
 00:20:37.715 --> 00:20:39.557
 first Secretary of State,
 
 00:20:41.017 --> 00:20:43.458
 second Vice President, third President,
 
 00:20:43.877 --> 00:20:45.318
 he didn't list any of those
 
 00:20:45.338 --> 00:20:46.838
 accomplishments on his tombstone.
 
 00:20:46.858 --> 00:20:48.259
 And what he actually wanted instead,
 
 00:20:48.339 --> 00:20:49.640
 one of the three things he wanted,
 
 00:20:49.660 --> 00:20:50.560
 of course,
 
 00:20:50.621 --> 00:20:51.840
 author of the Declaration of Independence,
 
 00:20:51.861 --> 00:20:54.221
 but he also wanted that he was a
 
 00:20:54.422 --> 00:20:56.262
 father of the University of Virginia.
 
 00:20:56.962 --> 00:20:59.703
 And he believed so critically in civic
 
 00:20:59.784 --> 00:21:02.825
 education, and he and many other founders,
 
 00:21:03.365 --> 00:21:05.567
 talk constantly of the need to have a
 
 00:21:05.627 --> 00:21:07.872
 citizenry who were enlightened about their
 
 00:21:07.912 --> 00:21:08.311
 rights,
 
 00:21:08.332 --> 00:21:10.355
 about how a republic functions in order to
 
 00:21:10.394 --> 00:21:11.155
 perpetuate it.
 
 00:21:11.497 --> 00:21:13.138
 And again, going back to the first book,
 
 00:21:13.159 --> 00:21:14.361
 a republic if you can keep it.
 
 00:21:20.011 --> 00:21:20.291
 And again,
 
 00:21:20.311 --> 00:21:21.992
 those are both very forward looking
 
 00:21:22.012 --> 00:21:22.192
 things.
 
 00:21:22.212 --> 00:21:22.532
 And of course,
 
 00:21:22.553 --> 00:21:24.314
 the third thing was he was the author
 
 00:21:24.354 --> 00:21:26.054
 of the Virginia Statute for Religious
 
 00:21:26.095 --> 00:21:26.434
 Freedom,
 
 00:21:26.454 --> 00:21:28.375
 which really sets the American Republic on
 
 00:21:28.394 --> 00:21:30.536
 a much different course from any other
 
 00:21:31.136 --> 00:21:31.636
 place.
 
 00:21:32.656 --> 00:21:35.498
 We're talking with Janie Nitze,
 
 00:21:35.518 --> 00:21:37.798
 who is the co-author of Heroes of
 
 00:21:37.858 --> 00:21:39.059
 Seventeen Seventy Six,
 
 00:21:39.079 --> 00:21:40.640
 the story of the Declaration of
 
 00:21:40.701 --> 00:21:41.280
 Independence,
 
 00:21:41.901 --> 00:21:43.821
 really written for a younger audience.
 
 00:21:43.862 --> 00:21:44.102
 By the way,
 
 00:21:44.122 --> 00:21:45.803
 do you have a particular age group in
 
 00:21:45.843 --> 00:21:46.663
 mind for this?
 
 00:21:48.727 --> 00:21:51.289
 I think probably maybe I would say six
 
 00:21:51.309 --> 00:21:52.791
 to fourteen ideal,
 
 00:21:52.852 --> 00:21:53.814
 but it can be a range.
 
 00:21:53.834 --> 00:21:55.336
 You could have younger kids where the
 
 00:21:55.776 --> 00:21:57.698
 parents just point to the illustrations
 
 00:21:57.718 --> 00:21:59.079
 and tell a little bit of the story.
 
 00:21:59.140 --> 00:22:01.502
 And I think you can have older older
 
 00:22:01.522 --> 00:22:02.625
 kids as well learn from it.
 
 00:22:04.420 --> 00:22:05.320
 It really seems like that,
 
 00:22:05.340 --> 00:22:07.544
 that it really is so beautifully
 
 00:22:07.624 --> 00:22:10.867
 illustrated that anyone can find something
 
 00:22:11.008 --> 00:22:11.268
 in it.
 
 00:22:11.288 --> 00:22:14.192
 And then the text itself is really a
 
 00:22:14.251 --> 00:22:17.434
 very well done history of this particular
 
 00:22:18.076 --> 00:22:19.458
 event with a lot of surprising things.
 
 00:22:19.478 --> 00:22:19.718
 In fact,
 
 00:22:19.778 --> 00:22:21.299
 one of my favorite stories is of Mary
 
 00:22:21.339 --> 00:22:22.280
 Catherine Goddard,
 
 00:22:22.320 --> 00:22:23.423
 the printer who does the
 
 00:22:24.246 --> 00:22:26.028
 First printing of it with all of the
 
 00:22:26.068 --> 00:22:27.691
 signers' names,
 
 00:22:27.810 --> 00:22:30.755
 which is the Dunlap printing just had John
 
 00:22:30.795 --> 00:22:32.116
 Hancock and Charles Thompson,
 
 00:22:32.136 --> 00:22:34.019
 but now they're all on the record.
 
 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:35.280
 And who is she?
 
 00:22:36.106 --> 00:22:36.788
 Right.
 
 00:22:36.827 --> 00:22:36.948
 No,
 
 00:22:37.008 --> 00:22:38.808
 you're she's one of my favorite stories as
 
 00:22:38.828 --> 00:22:39.409
 well from the book.
 
 00:22:40.670 --> 00:22:42.592
 So she was she was a woman.
 
 00:22:42.612 --> 00:22:43.471
 She was born in Connecticut,
 
 00:22:43.511 --> 00:22:45.192
 followed her family,
 
 00:22:45.413 --> 00:22:47.414
 particularly her older brother, William,
 
 00:22:47.474 --> 00:22:48.556
 to Baltimore.
 
 00:22:49.215 --> 00:22:51.218
 William starts just on the eve of the
 
 00:22:51.238 --> 00:22:51.718
 revolution.
 
 00:22:51.778 --> 00:22:52.838
 I think it was for a seventeen,
 
 00:22:52.878 --> 00:22:53.878
 seventy three, seventy four.
 
 00:22:53.898 --> 00:22:55.480
 He starts the city's first newspaper.
 
 00:22:56.181 --> 00:22:57.902
 But he's something of a wanderlust.
 
 00:22:57.942 --> 00:22:59.002
 He eventually leaves.
 
 00:22:59.042 --> 00:23:00.403
 He actually goes to travel around the
 
 00:23:00.423 --> 00:23:02.465
 Thirteen Colonies to form the Continental
 
 00:23:02.566 --> 00:23:04.787
 Post as an alternative to the Royal Post.
 
 00:23:05.508 --> 00:23:08.190
 And Mary takes over the newspaper,
 
 00:23:08.250 --> 00:23:11.071
 and she turns it into a voice of
 
 00:23:11.211 --> 00:23:12.633
 patriot resistance.
 
 00:23:13.452 --> 00:23:17.615
 And this is the part that's great because
 
 00:23:17.655 --> 00:23:19.176
 it affects what comes later.
 
 00:23:19.196 --> 00:23:20.939
 As you know, she always writes,
 
 00:23:20.999 --> 00:23:22.619
 printed by M.K.
 
 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:23.319
 Goddard,
 
 00:23:24.585 --> 00:23:26.449
 We don't know exactly why, but one,
 
 00:23:26.489 --> 00:23:27.991
 you could surmise that she's trying to
 
 00:23:28.031 --> 00:23:29.413
 hide her identity perhaps,
 
 00:23:29.433 --> 00:23:30.236
 shield her identity,
 
 00:23:30.276 --> 00:23:32.098
 maybe shield that she's a woman, right?
 
 00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:32.961
 MK Goddard.
 
 00:23:33.828 --> 00:23:35.990
 And then in January of seventeen seventy
 
 00:23:36.050 --> 00:23:36.371
 six,
 
 00:23:36.411 --> 00:23:39.173
 the second Continental Congress ends up in
 
 00:23:39.212 --> 00:23:41.275
 Baltimore, having fled Philadelphia,
 
 00:23:41.315 --> 00:23:42.855
 the British takeover of Philadelphia.
 
 00:23:43.355 --> 00:23:45.557
 And they decide at this moment that the
 
 00:23:45.597 --> 00:23:47.660
 signers names had been shielded up until
 
 00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:48.780
 then, as you point out,
 
 00:23:48.840 --> 00:23:50.241
 and two of them.
 
 00:23:51.001 --> 00:23:52.483
 And they decide at this point to print
 
 00:23:52.503 --> 00:23:54.305
 the declaration with the names of all the
 
 00:23:54.365 --> 00:23:54.805
 signers.
 
 00:23:54.865 --> 00:23:57.326
 And they turn to Mary Goddard to do
 
 00:23:57.366 --> 00:23:57.507
 so.
 
 00:23:58.428 --> 00:23:58.847
 And she,
 
 00:23:58.887 --> 00:24:00.628
 for the first time that historians know
 
 00:24:00.729 --> 00:24:02.588
 of, wrote on the Declaration,
 
 00:24:02.648 --> 00:24:05.670
 printed by Mary Catherine Goddard, which,
 
 00:24:05.690 --> 00:24:07.030
 again, you have to speculate why.
 
 00:24:07.070 --> 00:24:08.730
 But I like to think that she was
 
 00:24:08.790 --> 00:24:10.571
 signaling to the world that she stood on
 
 00:24:10.592 --> 00:24:12.332
 the side of freedoms for whatever the cost
 
 00:24:12.352 --> 00:24:12.632
 to her,
 
 00:24:12.652 --> 00:24:13.972
 because she really was identifying
 
 00:24:14.012 --> 00:24:15.553
 herself, much like the signers,
 
 00:24:15.593 --> 00:24:16.073
 as a traitor.
 
 00:24:16.633 --> 00:24:18.094
 And she could have been named for it.
 
 00:24:19.434 --> 00:24:20.496
 And she was actually remarkable.
 
 00:24:20.615 --> 00:24:20.756
 Yeah,
 
 00:24:20.796 --> 00:24:22.017
 because there was a cottage of the story
 
 00:24:22.057 --> 00:24:24.419
 where she ended up being the first
 
 00:24:24.479 --> 00:24:26.740
 postmaster of Baltimore and the first
 
 00:24:26.840 --> 00:24:28.583
 woman postmaster in all the Thirteen
 
 00:24:28.603 --> 00:24:29.144
 Colonies.
 
 00:24:31.124 --> 00:24:34.566
 The first postmaster general removes her.
 
 00:24:35.287 --> 00:24:36.887
 Some say for political reasons.
 
 00:24:36.928 --> 00:24:38.409
 He says it's because she's a woman that
 
 00:24:38.449 --> 00:24:40.930
 she can't sort of take on the labor
 
 00:24:41.510 --> 00:24:43.372
 of traveling and being postmaster.
 
 00:24:43.392 --> 00:24:45.212
 He appeals all the way up to Washington.
 
 00:24:45.752 --> 00:24:47.074
 He declines to get involved.
 
 00:24:47.114 --> 00:24:47.894
 He does respond,
 
 00:24:47.914 --> 00:24:49.276
 but declines to get involved.
 
 00:24:49.316 --> 00:24:50.696
 And then she appeals up to the Senate.
 
 00:24:50.757 --> 00:24:53.178
 Also, they declined to get involved.
 
 00:24:53.238 --> 00:24:55.240
 And she ends up running a bookstore for
 
 00:24:55.259 --> 00:24:55.960
 the rest of her life.
 
 00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:57.040
 She's a remarkable woman.
 
 00:24:57.688 --> 00:24:59.088
 She is, she is.
 
 00:24:59.108 --> 00:25:00.990
 The Massachusetts Archives has her
 
 00:25:01.070 --> 00:25:02.951
 printing on display and it's actually also
 
 00:25:03.011 --> 00:25:05.374
 signed by John Hancock as a true copy.
 
 00:25:05.394 --> 00:25:07.435
 Oh, that's incredible.
 
 00:25:07.496 --> 00:25:09.577
 And I love it because it's a declaration
 
 00:25:09.637 --> 00:25:11.839
 that does have a woman's name on it,
 
 00:25:12.380 --> 00:25:14.301
 which is unusual.
 
 00:25:14.402 --> 00:25:16.423
 All these great stories about these people
 
 00:25:16.563 --> 00:25:18.265
 really should make us think about this
 
 00:25:18.285 --> 00:25:20.467
 whole episode period in a different way
 
 00:25:20.507 --> 00:25:22.508
 because these are very much human stories
 
 00:25:22.567 --> 00:25:24.529
 and with motivations often we can
 
 00:25:24.609 --> 00:25:25.230
 understand.
 
 00:25:26.387 --> 00:25:28.615
 I hope the motivation of civic virtue and
 
 00:25:28.776 --> 00:25:30.682
 aspiring for a better life for the next
 
 00:25:30.722 --> 00:25:32.808
 generation will also be one that we can
 
 00:25:32.950 --> 00:25:33.471
 understand.
 
 00:25:34.525 --> 00:25:35.184
 No, absolutely.
 
 00:25:35.204 --> 00:25:36.286
 I mean, as you know,
 
 00:25:36.326 --> 00:25:39.207
 the founders thought that private virtue
 
 00:25:39.907 --> 00:25:41.709
 was essential to the survival of the
 
 00:25:41.749 --> 00:25:42.308
 republic.
 
 00:25:42.868 --> 00:25:43.930
 And so one of my favorite quotes,
 
 00:25:43.950 --> 00:25:44.789
 Ben Franklin said,
 
 00:25:45.250 --> 00:25:47.632
 only a virtuous people can be free.
 
 00:25:48.112 --> 00:25:50.593
 As nations become more corrupt and
 
 00:25:50.653 --> 00:25:52.534
 vicious, they have more need of a master.
 
 00:25:52.854 --> 00:25:53.835
 And I just love that quote.
 
 00:25:53.875 --> 00:25:55.615
 But there are others where John Adams
 
 00:25:55.655 --> 00:25:56.915
 writing to a young friend who said,
 
 00:25:57.317 --> 00:25:59.857
 virtue alone can be the foundations of a
 
 00:25:59.917 --> 00:26:00.377
 republic.
 
 00:26:00.397 --> 00:26:02.019
 George Washington says much the same in
 
 00:26:02.038 --> 00:26:03.059
 his farewell address.
 
 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:03.220
 And
 
 00:26:04.059 --> 00:26:05.641
 They took it seriously enough that they
 
 00:26:05.681 --> 00:26:08.502
 put it in the Declaration because we have
 
 00:26:08.522 --> 00:26:09.702
 a right, well,
 
 00:26:09.782 --> 00:26:11.683
 our rights include a right to life,
 
 00:26:11.743 --> 00:26:13.525
 liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,
 
 00:26:13.545 --> 00:26:14.846
 which, of course,
 
 00:26:15.165 --> 00:26:17.406
 they did not mean the right to pursuit
 
 00:26:17.446 --> 00:26:18.667
 of sort of feeling good.
 
 00:26:18.688 --> 00:26:20.169
 They meant being good.
 
 00:26:20.608 --> 00:26:20.808
 Right.
 
 00:26:20.848 --> 00:26:21.088
 Right.
 
 00:26:21.209 --> 00:26:22.869
 Pursue a virtuous life.
 
 00:26:22.930 --> 00:26:24.931
 And so literally our country was found in
 
 00:26:24.951 --> 00:26:26.932
 the notion of creating the conditions for
 
 00:26:26.991 --> 00:26:29.212
 citizenry to be able to pursue a virtuous
 
 00:26:29.292 --> 00:26:29.614
 life.
 
 00:26:29.653 --> 00:26:31.114
 And so, of course,
 
 00:26:31.153 --> 00:26:32.775
 we learn about the virtues and of course,
 
 00:26:32.795 --> 00:26:34.135
 have models of them.
 
 00:26:34.276 --> 00:26:34.455
 Yeah.
 
 00:26:35.477 --> 00:26:35.957
 And then again,
 
 00:26:36.237 --> 00:26:37.458
 you think twenty years later,
 
 00:26:37.498 --> 00:26:39.598
 the French also are trying to institute
 
 00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:40.278
 virtue.
 
 00:26:40.318 --> 00:26:42.000
 But that takes a much different turn in
 
 00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:43.039
 the French Revolution,
 
 00:26:43.161 --> 00:26:44.101
 the American Revolution.
 
 00:26:45.365 --> 00:26:47.086
 I guess would be even a much darker
 
 00:26:47.125 --> 00:26:47.906
 children's book.
 
 00:26:49.107 --> 00:26:52.530
 Much darker, much darker, much darker.
 
 00:26:52.570 --> 00:26:54.232
 The designers were not, in fact,
 
 00:26:54.932 --> 00:26:56.615
 hanged as they thought they would be.
 
 00:26:56.654 --> 00:26:58.276
 But, you know,
 
 00:26:58.316 --> 00:26:59.917
 the French did not end up so well.
 
 00:27:00.837 --> 00:27:01.278
 That's true.
 
 00:27:01.298 --> 00:27:01.999
 That's very true.
 
 00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:05.823
 Do you have other female heroines of the
 
 00:27:05.843 --> 00:27:07.924
 revolution that come to mind as you're
 
 00:27:08.525 --> 00:27:09.266
 doing this project?
 
 00:27:11.260 --> 00:27:11.681
 Oh, well,
 
 00:27:11.740 --> 00:27:13.541
 we write of another Phyllis Wheatley.
 
 00:27:13.582 --> 00:27:16.723
 We have her in the book as well.
 
 00:27:16.784 --> 00:27:19.565
 So she was actually an enslaved woman.
 
 00:27:19.984 --> 00:27:23.406
 And she wrote beautiful poetry,
 
 00:27:23.487 --> 00:27:25.028
 so beautiful that at the time,
 
 00:27:25.067 --> 00:27:26.248
 because of her status,
 
 00:27:26.808 --> 00:27:29.049
 people did not believe that she wrote it.
 
 00:27:29.089 --> 00:27:30.609
 And she actually had to go before a
 
 00:27:30.710 --> 00:27:31.391
 commission
 
 00:27:32.090 --> 00:27:33.951
 to prove that she was the author of
 
 00:27:33.991 --> 00:27:35.973
 this poetry.
 
 00:27:36.013 --> 00:27:38.474
 And she ended up publishing a book of
 
 00:27:38.515 --> 00:27:38.875
 poetry.
 
 00:27:38.915 --> 00:27:42.018
 John Hancock actually apparently paid to
 
 00:27:42.057 --> 00:27:42.738
 have it published.
 
 00:27:42.758 --> 00:27:44.318
 So he helped her publish it.
 
 00:27:44.378 --> 00:27:46.780
 And she wrote many sort of patriotic
 
 00:27:46.820 --> 00:27:47.260
 writings,
 
 00:27:47.300 --> 00:27:48.821
 including some devoted to George
 
 00:27:48.862 --> 00:27:49.383
 Washington.
 
 00:27:49.423 --> 00:27:51.804
 So hers is a wonderful story.
 
 00:27:51.844 --> 00:27:52.744
 And then, of course,
 
 00:27:52.785 --> 00:27:54.806
 women that we didn't have a chance to
 
 00:27:54.846 --> 00:27:56.686
 include in the book, but Abigail Adams.
 
 00:27:58.167 --> 00:27:59.489
 was a remarkable woman.
 
 00:27:59.669 --> 00:28:00.009
 She wrote,
 
 00:28:00.028 --> 00:28:01.329
 I think it was her who said,
 
 00:28:01.349 --> 00:28:01.529
 you know,
 
 00:28:01.549 --> 00:28:03.471
 don't forget the ladies to her husband.
 
 00:28:03.550 --> 00:28:05.211
 Yeah, he wrote to her husband, yeah.
 
 00:28:06.133 --> 00:28:07.292
 He thought she was kidding, too,
 
 00:28:07.333 --> 00:28:07.993
 when she wrote that.
 
 00:28:11.736 --> 00:28:12.635
 And then there are others.
 
 00:28:12.695 --> 00:28:12.935
 I mean,
 
 00:28:13.036 --> 00:28:14.317
 there's a little blurb about James
 
 00:28:14.376 --> 00:28:15.238
 Armistead Lafayette.
 
 00:28:15.258 --> 00:28:15.617
 And of course,
 
 00:28:15.657 --> 00:28:17.239
 Lafayette's story is a great one.
 
 00:28:17.278 --> 00:28:19.700
 Happens a little bit after, in,
 
 00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:21.461
 but then the book does go up to
 
 00:28:21.500 --> 00:28:22.701
 Yorktown and beyond.
 
 00:28:23.682 --> 00:28:26.964
 That's a fascinating story about James
 
 00:28:27.065 --> 00:28:27.964
 Armistead Lafayette.
 
 00:28:28.445 --> 00:28:30.626
 No, it's an it's an incredible story.
 
 00:28:30.686 --> 00:28:34.709
 And so he was a enslaved enslaved man.
 
 00:28:34.828 --> 00:28:38.111
 He became a spy for George Washington,
 
 00:28:38.151 --> 00:28:41.071
 but actually a double agent and in part.
 
 00:28:42.729 --> 00:28:46.071
 the belief was that because he was
 
 00:28:46.172 --> 00:28:50.016
 enslaved, he could better be a spy.
 
 00:28:50.056 --> 00:28:51.958
 He wouldn't be as suspected of being a
 
 00:28:52.018 --> 00:28:54.980
 spy and he provided critical information
 
 00:28:55.059 --> 00:28:56.181
 to George Washington.
 
 00:28:56.201 --> 00:28:58.743
 He actually provided them information that
 
 00:28:59.023 --> 00:29:00.605
 the British were sending troops to
 
 00:29:00.704 --> 00:29:02.386
 Yorktown because previously they thought
 
 00:29:02.446 --> 00:29:04.048
 that the major battle would happen in New
 
 00:29:04.067 --> 00:29:04.269
 York.
 
 00:29:04.288 --> 00:29:05.589
 George Washington throughout the entire
 
 00:29:05.609 --> 00:29:07.030
 war kept thinking the major battles would
 
 00:29:07.050 --> 00:29:07.731
 happen in New York.
 
 00:29:08.172 --> 00:29:09.932
 And he wanted a major battle.
 
 00:29:09.991 --> 00:29:10.932
 He wanted it in New York.
 
 00:29:11.873 --> 00:29:12.932
 And he was in fact, you know,
 
 00:29:12.952 --> 00:29:15.094
 his troops were preparing for a battle in
 
 00:29:15.114 --> 00:29:15.554
 New York.
 
 00:29:15.594 --> 00:29:16.874
 And because of this information,
 
 00:29:16.973 --> 00:29:18.615
 they actually rerouted and were able to
 
 00:29:18.654 --> 00:29:20.535
 trap Cornwallis in the Battle of Yorktown.
 
 00:29:20.555 --> 00:29:23.096
 But again, this human story, I mean,
 
 00:29:23.316 --> 00:29:24.895
 would we have won the Battle of Yorktown
 
 00:29:24.915 --> 00:29:26.817
 without James Armistead Lafayette?
 
 00:29:26.856 --> 00:29:27.676
 It's unclear.
 
 00:29:28.297 --> 00:29:30.817
 And then, you know, his name, you know,
 
 00:29:31.057 --> 00:29:33.238
 he took on the name of Lafayette,
 
 00:29:33.577 --> 00:29:34.538
 the French general,
 
 00:29:36.718 --> 00:29:39.681
 after the war and General Lafayette came
 
 00:29:39.721 --> 00:29:41.383
 and visited America,
 
 00:29:41.423 --> 00:29:43.285
 I think some twenty or thirty years after
 
 00:29:43.305 --> 00:29:44.125
 the war ended.
 
 00:29:44.185 --> 00:29:45.727
 And, you know,
 
 00:29:45.747 --> 00:29:46.909
 he was marching through town.
 
 00:29:46.949 --> 00:29:49.230
 He spotted James Armistead in the crowd
 
 00:29:49.290 --> 00:29:52.253
 and they embraced in this, you know,
 
 00:29:52.294 --> 00:29:54.076
 fitting moment for the end of the
 
 00:29:54.476 --> 00:29:55.076
 revolution.
 
 00:29:55.096 --> 00:29:56.719
 So just incredible story as well.
 
 00:29:58.362 --> 00:29:59.423
 Washington, again,
 
 00:29:59.462 --> 00:30:00.824
 giving you an idea for the next book,
 
 00:30:00.864 --> 00:30:03.826
 Washington always knew the importance of
 
 00:30:04.945 --> 00:30:05.906
 intelligence.
 
 00:30:06.346 --> 00:30:06.948
 Yesterday,
 
 00:30:07.087 --> 00:30:09.148
 they dedicated a statue to Sarah Bradley
 
 00:30:09.189 --> 00:30:11.750
 Fulton, a woman in the town of Medford.
 
 00:30:11.790 --> 00:30:14.853
 And she apparently also carried messages
 
 00:30:15.413 --> 00:30:17.534
 sewn into the lining of her dress.
 
 00:30:18.035 --> 00:30:20.435
 And when Washington came in, in,
 
 00:30:20.496 --> 00:30:21.017
 as president,
 
 00:30:21.037 --> 00:30:22.237
 he made a point of visiting her.
 
 00:30:22.657 --> 00:30:24.199
 And he does a similar thing on Long
 
 00:30:24.338 --> 00:30:24.699
 Island,
 
 00:30:24.739 --> 00:30:26.380
 recognizing the people involved in a
 
 00:30:26.420 --> 00:30:27.461
 secret spy ring.
 
 00:30:28.080 --> 00:30:29.602
 This could be another good book.
 
 00:30:29.642 --> 00:30:33.865
 And of course,
 
 00:30:34.705 --> 00:30:36.948
 kids love stories of espionage as well.
 
 00:30:37.749 --> 00:30:40.691
 At least mine did.
 
 00:30:40.730 --> 00:30:42.392
 We're talking with Janie Nitze,
 
 00:30:42.432 --> 00:30:44.854
 who is the co-author of Heroes of
 
 00:30:44.913 --> 00:30:46.035
 Seventeen Seventy Six,
 
 00:30:46.075 --> 00:30:47.977
 the story of the Declaration of
 
 00:30:48.076 --> 00:30:48.777
 Independence,
 
 00:30:49.278 --> 00:30:51.380
 really written for young readers,
 
 00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:53.381
 beautifully, beautifully illustrated.
 
 00:30:55.063 --> 00:30:55.343
 Apparently,
 
 00:30:56.044 --> 00:30:57.984
 and we know there's a lot more here.
 
 00:30:59.586 --> 00:31:00.767
 It's a terrific book.
 
 00:31:01.086 --> 00:31:03.107
 And has there been much response to it
 
 00:31:03.127 --> 00:31:05.150
 so far?
 
 00:31:05.269 --> 00:31:05.730
 Oh, yeah, no,
 
 00:31:05.930 --> 00:31:07.951
 we've had great responses so far.
 
 00:31:07.971 --> 00:31:09.492
 I mean, people who, you know,
 
 00:31:09.532 --> 00:31:12.275
 reach out and say that this is the
 
 00:31:12.654 --> 00:31:12.875
 early,
 
 00:31:12.894 --> 00:31:14.296
 it hasn't actually been released yet,
 
 00:31:14.316 --> 00:31:15.257
 it's coming out in May,
 
 00:31:15.797 --> 00:31:17.357
 but they say that they're looking for a
 
 00:31:17.397 --> 00:31:21.520
 book to give or read to their children
 
 00:31:22.040 --> 00:31:23.342
 on the revolution and
 
 00:31:23.971 --> 00:31:25.255
 who can look at least at the cover
 
 00:31:25.315 --> 00:31:26.960
 and see some of the beautiful stories of
 
 00:31:27.019 --> 00:31:27.119
 it.
 
 00:31:27.140 --> 00:31:28.684
 So it hasn't yet been released,
 
 00:31:28.704 --> 00:31:30.631
 but hopefully
 
 00:31:31.736 --> 00:31:34.897
 You know, all the feedback will continue.
 
 00:31:35.917 --> 00:31:36.818
 Having read the proofs,
 
 00:31:36.898 --> 00:31:38.880
 I can recommend it to anyone who's looking
 
 00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:40.800
 for a good book to read to young
 
 00:31:40.820 --> 00:31:43.281
 people about the book or about the
 
 00:31:43.762 --> 00:31:44.403
 revolution.
 
 00:31:44.603 --> 00:31:48.065
 And it's really difficult, I think,
 
 00:31:48.105 --> 00:31:50.665
 to to convey ideas in a book for
 
 00:31:50.705 --> 00:31:51.027
 kids.
 
 00:31:51.067 --> 00:31:52.646
 But you do a good job of conveying.
 
 00:31:52.907 --> 00:31:54.307
 We've talked about the idea of civic
 
 00:31:54.347 --> 00:31:54.888
 virtue.
 
 00:31:55.588 --> 00:31:57.269
 What about the idea of independence?
 
 00:31:57.289 --> 00:31:57.410
 I mean,
 
 00:31:57.450 --> 00:31:59.171
 how do you go about framing that as
 
 00:31:59.211 --> 00:32:00.731
 something that kids will understand?
 
 00:32:00.811 --> 00:32:02.692
 I suppose it is something that they can,
 
 00:32:02.732 --> 00:32:04.153
 but without, as you said,
 
 00:32:04.212 --> 00:32:05.753
 condescending or dumbing it down.
 
 00:32:05.794 --> 00:32:07.194
 You really do a good job, I think,
 
 00:32:07.214 --> 00:32:09.736
 of getting at these ideas.
 
 00:32:10.817 --> 00:32:11.537
 No, I appreciate that.
 
 00:32:11.936 --> 00:32:14.417
 I mean, in part with the ideas,
 
 00:32:14.458 --> 00:32:16.098
 we try to convey at the time,
 
 00:32:16.138 --> 00:32:17.220
 of course, independence.
 
 00:32:18.641 --> 00:32:23.262
 was inextricable at the time of the
 
 00:32:23.442 --> 00:32:25.583
 founding from these ideas of liberty,
 
 00:32:25.824 --> 00:32:30.244
 which wasn't necessarily the case or could
 
 00:32:30.285 --> 00:32:31.326
 have gone differently.
 
 00:32:31.806 --> 00:32:34.146
 But for America really was this idea of
 
 00:32:34.207 --> 00:32:36.146
 liberty and equality eventually in the
 
 00:32:36.166 --> 00:32:37.107
 Declaration of Attendance.
 
 00:32:37.127 --> 00:32:38.367
 So we really try to focus.
 
 00:32:38.387 --> 00:32:40.108
 And this is a piece where I
 
 00:32:41.348 --> 00:32:42.671
 hope that, you know,
 
 00:32:42.711 --> 00:32:44.353
 because we couldn't get into in detail,
 
 00:32:44.393 --> 00:32:46.997
 but I hope kids want to learn more
 
 00:32:47.176 --> 00:32:47.958
 after reading this.
 
 00:32:47.998 --> 00:32:50.441
 We try to convey three big ideas of
 
 00:32:50.461 --> 00:32:51.442
 the Declaration, right?
 
 00:32:51.522 --> 00:32:52.785
 All men are created equal and we all
 
 00:32:52.805 --> 00:32:53.506
 have certain rights,
 
 00:32:53.665 --> 00:32:56.048
 including the right to self-rule and talk
 
 00:32:56.068 --> 00:32:56.730
 about how
 
 00:32:57.830 --> 00:33:00.092
 revolutionary and just radical they were
 
 00:33:00.132 --> 00:33:00.811
 at the time.
 
 00:33:00.872 --> 00:33:01.092
 I mean,
 
 00:33:01.112 --> 00:33:03.532
 when when the declaration eventually made
 
 00:33:03.593 --> 00:33:04.553
 its way to Britain,
 
 00:33:05.512 --> 00:33:07.933
 it was met with a degree of either
 
 00:33:08.473 --> 00:33:11.575
 scorn or mockery or people ignored it.
 
 00:33:12.035 --> 00:33:14.496
 Some magazines wrote of the Americans
 
 00:33:14.536 --> 00:33:16.576
 talking of an inalienable right to talk
 
 00:33:16.696 --> 00:33:17.336
 nonsense.
 
 00:33:17.356 --> 00:33:19.616
 I mean, they were a radical idea.
 
 00:33:19.636 --> 00:33:20.678
 So I think that was a piece of
 
 00:33:20.698 --> 00:33:21.597
 what we tried to convey,
 
 00:33:21.637 --> 00:33:24.239
 because now I think it's very difficult
 
 00:33:24.259 --> 00:33:24.638
 when you're
 
 00:33:25.419 --> 00:33:26.862
 My parents fled from communism,
 
 00:33:26.922 --> 00:33:28.885
 so first generation in this country.
 
 00:33:28.905 --> 00:33:30.128
 And I think it's very difficult,
 
 00:33:30.148 --> 00:33:31.351
 and they always said this to me,
 
 00:33:31.391 --> 00:33:32.913
 where you grew up in America,
 
 00:33:32.953 --> 00:33:34.277
 you grew up surrounded
 
 00:33:35.511 --> 00:33:37.932
 in the air by the ideas of free
 
 00:33:37.972 --> 00:33:39.614
 speech and freedom of religion and the
 
 00:33:39.693 --> 00:33:41.954
 idea that you couldn't worship whoever you
 
 00:33:42.035 --> 00:33:44.455
 wanted to worship is sort of alien to
 
 00:33:44.556 --> 00:33:46.017
 me as a child of America,
 
 00:33:46.037 --> 00:33:47.237
 but for them it was not.
 
 00:33:48.498 --> 00:33:51.098
 And so I think sort of trying a
 
 00:33:51.179 --> 00:33:53.059
 little bit in the book to convey just
 
 00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:55.381
 how radical these ideas are and the fact,
 
 00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:56.340
 again,
 
 00:33:56.381 --> 00:33:57.402
 going back to what you and I have
 
 00:33:57.422 --> 00:33:59.702
 touched on a few times now,
 
 00:33:59.982 --> 00:34:01.103
 and on top of it,
 
 00:34:01.163 --> 00:34:02.884
 it's up to all of us to preserve
 
 00:34:02.923 --> 00:34:04.125
 it for future generations,
 
 00:34:05.421 --> 00:34:05.942
 You know,
 
 00:34:05.981 --> 00:34:08.204
 for however radical they were in seventeen
 
 00:34:08.224 --> 00:34:08.905
 seventy six,
 
 00:34:09.164 --> 00:34:10.927
 it doesn't mean that they're not fragile
 
 00:34:11.166 --> 00:34:11.567
 today.
 
 00:34:11.708 --> 00:34:12.387
 That's very true.
 
 00:34:13.349 --> 00:34:15.632
 Do you think we do have become complacent
 
 00:34:15.652 --> 00:34:17.032
 and take these things for granted and
 
 00:34:17.052 --> 00:34:17.313
 think, OK,
 
 00:34:17.494 --> 00:34:18.815
 if we just change this and this,
 
 00:34:18.855 --> 00:34:20.556
 we'll still have everything else?
 
 00:34:24.882 --> 00:34:27.766
 I hope not, but I worry perhaps.
 
 00:34:28.646 --> 00:34:29.547
 I worry perhaps,
 
 00:34:29.567 --> 00:34:32.751
 and I worry when you're doing such a
 
 00:34:32.771 --> 00:34:34.572
 good job with civic education,
 
 00:34:34.612 --> 00:34:36.554
 but I do worry when you look at
 
 00:34:36.713 --> 00:34:38.115
 broader statistics, right?
 
 00:34:38.155 --> 00:34:38.695
 I think only...
 
 00:34:39.637 --> 00:34:41.858
 um eighteen percent of liberal arts
 
 00:34:41.898 --> 00:34:46.440
 colleges require any form of um course in
 
 00:34:46.561 --> 00:34:49.342
 u.s history which going back to sir thomas
 
 00:34:49.382 --> 00:34:51.242
 jefferson the founding of the university
 
 00:34:51.262 --> 00:34:52.884
 of virginia i mean that the university was
 
 00:34:53.003 --> 00:34:56.746
 founded you know four years of civic
 
 00:34:56.865 --> 00:34:59.666
 education and so only eighteen days and
 
 00:34:59.706 --> 00:35:01.568
 then you know some of the statistics were
 
 00:35:02.048 --> 00:35:03.969
 eighth graders you know i think it was
 
 00:35:04.150 --> 00:35:06.030
 twenty two percent are proficient in
 
 00:35:06.130 --> 00:35:06.610
 civics
 
 00:35:08.291 --> 00:35:08.753
 I know.
 
 00:35:08.853 --> 00:35:10.034
 In American history.
 
 00:35:10.074 --> 00:35:11.355
 And, you know, you look at that.
 
 00:35:11.594 --> 00:35:12.996
 I think you can't help but maybe be
 
 00:35:13.016 --> 00:35:14.657
 a little bit pessimistic when you look at
 
 00:35:15.179 --> 00:35:16.320
 statistics like that.
 
 00:35:17.481 --> 00:35:19.963
 But but you're in Massachusetts,
 
 00:35:20.023 --> 00:35:21.465
 third grade, fifth grade, eighth grade,
 
 00:35:21.485 --> 00:35:21.864
 tenth grade.
 
 00:35:21.885 --> 00:35:23.507
 That's all the history kids get.
 
 00:35:23.606 --> 00:35:24.967
 And it's not American history.
 
 00:35:24.987 --> 00:35:26.469
 That's any kind of history.
 
 00:35:26.570 --> 00:35:27.489
 Think about that.
 
 00:35:27.710 --> 00:35:29.492
 We're not we're just doing a terrible job
 
 00:35:29.532 --> 00:35:30.112
 of teaching it.
 
 00:35:30.771 --> 00:35:30.971
 Right.
 
 00:35:31.590 --> 00:35:31.791
 Right.
 
00:35:31.831 --> 00:35:32.211
 No, no, no.
 
 00:35:32.251 --> 00:35:32.672
 Absolutely.
 
 00:35:32.751 --> 00:35:33.172
 Absolutely.
 
00:35:33.512 --> 00:35:34.172
 And then, you know,
 
 00:35:34.192 --> 00:35:35.693
 I read I read the other day a
 
 00:35:35.753 --> 00:35:37.994
 third of Americans can identify the
 
 00:35:38.034 --> 00:35:39.775
 declaration as a source of the phrase,
 
 00:35:39.795 --> 00:35:40.914
 you know, we are all created equal.
 
 00:35:42.356 --> 00:35:44.655
 I think those are real danger signs.
 
 00:35:44.876 --> 00:35:46.217
 Yeah.
 
 00:35:46.436 --> 00:35:47.858
 And but but I do think we're at
 
 00:35:47.898 --> 00:35:48.557
 a moment, you know,
 
 00:35:48.577 --> 00:35:51.338
 there is a bipartisan recognition across
 
 00:35:51.358 --> 00:35:53.860
 the aisle that this is an issue.
 
 00:35:53.900 --> 00:35:54.980
 And so I think we might we might,
 
 00:35:55.221 --> 00:35:56.041
 you know,
 
 00:35:56.061 --> 00:35:58.041
 be at a low point trending up, hopefully.
 
 00:35:59.300 --> 00:35:59.721
 Hopefully.
 
 00:35:59.780 --> 00:36:00.840
 I mean, your book, we hope,
 
 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:02.222
 will also be part of that,
 
 00:36:02.322 --> 00:36:05.322
 sparking that kind of interest in it,
 
 00:36:05.523 --> 00:36:07.402
 as opposed to by young people.
 
 00:36:07.463 --> 00:36:10.483
 So we could go on all day, Janie,
 
 00:36:10.503 --> 00:36:12.143
 but I know you have things to do.
 
 00:36:13.144 --> 00:36:14.864
 And we've been talking with Janie Nitze,
 
 00:36:14.925 --> 00:36:17.085
 who is the co-author with Justice Neil
 
 00:36:17.126 --> 00:36:19.326
 Gorsuch of Heroes of Seventeen Seventy
 
 00:36:19.385 --> 00:36:19.726
 Six,
 
 00:36:19.766 --> 00:36:21.527
 the story of the Declaration of
 
 00:36:21.567 --> 00:36:22.146
 Independence,
 
 00:36:22.186 --> 00:36:22.387
 really
 
 00:36:22.947 --> 00:36:25.929
 terrific book for young readers and with
 
 00:36:25.989 --> 00:36:29.452
 tremendous illustrations and a great story
 
 00:36:29.492 --> 00:36:30.134
 well told.
 
 00:36:30.173 --> 00:36:31.534
 So thank you so much for joining us.
 
 00:36:32.224 --> 00:36:33.585
 Oh, thank you so much, Isaiah.
 
 00:36:33.606 --> 00:36:35.248
 It's just been a real honor and delight
 
 00:36:35.568 --> 00:36:35.967
 to be here.
 
 00:36:35.987 --> 00:36:37.690
 And I think it's just wonderful what your
 
 00:36:37.710 --> 00:36:38.771
 organization is doing.
 
 00:36:38.831 --> 00:36:40.371
 Well, thank you so much.
 
 00:36:40.431 --> 00:36:40.831
 Thank you.
 
 00:36:40.871 --> 00:36:42.153
 Well, thank you for being part of this.
 
 00:36:42.213 --> 00:36:43.934
 And I want to thank Jonathan Lane,
 
 00:36:43.974 --> 00:36:45.737
 our producer, the man behind the curtain.
 
 00:36:46.356 --> 00:36:48.278
 And I also every week thank folks in
 
 00:36:48.318 --> 00:36:50.159
 different places who are regularly tuning
 
 00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:50.340
 in.
 
 00:36:50.380 --> 00:36:51.681
 And if you're in one of these places
 
 00:36:51.742 --> 00:36:53.722
 and want some Revolution Two-Fifty swag,
 
 00:36:53.742 --> 00:36:56.025
 send Jonathan an email at jlane at
 
 00:36:56.065 --> 00:36:57.547
 revolution two five oh dot org.
 
 00:36:58.126 --> 00:36:58.706
 And this week,
 
 00:36:58.788 --> 00:37:00.288
 I want to thank listeners in Edison,
 
 00:37:00.327 --> 00:37:03.230
 New Jersey and in Geneva, New York,
 
 00:37:03.630 --> 00:37:05.972
 Burbank and San Diego in California,
 
 00:37:06.351 --> 00:37:08.653
 in Denver, Dallas, here in Boston,
 
 00:37:09.454 --> 00:37:10.454
 in Boston, actually,
 
 00:37:10.494 --> 00:37:12.335
 in Newton and Pittsfield in Massachusetts
 
 00:37:12.715 --> 00:37:15.077
 and in Barcelona and in all places between
 
 00:37:15.117 --> 00:37:15.577
 and beyond.
 
 00:37:15.617 --> 00:37:16.458
 Thanks for joining us.
 
 00:37:16.579 --> 00:37:18.320
 Now we'll be piped out on the road
 
 00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:18.760
 to Boston.