Fort Ticonderoga & Henry Knox with Dr. Matthew Keagle

This week t Professor Robert Allison welcomes Dr. Matthew Keagle, Curator at Fort Ticonderoga, for a vivid exploration of one of the most audacious logistical feats of the American Revolution: Henry Knox’s Noble Train of Artillery. Together they trace Knox’s remarkable mid-winter journey of 1775–1776—300 miles across frozen rivers and lakes, treacherous terrain, and sometimes snow-choked roads—to deliver more than 60 tons of captured British artillery to General George Washington.  He also tells us about Real Time Revolution, Ticonderoga's plans for commemorating the 250th!

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WEBVTT
 
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 I'm a Vermonter.
 
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 Really?
 
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 Okay.
 
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 Well,
 
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 welcome everyone to the Revolution Two
 
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 Fifty Podcast.
 
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 Bob Allison,
 
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 chair of the Rev Two Fifty Advisory Group.
 
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 We're a consortium of organizations,
 
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 some seventy-five or so in Massachusetts,
 
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 planning commemorations of American
 
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 independence.
 
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 And our guest,
 
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 whom you might have heard as originally a
 
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 Vermonter, is Dr. Matthew Kegel.
 
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 Matt Kegel is the curator at Fort
 
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 Ticonderoga,
 
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 where he is responsible for research,
 
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 acquisitions,
 
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 and development of the collection,
 
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 as well as supervising the exhibits and
 
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 staff at this tremendous place, the fort.
 
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 And it has a tremendous collection,
 
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 not only of books, but of artifacts,
 
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 cannon, uniforms, other things.
 
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 So, Matt,
 
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 can you tell us a bit about what
 
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 you have to work with at Ticonderoga?
 
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 Well,
 
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 we have an enormous amount to work with.
 
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 The collection at the museum,
 
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 which has been developed over almost a
 
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 century and a quarter now,
 
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 consists of virtually every type of
 
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 material culture from military conflict in
 
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 the eighteenth century.
 
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 So as you say,
 
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 it's everything from very practical things
 
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 like armaments, long arms, pistols,
 
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 edged weapons, pole arms,
 
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 as
 
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 all the way up to artillery,
 
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 of which we have one of the largest
 
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 collections in the country of all those
 
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 types of objects,
 
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 but also some rare surviving uniforms,
 
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 which are exceedingly rare from this time
 
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 period, accoutrements,
 
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 engraved powderhorns, other pieces,
 
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 as well as archaeological material that's
 
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 been recovered from the site here at Fort
 
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 Ticonderoga.
 
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 going all the way to the other end
 
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 of that spectrum to the theoretical
 
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 literature in terms of rare books that
 
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 were published both across Europe and
 
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 North America,
 
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 which document basically the kind of
 
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 underlying theories behind all of these
 
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 different types of objects down to the
 
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 actual fortifications themselves.
 
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 When was the fort built?
 
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 The original construction of the fort
 
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 began in the late fall,
 
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 winter of seventeen fifty five,
 
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 built by the French military during the
 
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 French and Indian War.
 
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 Continued, you know,
 
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 it kind of piecemeal over that entire
 
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 conflict and was probably never fully
 
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 completed,
 
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 at least based on their original designs
 
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 by the end of that war.
 
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 And a host of other factors led to
 
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 its being in relatively poor condition by
 
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 the time the American Revolution begins.
 
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 the french and the british have kind of
 
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 different ideas about how to build a fort
 
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 not necessarily um you know the underlying
 
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 theory for the construction of a lot of
 
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 these the engineering principles were
 
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 mostly french to begin with the major
 
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 english authors that published on this
 
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 like muller in england uh were actually in
 
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 many cases just translating and copying
 
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 out french and to a certain extent dutch
 
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 works so
 
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 the the underlying theory behind it all
 
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 was was pretty similar and you know was
 
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 widely read in both these countries even
 
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 if it was in translation and not the
 
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 original something you know henry knox
 
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 would have known well because he's reading
 
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 a lot of this same literature yeah yeah
 
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 the invalides in paris has this tremendous
 
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 collection of the models of forts oh yes
 
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 Yeah, exactly.
 
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 And, you know, the French,
 
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 like they are in,
 
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 I hesitate to say every,
 
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 but many aspects of military science in
 
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 the eighteenth century are the leaders in
 
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 the field.
 
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 And so, yeah,
 
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 it's unsurprising that that Musée des
 
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 Plans Reliefs, which has this incredible,
 
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 you know, three-dimensional maps,
 
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 is really striking.
 
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 Yeah, and Vauban, the French engineer,
 
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 was really the genius behind it.
 
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 So this is where Henry Knox really learns.
 
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 And he first comes to Washington's
 
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 attention by building a fort in Roxburgh.
 
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 Yeah, yeah.
 
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 You know, I think we associate Knox,
 
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 of course,
 
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 with artillery today because of his later
 
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 Revolutionary War service.
 
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 But he begins the war very much in
 
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 that engineering capacity,
 
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 having developed this practical knowledge
 
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 of military science.
 
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 And that's something that I think is
 
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 really interesting and is a little
 
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 misunderstood in the kind of biography of
 
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 Knox,
 
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 at least as it's often received to us.
 
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 And it's in print as well.
 
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 But, you know,
 
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 when I first learned about Henry Knox,
 
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 you know,
 
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 I knew that he was a
 
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 a clever young man but my impression was
 
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 that you know he kind of learned by
 
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 osmosis because of course he was a
 
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 bookseller he had a books books and
 
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 stationery store in boston and you know
 
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 the assumption was well you know in his
 
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 idle time he just pulled the books off
 
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 his shelves and he read them um but
 
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 in looking into what he was actually
 
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 selling
 
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 Not only did he not sell a lot
 
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 of military titles,
 
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 which aren't hugely popular or necessary
 
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 prior to the revolution,
 
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 but what he later very explicitly
 
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 recommends to other Americans like John
 
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 Adams are books that probably would have
 
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 sold terribly in his bookstore because
 
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 they're very high level,
 
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 very theoretical books.
 
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 But I think that that underscores the mind
 
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 that he had,
 
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 that he actively sought out this
 
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 information.
 
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 He really went after it.
 
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 For somebody who had no formal education,
 
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 this was a real dogged pursuit of his.
 
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 And I think that makes his story all
 
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 the more remarkable in a lot of ways.
 
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 It really is.
 
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 We're talking with Matt Kegel,
 
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 who is the curator at Fort Ticonderoga.
 
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 And so you mentioned also the kind of
 
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 esoteric collections you have of this
 
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 theoretical literature.
 
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 I mean,
 
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 I read this and it's really difficult for
 
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 me to understand.
 
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 I'm making it sound like I do understand
 
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 it.
 
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 How about you?
 
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 I mean,
 
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 you're probably more versed in this than I
 
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 am.
 
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 Yeah, and it varies.
 
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 You know,
 
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 we went through our library collections
 
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 here and polled for some programming and
 
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 other uses this fall.
 
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 All of the books that Henry Knox
 
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 recommended to John Adams.
 
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 Wow.
 
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 Adams inquires.
 
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 It's about a dozen different titles.
 
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 Of course, they're a little vague.
 
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 Sometimes he'll only mention an author's
 
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 name,
 
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 not the title of the work that he
 
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 has in mind.
 
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 But we have some of the representative key
 
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 works from many of them.
 
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 And some of them are very practical.
 
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 It's how you're going to lay your canon
 
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 out, how to design canon,
 
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 the principles behind their use,
 
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 how are you going to make field
 
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 fortifications,
 
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 how to take a church and defend it
 
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 against an enemy attack.
 
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 I think we can understand those things.
 
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 Some of the other stuff that he
 
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 recommends,
 
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 especially the more theoretical works by
 
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 Vauban, by Bellador,
 
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 Blondel,
 
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 these French authors are much harder to
 
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 grasp.
 
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 And I will admit that I'm in the
 
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 humanities, not the hard sciences,
 
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 which those works veer into a little more.
 
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 I mean,
 
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 you crack open one of these books and
 
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 the first few chapters
 
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 are math, it's geometry,
 
 00:06:41.738 --> 00:06:44.002
 it's a lot of just understanding these
 
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 figures,
 
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 which underscores the technical aspects of
 
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 these and why it is the engineering,
 
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 it is artillery that in the eighteenth
 
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 century are the military disciplines that
 
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 required often a formal education outside
 
 00:06:57.975 --> 00:06:59.458
 of your infantry and certainly your
 
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 cavalry officers.
 
 00:07:01.446 --> 00:07:02.166
 It's really fascinating.
 
 00:07:02.187 --> 00:07:03.267
 So Washington,
 
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 and it's November of seventeen seventy
 
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 five.
 
 00:07:05.529 --> 00:07:07.732
 He asks Knox to do a survey of
 
 00:07:07.771 --> 00:07:09.673
 what the Continental Army has in terms of
 
 00:07:09.713 --> 00:07:11.415
 artillery and also what they need.
 
 00:07:11.896 --> 00:07:12.115
 Yes.
 
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 Within a day or two,
 
 00:07:13.237 --> 00:07:15.418
 he's able to complete this very detailed
 
 00:07:15.478 --> 00:07:17.420
 list of what they have and what they
 
 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:17.781
 need.
 
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 Yeah.
 
 00:07:18.923 --> 00:07:20.845
 And I think he's aided by the fact
 
 00:07:20.865 --> 00:07:22.745
 that even a month,
 
 00:07:22.826 --> 00:07:24.648
 a little over a month prior to that,
 
 00:07:25.108 --> 00:07:25.548
 Gridley,
 
 00:07:25.569 --> 00:07:25.649
 the
 
 00:07:26.997 --> 00:07:28.358
 current commander of the Continental
 
 00:07:28.398 --> 00:07:28.838
 Artillery,
 
 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:31.560
 had prepared his own summary to Washington
 
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 of what was needed and what they had.
 
 00:07:34.264 --> 00:07:37.387
 And this goes back to I think another
 
 00:07:37.406 --> 00:07:38.927
 misconception that we sometimes have is
 
 00:07:38.968 --> 00:07:41.971
 that the Continental Army had no artillery
 
 00:07:42.151 --> 00:07:43.452
 with which to bombard Boston.
 
 00:07:43.713 --> 00:07:44.673
 They did have artillery.
 
 00:07:44.733 --> 00:07:45.314
 They had some.
 
 00:07:45.334 --> 00:07:46.574
 They're already starting to mount it in
 
 00:07:46.595 --> 00:07:47.055
 their lines.
 
 00:07:47.295 --> 00:07:48.858
 They do not have enough.
 
 00:07:49.398 --> 00:07:52.519
 And you go back to this prescriptive
 
 00:07:52.579 --> 00:07:54.600
 literature, especially on siegecraft,
 
 00:07:54.641 --> 00:07:56.581
 which is the most formulaic,
 
 00:07:56.641 --> 00:07:59.403
 the most kind of broken down to its
 
 00:07:59.444 --> 00:08:01.485
 scientific elements of any aspect of
 
 00:08:01.524 --> 00:08:02.826
 warfare from this time period.
 
 00:08:03.065 --> 00:08:04.666
 And you go to books like Vauban and
 
 00:08:04.687 --> 00:08:06.067
 other authors, they can tell you,
 
 00:08:06.108 --> 00:08:08.610
 if you're an army that is facing a
 
 00:08:09.629 --> 00:08:11.531
 fortification with X number of troops in
 
 00:08:11.571 --> 00:08:11.672
 it,
 
 00:08:11.891 --> 00:08:13.793
 you need Y number of troops to attack
 
 00:08:13.812 --> 00:08:15.814
 it, you need Z number of artillery,
 
 00:08:16.194 --> 00:08:17.834
 and it will last for X amount of
 
 00:08:18.115 --> 00:08:18.495
 days.
 
 00:08:18.615 --> 00:08:19.036
 So there
 
 00:08:19.096 --> 00:08:20.216
 is literally, you know,
 
 00:08:20.235 --> 00:08:21.737
 in some ways a formula that you can
 
 00:08:21.757 --> 00:08:22.456
 apply to this.
 
 00:08:22.937 --> 00:08:24.517
 And they would have known about this.
 
 00:08:24.577 --> 00:08:25.637
 And so they could have said, well, yes,
 
 00:08:25.677 --> 00:08:27.319
 we do have some tools,
 
 00:08:27.718 --> 00:08:28.819
 but we don't have enough.
 
 00:08:28.978 --> 00:08:30.139
 You know, we need manpower.
 
 00:08:30.418 --> 00:08:31.420
 We need the artillery.
 
 00:08:31.819 --> 00:08:33.440
 We need more artillery that we have to
 
 00:08:33.539 --> 00:08:36.240
 assure victory rather than just, you know,
 
 00:08:36.260 --> 00:08:37.621
 achieve parity, say.
 
 00:08:39.062 --> 00:08:39.182
 Yeah,
 
 00:08:39.221 --> 00:08:41.143
 because they do have the British besieged
 
 00:08:41.182 --> 00:08:41.743
 in Boston.
 
 00:08:41.763 --> 00:08:43.302
 The British are surrounded by the
 
 00:08:43.363 --> 00:08:44.504
 Continental Army.
 
 00:08:45.083 --> 00:08:45.264
 But
 
 00:08:45.611 --> 00:08:47.774
 they don't have that next step.
 
 00:08:47.833 --> 00:08:49.033
 And part of this, of course,
 
 00:08:49.073 --> 00:08:50.515
 is getting Dorchester Heights.
 
 00:08:50.535 --> 00:08:52.576
 And I understand that General Clinton had
 
 00:08:52.616 --> 00:08:54.298
 suggested the British take that,
 
 00:08:54.357 --> 00:08:56.519
 but the other generals overruled him.
 
 00:08:57.739 --> 00:08:59.259
 One thing we get out of Clinton's memoir
 
 00:08:59.278 --> 00:09:00.360
 is that things would have gone a lot
 
 00:09:00.379 --> 00:09:01.820
 differently had they only listened to Sir
 
 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:02.500
 David Clinton.
 
 00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:03.940
 Yeah, exactly.
 
 00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:04.519
 Well,
 
 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:06.181
 I imagine it would have dangerously
 
 00:09:06.221 --> 00:09:07.900
 extended the British as well if they're
 
 00:09:07.921 --> 00:09:11.260
 already holding Charlestown and Boston and
 
 00:09:11.301 --> 00:09:12.121
 Dorchester.
 
 00:09:12.201 --> 00:09:14.322
 It makes them a little more vulnerable in
 
 00:09:14.381 --> 00:09:14.902
 some ways.
 
 00:09:15.381 --> 00:09:16.182
 Yeah, it would have.
 
 00:09:17.261 --> 00:09:22.503
 So Knox then sets out to... Now,
 
 00:09:22.682 --> 00:09:24.844
 how did the... So the French built it,
 
 00:09:25.504 --> 00:09:26.604
 and then the British take it,
 
 00:09:27.321 --> 00:09:29.201
 And then how does it fall into the
 
 00:09:29.261 --> 00:09:30.962
 hands of our side?
 
 00:09:31.344 --> 00:09:31.703
 Yeah,
 
 00:09:31.783 --> 00:09:33.105
 there's a lot of ground to cover there.
 
 00:09:33.144 --> 00:09:35.365
 The British unsuccessfully,
 
 00:09:35.385 --> 00:09:37.388
 in dramatic fashion in seventeen fifty
 
 00:09:37.447 --> 00:09:39.048
 eight, failed to take Ticonderoga.
 
 00:09:39.408 --> 00:09:41.630
 Ends up being the bloodiest battle fought
 
 00:09:41.691 --> 00:09:43.951
 in this continent until really the
 
 00:09:44.032 --> 00:09:45.933
 Mexican-American War of the eighties.
 
 00:09:45.974 --> 00:09:47.674
 The British suffer higher casualties than
 
 00:09:47.715 --> 00:09:48.414
 at Bunker Hill.
 
 00:09:48.455 --> 00:09:48.554
 Well,
 
 00:09:49.456 --> 00:09:50.937
 not as an overall percentage of their
 
 00:09:50.976 --> 00:09:52.798
 force, but as a as a fixed number,
 
 00:09:52.837 --> 00:09:54.658
 almost two thousand British and American
 
 00:09:54.698 --> 00:09:55.159
 casualties.
 
 00:09:55.950 --> 00:09:57.291
 Who was leading the campaign on the
 
 00:09:57.311 --> 00:09:58.350
 British side?
 
 00:09:58.390 --> 00:09:59.652
 General James Abercrombie,
 
 00:10:00.331 --> 00:10:01.413
 who you might not have heard of because
 
 00:10:01.432 --> 00:10:03.874
 he's dismissed from command later that
 
 00:10:03.913 --> 00:10:05.215
 year, unsurprisingly,
 
 00:10:05.254 --> 00:10:07.134
 for this kind of spectacular failure.
 
 00:10:07.154 --> 00:10:09.056
 They outnumbered the French almost four to
 
 00:10:09.155 --> 00:10:09.277
 one.
 
 00:10:09.317 --> 00:10:11.177
 It should have been a no-brainer,
 
 00:10:11.597 --> 00:10:13.379
 but it was a stinging defeat.
 
 00:10:13.418 --> 00:10:16.059
 And it gave Americans a sense really of...
 
 00:10:17.523 --> 00:10:19.063
 The fact that the British could be beaten,
 
 00:10:19.784 --> 00:10:21.105
 it adds to one of the litany of
 
 00:10:21.145 --> 00:10:22.547
 French and Indian war defeats for the
 
 00:10:22.586 --> 00:10:24.908
 British that kind of get in the American
 
 00:10:24.967 --> 00:10:25.408
 mindset.
 
 00:10:25.428 --> 00:10:26.570
 They're not invincible,
 
 00:10:26.629 --> 00:10:28.691
 which they revive in the revolution.
 
 00:10:28.990 --> 00:10:32.653
 Franklin is writing satirical songs that
 
 00:10:32.754 --> 00:10:35.216
 revive these British defeats as proof that
 
 00:10:35.255 --> 00:10:36.817
 Americans can make their efforts.
 
 00:10:36.876 --> 00:10:39.058
 But they come back in seventeen fifty nine
 
 00:10:39.119 --> 00:10:40.899
 under General Jeffrey Amherst and they
 
 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:43.942
 capture Ticonderoga and it remains a
 
 00:10:43.981 --> 00:10:44.763
 British possession.
 
 00:10:45.062 --> 00:10:47.004
 throughout the peace following the French
 
 00:10:47.024 --> 00:10:47.684
 and Indian War.
 
 00:10:47.725 --> 00:10:50.067
 So it's still in British hands with a
 
 00:10:50.206 --> 00:10:51.748
 relatively small garrison.
 
 00:10:51.788 --> 00:10:52.369
 At some points,
 
 00:10:52.389 --> 00:10:54.309
 there's as few as fifteen men at
 
 00:10:54.350 --> 00:10:56.692
 Ticonderoga leading up to the revolution.
 
 00:10:57.212 --> 00:11:00.575
 They had started to reinforce Ticonderoga,
 
 00:11:00.615 --> 00:11:00.894
 though,
 
 00:11:00.934 --> 00:11:02.476
 by seventeen seventy five with the
 
 00:11:02.517 --> 00:11:04.879
 understanding that they're getting reports
 
 00:11:04.899 --> 00:11:07.520
 from the area of suspicious activity going
 
 00:11:07.581 --> 00:11:07.681
 on.
 
 00:11:08.081 --> 00:11:10.522
 The Garrison's Commander reports about odd
 
 00:11:10.562 --> 00:11:12.581
 questions that people are asking armed
 
 00:11:12.621 --> 00:11:13.462
 groups of people,
 
 00:11:13.802 --> 00:11:15.582
 particularly across the lake in the New
 
 00:11:15.623 --> 00:11:16.462
 Hampshire Grants.
 
 00:11:16.884 --> 00:11:18.644
 But also because the British government
 
 00:11:18.683 --> 00:11:20.404
 has made a commitment by November of
 
 00:11:20.445 --> 00:11:23.765
 seventeen seventy four to reconstruct both
 
 00:11:23.806 --> 00:11:24.706
 Ticonderoga
 
 00:11:25.186 --> 00:11:26.126
 and Crown Point,
 
 00:11:26.767 --> 00:11:29.528
 which had burned in a few years prior
 
 00:11:29.548 --> 00:11:29.928
 to this.
 
 00:11:30.469 --> 00:11:33.029
 And this was to stabilize a British
 
 00:11:33.090 --> 00:11:35.711
 presence on Lake Champlain that they saw
 
 00:11:35.932 --> 00:11:39.793
 as useful to have if tensions in America
 
 00:11:40.354 --> 00:11:41.254
 got out of hand.
 
 00:11:41.374 --> 00:11:43.455
 It also maintained communication between
 
 00:11:43.735 --> 00:11:45.255
 the British province of New York and the
 
 00:11:45.275 --> 00:11:46.777
 British province of Quebec much more
 
 00:11:46.856 --> 00:11:49.317
 easily than going around the Atlantic to
 
 00:11:49.359 --> 00:11:49.719
 do so.
 
 00:11:50.418 --> 00:11:53.104
 but only a small number of reinforcements
 
 00:11:53.124 --> 00:11:55.187
 had gotten a Ticonderoga by the time that
 
 00:11:55.268 --> 00:11:57.410
 the revolution began in April.
 
 00:11:58.011 --> 00:11:59.654
 And interestingly enough,
 
 00:12:00.908 --> 00:12:02.208
 On April nineteenth,
 
 00:12:02.349 --> 00:12:03.690
 seventeen seventy five,
 
 00:12:04.051 --> 00:12:05.892
 Thomas Gage wrote a letter to the governor
 
 00:12:05.912 --> 00:12:08.453
 of Canada instructing him to dispatch an
 
 00:12:08.494 --> 00:12:11.096
 entire regiment from Quebec to go to
 
 00:12:11.135 --> 00:12:13.697
 Ticonderoga or Crown Point to be ready in
 
 00:12:13.758 --> 00:12:17.181
 case of agitation with the New Hampshire
 
 00:12:17.201 --> 00:12:19.182
 Grant settlers in case things got out of
 
 00:12:19.222 --> 00:12:19.582
 hand.
 
 00:12:19.982 --> 00:12:21.445
 And of course, you know,
 
 00:12:21.465 --> 00:12:22.826
 later in the day that that letter is
 
 00:12:22.846 --> 00:12:23.145
 written,
 
 00:12:23.326 --> 00:12:24.966
 the situation on the ground in Boston is
 
 00:12:25.048 --> 00:12:26.269
 very different from what it was that
 
 00:12:26.369 --> 00:12:26.708
 morning.
 
 00:12:27.109 --> 00:12:28.809
 And by the time it gets to Canada,
 
 00:12:29.150 --> 00:12:30.692
 the Americans have already made an effort
 
 00:12:30.731 --> 00:12:32.653
 to capture and have succeeded in capturing
 
 00:12:32.692 --> 00:12:33.494
 Ticonderoga,
 
 00:12:33.533 --> 00:12:36.916
 which they did coming out of the fallout
 
 00:12:36.995 --> 00:12:37.937
 from April.
 
 00:12:37.976 --> 00:12:40.337
 Nineteenth is Massachusetts and then later
 
 00:12:40.378 --> 00:12:41.318
 Connecticut, New Hampshire,
 
 00:12:41.339 --> 00:12:43.821
 Rhode Island forces begin to invest Boston
 
 00:12:44.140 --> 00:12:45.621
 surrounding it on the mainland.
 
 00:12:45.902 --> 00:12:47.903
 They realized that one of the deficiencies
 
 00:12:47.923 --> 00:12:50.585
 that they have is a lack of heavy
 
 00:12:50.885 --> 00:12:52.466
 battering guns, heavy artillery.
 
 00:12:52.486 --> 00:12:52.606
 Sure.
 
 00:12:53.047 --> 00:12:55.427
 reach the British in Boston to force them
 
 00:12:56.207 --> 00:12:57.869
 out or to force them into an action.
 
 00:12:58.308 --> 00:13:01.450
 And so two separate colonial entities in
 
 00:13:01.490 --> 00:13:04.350
 Massachusetts and Connecticut come up with
 
 00:13:04.370 --> 00:13:06.011
 the idea, well, you know,
 
 00:13:06.052 --> 00:13:07.292
 going back to that last war,
 
 00:13:07.332 --> 00:13:08.113
 the French and Indian War,
 
 00:13:08.153 --> 00:13:10.374
 this massive amount of artillery up on
 
 00:13:10.413 --> 00:13:11.693
 Lake Champlain, because, of course,
 
 00:13:11.994 --> 00:13:14.414
 the British brought their own siege trains
 
 00:13:14.495 --> 00:13:16.096
 to attack those fortifications.
 
 00:13:16.956 --> 00:13:19.437
 They fell, and I often say,
 
 00:13:19.798 --> 00:13:21.340
 not unlike a lot of conflicts throughout
 
 00:13:21.379 --> 00:13:21.820
 history,
 
 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:24.461
 when you have an expeditionary force going
 
 00:13:24.501 --> 00:13:25.163
 overseas,
 
 00:13:25.562 --> 00:13:27.404
 the last thing any government wants to do
 
 00:13:27.705 --> 00:13:30.326
 is pay to send all that materiel back
 
 00:13:30.386 --> 00:13:32.008
 home when it's over.
 
 00:13:32.269 --> 00:13:33.470
 So all of this artillery,
 
 00:13:33.830 --> 00:13:35.331
 including captured French guns,
 
 00:13:35.431 --> 00:13:37.472
 largely stayed at Crown Point and
 
 00:13:37.493 --> 00:13:38.253
 Ticonderoga,
 
 00:13:38.494 --> 00:13:40.894
 which is why there's this odd stockpile of
 
 00:13:40.934 --> 00:13:43.197
 weaponry in the heart of the continent in
 
 00:13:43.236 --> 00:13:43.738
 many ways.
 
 00:13:44.317 --> 00:13:45.458
 And so, again,
 
 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:47.721
 Massachusetts's provincial Congress
 
 00:13:48.461 --> 00:13:49.721
 empowers, oddly enough,
 
 00:13:49.841 --> 00:13:51.903
 a Connecticut soldier, Benedict Arnold,
 
 00:13:52.203 --> 00:13:54.046
 to raise a regiment to march out and
 
 00:13:54.066 --> 00:13:54.966
 to take the cannon.
 
 00:13:55.386 --> 00:13:56.648
 While at the same time,
 
 00:13:57.048 --> 00:13:58.349
 officials from Connecticut,
 
 00:13:58.428 --> 00:14:00.431
 many of whom are assemblymen,
 
 00:14:00.770 --> 00:14:03.192
 although it is a campaign not officially
 
 00:14:03.312 --> 00:14:05.153
 sanctioned by the Connecticut General
 
 00:14:05.193 --> 00:14:05.674
 Assembly,
 
 00:14:06.235 --> 00:14:08.735
 uh secretly make their way west and north
 
 00:14:09.155 --> 00:14:11.376
 uh with the same goal in mind and
 
 00:14:11.616 --> 00:14:12.857
 it is the connecticut half of the
 
 00:14:12.898 --> 00:14:15.538
 expedition that has more money um more
 
 00:14:15.599 --> 00:14:17.799
 manpower by the time they get into western
 
 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:19.400
 massachusetts they start pulling in uh
 
 00:14:20.181 --> 00:14:21.961
 western massachusetts communities in
 
 00:14:22.081 --> 00:14:25.043
 pittsfield in that area and soldiers or
 
 00:14:25.143 --> 00:14:26.423
 militiamen at least to join this
 
 00:14:26.484 --> 00:14:28.845
 expedition and then they get the support
 
 00:14:28.904 --> 00:14:31.125
 of the green mountain boys this kind of
 
 00:14:31.285 --> 00:14:31.645
 you know
 
 00:14:32.884 --> 00:14:35.431
 pseudo militia paramilitary force
 
 00:14:35.510 --> 00:14:37.395
 self-defense you know group they might
 
 00:14:37.416 --> 00:14:38.177
 have called themselves
 
 00:14:39.976 --> 00:14:41.817
 who are at least armed,
 
 00:14:42.077 --> 00:14:43.980
 they're relatively well organized,
 
 00:14:44.379 --> 00:14:46.181
 and they have tens,
 
 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:48.763
 hundreds of members that can be mobilized
 
 00:14:48.802 --> 00:14:49.703
 for this expedition.
 
 00:14:50.183 --> 00:14:51.625
 And as they're heading northward,
 
 00:14:51.865 --> 00:14:53.586
 they are met on the road by Benedict
 
 00:14:53.626 --> 00:14:53.886
 Arnold,
 
 00:14:53.907 --> 00:14:55.727
 who has gone hell for leather from
 
 00:14:56.187 --> 00:14:58.610
 Cambridge to make this happen.
 
 00:14:59.150 --> 00:15:00.390
 And together,
 
 00:15:00.511 --> 00:15:03.354
 in a tentative truce between Arnold and
 
 00:15:03.413 --> 00:15:03.994
 Ethan Allen,
 
 00:15:04.014 --> 00:15:05.414
 the leader of the Green Mountain Boys,
 
 00:15:05.695 --> 00:15:07.296
 they storm into the fort and they capture
 
 00:15:07.316 --> 00:15:09.138
 it on May tenth of seventeen seventy five.
 
 00:15:10.313 --> 00:15:11.453
 We're talking with Matt Kegel,
 
 00:15:11.474 --> 00:15:13.375
 who is the curator at Fort Ticonderoga,
 
 00:15:13.414 --> 00:15:16.135
 where all of this happened in May of
 
 00:15:16.176 --> 00:15:17.155
 seventeen seventy five.
 
 00:15:17.596 --> 00:15:18.355
 And, you know, Ethan,
 
 00:15:18.395 --> 00:15:19.636
 a lot of those guys had come up
 
 00:15:19.677 --> 00:15:20.456
 from Connecticut.
 
 00:15:20.496 --> 00:15:22.658
 But then this area is in dispute between
 
 00:15:23.357 --> 00:15:24.717
 New Hampshire, New York,
 
 00:15:24.758 --> 00:15:26.818
 as well as Allen and the other folks
 
 00:15:26.839 --> 00:15:27.339
 who were there.
 
 00:15:27.379 --> 00:15:29.919
 So so was Allen's idea we're going to
 
 00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:31.559
 get this to lift the siege of Boston
 
 00:15:31.580 --> 00:15:32.820
 or was it going to get this to
 
 00:15:33.561 --> 00:15:35.961
 repel the sheriff of Albany County from
 
 00:15:36.020 --> 00:15:37.761
 coming in and trying to take away our
 
 00:15:37.802 --> 00:15:38.261
 property?
 
 00:15:39.201 --> 00:15:41.601
 Yeah, I think it did.
 
 00:15:41.783 --> 00:15:43.663
 As every event in an event like the
 
 00:15:43.703 --> 00:15:44.384
 Revolution,
 
 00:15:44.744 --> 00:15:47.405
 there are multiple motivations at work.
 
 00:15:47.546 --> 00:15:49.746
 Ethan Allen, I don't get the impression,
 
 00:15:49.846 --> 00:15:53.529
 was immediately concerned about the siege
 
 00:15:53.549 --> 00:15:54.210
 of Boston,
 
 00:15:54.350 --> 00:15:56.110
 although he does reference it after the
 
 00:15:56.150 --> 00:15:57.152
 capture of the fort.
 
 00:15:57.792 --> 00:15:59.572
 um you know for his purposes in the
 
 00:15:59.712 --> 00:16:02.434
 the ongoing dispute between new york over
 
 00:16:02.455 --> 00:16:04.436
 their claims to this territory and what
 
 00:16:04.456 --> 00:16:06.697
 becomes vermont that had been settled by
 
 00:16:06.736 --> 00:16:09.099
 people with charters from new hampshire
 
 00:16:09.359 --> 00:16:10.418
 that the green mountain boys had been
 
 00:16:10.700 --> 00:16:13.020
 formed to you know violently resist new
 
 00:16:13.061 --> 00:16:14.861
 york's control of that claims after they
 
 00:16:14.881 --> 00:16:17.302
 had lost in new york courts the legal
 
 00:16:17.322 --> 00:16:19.764
 battle for that land i think they saw
 
 00:16:19.784 --> 00:16:23.106
 it in some ways as eliminating a potential
 
 00:16:24.004 --> 00:16:26.485
 threat that the British would support New
 
 00:16:26.525 --> 00:16:27.385
 York's claims.
 
 00:16:27.966 --> 00:16:30.287
 And whether they knew the full extent of
 
 00:16:30.326 --> 00:16:31.547
 the correspondence or not,
 
 00:16:32.368 --> 00:16:34.207
 the governor of New York and the
 
 00:16:34.227 --> 00:16:35.548
 lieutenant governor of New York,
 
 00:16:35.808 --> 00:16:37.249
 as well as the governor of Canada,
 
 00:16:37.609 --> 00:16:39.529
 had had kind of constant communication
 
 00:16:39.710 --> 00:16:41.710
 with garrison commanders at Ticonderoga
 
 00:16:42.009 --> 00:16:44.390
 and Army High Command in America about the
 
 00:16:44.451 --> 00:16:46.211
 issue of these tensions in the New
 
 00:16:46.251 --> 00:16:46.991
 Hampshire grants.
 
 00:16:47.532 --> 00:16:48.631
 And the government,
 
 00:16:48.951 --> 00:16:50.653
 the royal government of New York
 
 00:16:50.832 --> 00:16:53.453
 repeatedly requested Gage and Frederick
 
 00:16:53.474 --> 00:16:54.793
 Haldeman, commanders in chief,
 
 00:16:55.094 --> 00:16:58.034
 to send troops down to Ticonderoga or
 
 00:16:58.054 --> 00:17:00.416
 Crown Point that could be used against
 
 00:17:00.775 --> 00:17:02.316
 what they called the rioters in the New
 
 00:17:02.336 --> 00:17:03.116
 Hampshire grants.
 
 00:17:04.517 --> 00:17:06.117
 the you know to the credit of the
 
 00:17:06.159 --> 00:17:07.940
 military administration gage and how
 
 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:10.342
 demand repeatedly they said no you know
 
 00:17:10.362 --> 00:17:12.584
 the army is not here to police disputes
 
 00:17:12.644 --> 00:17:15.666
 between colonies territory and they
 
 00:17:15.747 --> 00:17:17.087
 certainly don't want to get involved in a
 
 00:17:17.127 --> 00:17:18.828
 situation where they might you know shed
 
 00:17:18.868 --> 00:17:20.590
 the blood of colonists they you know i
 
 00:17:20.611 --> 00:17:22.051
 think they've learned something in boston
 
 00:17:22.071 --> 00:17:25.335
 in that this is just going to exacerbate
 
 00:17:25.355 --> 00:17:27.076
 tensions and they said unless we get
 
 00:17:27.115 --> 00:17:28.778
 specific word from the king
 
 00:17:29.337 --> 00:17:30.919
 The army is not going in there.
 
 00:17:31.058 --> 00:17:32.079
 You know, if you have a dispute,
 
 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:33.400
 you've got a militia.
 
 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:34.820
 You can mobilize your militia.
 
 00:17:35.201 --> 00:17:37.201
 But by the time you get into April
 
 00:17:37.241 --> 00:17:38.722
 and May of seventeen seventy five,
 
 00:17:39.563 --> 00:17:41.104
 the pleading from the government of New
 
 00:17:41.124 --> 00:17:43.085
 York says, you know, basically, you know,
 
 00:17:43.105 --> 00:17:44.526
 military force is the only thing that's
 
 00:17:44.546 --> 00:17:45.967
 going to bring these people back to royal
 
 00:17:46.007 --> 00:17:46.507
 control.
 
 00:17:46.946 --> 00:17:48.688
 And as much as Gage has been reticent
 
 00:17:48.708 --> 00:17:50.910
 about this, starts to suggest that,
 
 00:17:50.970 --> 00:17:51.130
 you know,
 
 00:17:51.329 --> 00:17:54.451
 maybe having the army ready might be a
 
 00:17:54.490 --> 00:17:55.112
 good idea.
 
 00:17:55.751 --> 00:17:56.492
 Now, again,
 
 00:17:56.512 --> 00:17:59.013
 I don't know how much Ethan Allen himself
 
 00:17:59.115 --> 00:18:00.214
 or other members of the Green Mountain
 
 00:18:00.234 --> 00:18:02.076
 Boys had access to this private
 
 00:18:02.096 --> 00:18:02.757
 correspondence,
 
 00:18:02.997 --> 00:18:04.617
 but he could probably imagine the threat
 
 00:18:04.637 --> 00:18:06.940
 from the Army at a post like Ticonderoga.
 
 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:09.561
 And so eliminating that post would have
 
 00:18:09.602 --> 00:18:12.284
 benefited their efforts as well as added
 
 00:18:12.324 --> 00:18:13.644
 to the greater good of the Siege of
 
 00:18:13.664 --> 00:18:14.164
 Boston.
 
 00:18:14.484 --> 00:18:16.686
 And so when you can accomplish your local
 
 00:18:16.727 --> 00:18:19.929
 goals and support broader goals,
 
 00:18:20.769 --> 00:18:21.971
 I think it's a win-win in some ways.
 
 00:18:21.990 --> 00:18:22.090
 Right.
 
 00:18:22.111 --> 00:18:24.593
 This is great.
 
 00:18:24.673 --> 00:18:25.053
 Of course,
 
 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:28.040
 The great line that we have when Alan
 
 00:18:28.101 --> 00:18:30.342
 demands the surrender of the fort and the
 
 00:18:30.481 --> 00:18:31.862
 captain, the commander says,
 
 00:18:32.061 --> 00:18:33.123
 to am I surrendering?
 
 00:18:33.163 --> 00:18:33.442
 And he says,
 
 00:18:33.462 --> 00:18:34.803
 you're surrendering in the name of the
 
 00:18:34.843 --> 00:18:36.503
 great Jehovah and the Continental
 
 00:18:36.544 --> 00:18:38.684
 Congress.
 
 00:18:38.904 --> 00:18:41.026
 Is that something that's plausible he
 
 00:18:41.086 --> 00:18:41.685
 might have said?
 
 00:18:42.987 --> 00:18:44.626
 It's plausible that he wrote it because he
 
 00:18:44.686 --> 00:18:49.088
 did many years later in one of the
 
 00:18:49.148 --> 00:18:50.769
 best selling books of the Revolutionary
 
 00:18:50.809 --> 00:18:51.130
 War.
 
 00:18:51.529 --> 00:18:52.931
 The reality of it, I think,
 
 00:18:53.151 --> 00:18:54.672
 is implausible.
 
 00:18:54.692 --> 00:18:55.932
 In part,
 
 00:18:56.153 --> 00:18:57.593
 Ethan Allen had an interesting
 
 00:18:57.633 --> 00:18:59.213
 relationship with Christianity.
 
 00:18:59.894 --> 00:19:01.755
 Some people even accusing him of barely
 
 00:19:01.795 --> 00:19:02.655
 being a Christian.
 
 00:19:02.736 --> 00:19:04.395
 So to invoke Jehovah in that way,
 
 00:19:04.476 --> 00:19:05.156
 perhaps not.
 
 00:19:05.876 --> 00:19:06.718
 I think more tellingly,
 
 00:19:07.137 --> 00:19:08.618
 the Continental Congress because the
 
 00:19:08.679 --> 00:19:10.539
 Second Continental Congress only met for
 
 00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:12.740
 the first time later that same day.
 
 00:19:12.760 --> 00:19:15.662
 They did not even exist as an embodied
 
 00:19:15.682 --> 00:19:18.044
 Congress when Fort Ticonderoga was taken.
 
 00:19:18.263 --> 00:19:20.204
 They certainly had no notice of this
 
 00:19:20.244 --> 00:19:22.506
 because it's a week later that Congress
 
 00:19:22.546 --> 00:19:25.488
 gets word that two colonies effectively
 
 00:19:25.728 --> 00:19:28.088
 had gone off on their own and captured
 
 00:19:28.108 --> 00:19:29.210
 this fortress,
 
 00:19:29.490 --> 00:19:31.230
 which left them with a bit of a
 
 00:19:31.270 --> 00:19:32.892
 challenge of how do you spin this?
 
 00:19:33.771 --> 00:19:35.772
 You can't you can't rewind the clock.
 
 00:19:35.792 --> 00:19:37.314
 You know, again, once once this is out,
 
 00:19:37.414 --> 00:19:38.035
 it's done.
 
 00:19:38.515 --> 00:19:40.497
 They had to find a way to justify
 
 00:19:40.537 --> 00:19:40.616
 it.
 
 00:19:40.717 --> 00:19:41.656
 And interestingly enough,
 
 00:19:41.938 --> 00:19:44.459
 Congress's first response to this is not
 
 00:19:44.538 --> 00:19:46.019
 we we got it so we could get
 
 00:19:46.039 --> 00:19:47.621
 Canada to break the siege of Boston.
 
 00:19:48.001 --> 00:19:50.824
 Their response is to portray this as a
 
 00:19:50.884 --> 00:19:54.205
 defensive measure against the British in
 
 00:19:54.266 --> 00:19:54.705
 Canada.
 
 00:19:56.446 --> 00:19:57.788
 This follows upon,
 
 00:19:58.127 --> 00:20:00.349
 especially in the first months of the war,
 
 00:20:00.690 --> 00:20:04.573
 this effort of framing British action as
 
 00:20:04.633 --> 00:20:06.953
 aggressive and American action as
 
 00:20:07.015 --> 00:20:07.714
 defensive.
 
 00:20:07.954 --> 00:20:10.096
 Going back to in Massachusetts,
 
 00:20:10.116 --> 00:20:11.417
 the provincial Congress is doing after
 
 00:20:11.458 --> 00:20:12.278
 Lexington and Concord,
 
 00:20:12.298 --> 00:20:14.819
 getting depositions that say from both
 
 00:20:14.859 --> 00:20:16.401
 British and American participants,
 
 00:20:16.681 --> 00:20:18.303
 Oh, it was the British that fired first.
 
 00:20:18.583 --> 00:20:19.625
 They were the aggressors.
 
 00:20:19.845 --> 00:20:21.467
 We were simply defending ourselves.
 
 00:20:21.767 --> 00:20:24.150
 Congress frames the capture of Ticonderoga
 
 00:20:24.210 --> 00:20:25.491
 as this defensive measure.
 
 00:20:25.791 --> 00:20:27.213
 Well, if we didn't capture it,
 
 00:20:27.294 --> 00:20:28.134
 and it was, of course,
 
 00:20:28.174 --> 00:20:32.279
 captured by locals to really playing up,
 
 00:20:32.339 --> 00:20:32.539
 I think,
 
 00:20:32.560 --> 00:20:32.941
 the role of the
 
 00:20:32.961 --> 00:20:33.682
 Green Mountain Boys,
 
 00:20:33.821 --> 00:20:35.942
 rather than schemes that were hatched in
 
 00:20:36.222 --> 00:20:37.324
 Cambridge and Hartford.
 
 00:20:38.605 --> 00:20:40.246
 And they say, if we hadn't captured this,
 
 00:20:40.465 --> 00:20:41.787
 if these locals hadn't captured it,
 
 00:20:41.807 --> 00:20:43.488
 the British would use this as this
 
 00:20:43.568 --> 00:20:46.330
 launchpad to invade the back parts of New
 
 00:20:46.351 --> 00:20:48.211
 York and Massachusetts,
 
 00:20:48.511 --> 00:20:50.413
 which the British had discussed,
 
 00:20:50.472 --> 00:20:52.875
 but I don't think was an open idea
 
 00:20:53.295 --> 00:20:53.955
 on their part of
 
 00:20:54.316 --> 00:20:56.797
 quite at this stage.
 
 00:20:57.518 --> 00:21:00.559
 And, you know, their first order was to,
 
 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:01.240
 yes,
 
 00:21:01.420 --> 00:21:02.861
 inventory the cannon that had been
 
 00:21:02.901 --> 00:21:04.942
 captured at Ticonderoga and Crown Point,
 
 00:21:05.221 --> 00:21:07.482
 but to shift them southward to Fort George
 
 00:21:07.502 --> 00:21:08.983
 at the other end of Lake George,
 
 00:21:09.223 --> 00:21:10.664
 where they could be kind of safely
 
 00:21:10.724 --> 00:21:12.726
 monitored so that when all of this is
 
 00:21:12.826 --> 00:21:13.507
 over with the British,
 
 00:21:13.527 --> 00:21:14.886
 they can be handed back with the full
 
 00:21:14.906 --> 00:21:15.367
 accounting.
 
 00:21:15.387 --> 00:21:15.887
 Wow.
 
 00:21:15.928 --> 00:21:16.268
 Wow.
 
 00:21:17.067 --> 00:21:17.568
 It's amazing.
 
 00:21:18.269 --> 00:21:18.409
 Amazing.
 
 00:21:18.429 --> 00:21:19.490
 We're talking with Matt Kegel,
 
 00:21:19.509 --> 00:21:21.351
 the curator at Fort Ticonderoga,
 
 00:21:21.411 --> 00:21:23.051
 talking about this amazing story of the
 
 00:21:23.092 --> 00:21:23.571
 fort and this
 
 00:21:24.001 --> 00:21:25.541
 cache of cannon that are there.
 
 00:21:25.561 --> 00:21:27.182
 And then of course our friend Henry Knox,
 
 00:21:27.863 --> 00:21:28.963
 we know the cannon are there.
 
 00:21:29.023 --> 00:21:30.743
 So he is the one who goes out
 
 00:21:30.763 --> 00:21:33.184
 to get them then in late,
 
 00:21:33.224 --> 00:21:35.665
 so let's talk about that.
 
 00:21:35.705 --> 00:21:38.326
 So who is he at this time?
 
 00:21:38.886 --> 00:21:39.767
 How does he get there?
 
 00:21:42.528 --> 00:21:43.367
 What do you do when he gets there?
 
 00:21:44.147 --> 00:21:47.269
 Knox is, again, he's quite young.
 
 00:21:47.308 --> 00:21:48.630
 He's a volunteer with the army.
 
 00:21:48.650 --> 00:21:49.809
 He has no formal rank.
 
 00:21:49.910 --> 00:21:52.310
 He's in his correspondence.
 
 00:21:54.218 --> 00:21:56.920
 rejected an offer that at least is
 
 00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:59.320
 discussed about him to get a commission as
 
 00:21:59.340 --> 00:22:00.662
 a lieutenant colonel of engineers he's
 
 00:22:00.701 --> 00:22:02.403
 holding out for colonel of artillery you
 
 00:22:02.423 --> 00:22:03.423
 know i think he has a good sense
 
 00:22:03.462 --> 00:22:06.184
 of his his confidence and his abilities um
 
 00:22:06.325 --> 00:22:07.526
 and this is a way to you know
 
 00:22:07.586 --> 00:22:09.487
 prove his his chops where i think to
 
 00:22:09.527 --> 00:22:10.867
 washington who signed him with his
 
 00:22:10.907 --> 00:22:13.308
 expedition so he's young he's eager he's
 
 00:22:13.368 --> 00:22:15.309
 ambitious interestingly enough though you
 
 00:22:15.329 --> 00:22:16.911
 know he's an interesting choice for this
 
 00:22:16.951 --> 00:22:17.231
 because
 
 00:22:17.991 --> 00:22:18.551
 To my knowledge,
 
 00:22:18.571 --> 00:22:20.134
 he has no experience with New York.
 
 00:22:21.213 --> 00:22:22.414
 He's a Boston boy.
 
 00:22:23.395 --> 00:22:26.958
 And this is really outside of his world
 
 00:22:26.998 --> 00:22:27.778
 in some ways.
 
 00:22:28.118 --> 00:22:29.440
 And I think it is important to remember
 
 00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:31.480
 alongside this that Knox has given his
 
 00:22:31.520 --> 00:22:32.021
 instructions.
 
 00:22:32.041 --> 00:22:33.122
 And on the same day,
 
 00:22:33.423 --> 00:22:35.084
 Washington pens another set of
 
 00:22:35.124 --> 00:22:37.144
 instructions to Major General Philip
 
 00:22:37.184 --> 00:22:37.605
 Schuyler,
 
 00:22:37.865 --> 00:22:38.885
 who's in command of the Northern
 
 00:22:38.905 --> 00:22:39.946
 Department of the Continental Army,
 
 00:22:40.027 --> 00:22:41.188
 which basically says,
 
 00:22:41.768 --> 00:22:43.609
 get stuff ready and help him out.
 
 00:22:44.210 --> 00:22:46.111
 So Knox is going to lean throughout this
 
 00:22:46.171 --> 00:22:48.252
 expedition on Schuyler's, you know,
 
 00:22:48.292 --> 00:22:50.354
 both kind of commanding presence,
 
 00:22:50.713 --> 00:22:52.015
 both militarily and socially,
 
 00:22:52.295 --> 00:22:54.737
 but also his understanding of the region
 
 00:22:54.777 --> 00:22:55.616
 and of the area.
 
 00:22:56.258 --> 00:22:57.979
 And another thing that we often forget is
 
 00:22:57.999 --> 00:23:00.320
 that Knox first does not go directly to
 
 00:23:00.340 --> 00:23:00.961
 Ticonderoga.
 
 00:23:01.020 --> 00:23:02.102
 He goes to New York City.
 
 00:23:03.163 --> 00:23:04.384
 um because they're trying to see what's
 
 00:23:04.423 --> 00:23:07.125
 there that they might use he doesn't find
 
 00:23:07.287 --> 00:23:08.988
 as much success there I think in no
 
 00:23:09.028 --> 00:23:10.630
 small part because New York is trying to
 
 00:23:10.650 --> 00:23:13.011
 fortify itself right speaking out its
 
 00:23:13.092 --> 00:23:15.795
 Revolutionary government and defense but
 
 00:23:15.835 --> 00:23:17.596
 he makes some introductions he's able to
 
 00:23:17.616 --> 00:23:19.459
 go shopping a bit which he writes about
 
 00:23:20.038 --> 00:23:21.381
 um and he he leaves New York which
 
 00:23:21.401 --> 00:23:22.602
 he's recently married
 
 00:23:22.801 --> 00:23:23.982
 Yeah, exactly.
 
 00:23:24.682 --> 00:23:26.443
 With a couple of interesting notes.
 
 00:23:27.144 --> 00:23:28.704
 One of the things that he notes in
 
 00:23:28.724 --> 00:23:29.444
 his diary,
 
 00:23:30.285 --> 00:23:31.645
 he makes a little memorandum of things to
 
 00:23:31.685 --> 00:23:32.046
 buy,
 
 00:23:32.346 --> 00:23:33.547
 is he wants to buy a print of
 
 00:23:33.567 --> 00:23:34.606
 the death of Wolfe,
 
 00:23:35.007 --> 00:23:36.508
 which I find captivating.
 
 00:23:36.907 --> 00:23:38.108
 That, you know, he is,
 
 00:23:38.709 --> 00:23:40.308
 we're still in a world where these are
 
 00:23:40.390 --> 00:23:41.609
 British Americans.
 
 00:23:42.430 --> 00:23:43.830
 And James Wolfe, you know,
 
 00:23:43.891 --> 00:23:45.271
 who wins the Battle of Quebec against the
 
 00:23:45.291 --> 00:23:45.571
 French,
 
 00:23:45.612 --> 00:23:48.153
 is still such an iconic figure in the
 
 00:23:48.212 --> 00:23:50.173
 creation of this broader British American
 
 00:23:50.232 --> 00:23:51.554
 empire that Knox,
 
 00:23:51.574 --> 00:23:53.295
 who is actively on a mission to get
 
 00:23:53.335 --> 00:23:55.355
 cannon to bombard the British army,
 
 00:23:55.955 --> 00:23:58.435
 still feels compelled to have a print of
 
 00:23:58.496 --> 00:24:00.057
 this particular event and individual.
 
 00:24:00.817 --> 00:24:03.057
 He also leaves probably the most timeless
 
 00:24:03.137 --> 00:24:04.638
 piece of text from the Revolutionary War
 
 00:24:04.679 --> 00:24:06.419
 as he heads out of New York City
 
 00:24:06.499 --> 00:24:06.740
 saying,
 
 00:24:06.779 --> 00:24:08.299
 I'm very glad to leave as it is
 
 00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:11.101
 very expensive here and reminds us that
 
 00:24:11.141 --> 00:24:12.342
 some things have not changed.
 
 00:24:12.521 --> 00:24:13.281
 That's right.
 
 00:24:13.561 --> 00:24:14.501
 years.
 
 00:24:14.521 --> 00:24:16.282
 So he then goes up the Hudson Valley.
 
 00:24:16.782 --> 00:24:18.083
 By the way, Matt, who's he with?
 
 00:24:18.103 --> 00:24:20.523
 Does he have a retinue?
 
 00:24:21.163 --> 00:24:21.443
 Yeah,
 
 00:24:21.663 --> 00:24:22.984
 so he doesn't have a lot with him.
 
 00:24:23.125 --> 00:24:24.605
 He's given a thousand dollars by
 
 00:24:24.664 --> 00:24:26.965
 Washington to accomplish this mission and
 
 00:24:27.365 --> 00:24:28.967
 really sets out just with his brother
 
 00:24:29.007 --> 00:24:30.666
 William, his younger brother.
 
 00:24:30.926 --> 00:24:31.846
 So he doesn't have,
 
 00:24:31.886 --> 00:24:33.167
 and I think this is important to remember,
 
 00:24:33.468 --> 00:24:35.709
 he doesn't have a coterie of soldiers.
 
 00:24:36.088 --> 00:24:37.969
 He doesn't have a unit with him.
 
 00:24:38.269 --> 00:24:39.750
 He has no military command
 
 00:24:40.490 --> 00:24:42.290
 Yet his commission,
 
 00:24:42.310 --> 00:24:43.451
 his appointment as colonel of the
 
 00:24:43.490 --> 00:24:45.731
 artillery actually comes while he's on
 
 00:24:45.771 --> 00:24:46.752
 this expedition.
 
 00:24:47.553 --> 00:24:49.314
 And some people later give him the
 
 00:24:49.334 --> 00:24:51.414
 honorific of colonel while this is all
 
 00:24:51.454 --> 00:24:52.015
 underway.
 
 00:24:52.795 --> 00:24:54.056
 But he doesn't actually get his commission
 
 00:24:54.115 --> 00:24:55.215
 in hand until he gets back to
 
 00:24:55.256 --> 00:24:56.037
 Massachusetts.
 
 00:24:56.497 --> 00:24:58.217
 So he's basically on his own.
 
 00:24:58.257 --> 00:24:59.557
 He's meeting with other Continental
 
 00:24:59.597 --> 00:25:00.698
 officials in New York.
 
 00:25:03.320 --> 00:25:05.383
 Colonel McDougal in New York and other
 
 00:25:05.443 --> 00:25:06.003
 officers.
 
 00:25:06.285 --> 00:25:07.645
 Of course, as he gets further north,
 
 00:25:08.007 --> 00:25:10.770
 it's Philip Schuyler and Colonel James
 
 00:25:10.830 --> 00:25:12.752
 Holmes, who's in command at Ticonderoga.
 
 00:25:13.574 --> 00:25:14.976
 So him and William head northward up the
 
 00:25:15.016 --> 00:25:17.318
 Hudson and then down the...
 
 00:25:18.721 --> 00:25:21.384
 Lake Champlain Valley to Ticonderoga,
 
 00:25:21.584 --> 00:25:24.105
 where he arrives on December fifth to
 
 00:25:24.125 --> 00:25:24.946
 Ticonderoga.
 
 00:25:25.366 --> 00:25:28.390
 And Knox himself does not have to do
 
 00:25:28.410 --> 00:25:30.951
 the work of entirely saying,
 
 00:25:31.011 --> 00:25:32.093
 I want this gun and this gun and
 
 00:25:32.113 --> 00:25:32.874
 this gun and this gun,
 
 00:25:33.134 --> 00:25:35.155
 because Schuyler has already instructed
 
 00:25:35.195 --> 00:25:37.577
 the garrison at Ticonderoga to start that
 
 00:25:37.637 --> 00:25:38.179
 process.
 
 00:25:38.739 --> 00:25:39.519
 And again,
 
 00:25:39.538 --> 00:25:42.721
 going back even to the spring after Fort
 
 00:25:42.740 --> 00:25:44.221
 Ticonderoga was captured,
 
 00:25:44.921 --> 00:25:47.622
 Congress orders the cannon southwards.
 
 00:25:47.883 --> 00:25:49.603
 That doesn't seem to have ever fully been
 
 00:25:49.643 --> 00:25:51.384
 accomplished for a host of reasons.
 
 00:25:52.223 --> 00:25:54.244
 The strategic initiative shifts.
 
 00:25:54.565 --> 00:25:56.266
 They look towards Canada eventually.
 
 00:25:57.066 --> 00:25:57.865
 And by August,
 
 00:25:57.885 --> 00:25:59.307
 they're launching an invasion of Canada.
 
 00:25:59.767 --> 00:26:02.449
 But Benedict Arnold had actually started
 
 00:26:02.608 --> 00:26:04.890
 in late May and June to get cannon
 
 00:26:04.950 --> 00:26:06.510
 moving from Crown Point,
 
 00:26:06.530 --> 00:26:08.932
 from Ticonderoga southward and then to
 
 00:26:08.992 --> 00:26:10.913
 Fort George to start that process.
 
 00:26:11.114 --> 00:26:12.674
 He didn't have the manpower or the time
 
 00:26:12.974 --> 00:26:13.776
 to finish it,
 
 00:26:14.096 --> 00:26:15.155
 but a little bit of that had been
 
 00:26:15.195 --> 00:26:15.436
 done.
 
 00:26:15.537 --> 00:26:17.657
 And some of his accounting also identified
 
 00:26:18.739 --> 00:26:20.599
 of the two hundred or so guns that
 
 00:26:20.619 --> 00:26:20.940
 were here,
 
 00:26:20.980 --> 00:26:22.401
 depending on how we classify them,
 
 00:26:22.740 --> 00:26:24.241
 which ones were actually good and which
 
 00:26:24.301 --> 00:26:26.722
 ones were simply for further use because
 
 00:26:26.863 --> 00:26:28.304
 some of them had been laying out for
 
 00:26:28.544 --> 00:26:29.045
 so long.
 
 00:26:29.545 --> 00:26:32.007
 but Schuyler's men at Ticonderoga who are
 
 00:26:32.047 --> 00:26:35.269
 largely New York Continentals were able to
 
 00:26:35.308 --> 00:26:36.489
 do some of that work they're able to
 
 00:26:36.569 --> 00:26:38.451
 not only move some guns from Crown Point
 
 00:26:38.471 --> 00:26:40.951
 to Ticonderoga move some guns out of
 
 00:26:41.011 --> 00:26:43.973
 Ticonderoga the fort to the various kind
 
 00:26:43.993 --> 00:26:46.236
 of staging points along their way to the
 
 00:26:46.276 --> 00:26:47.576
 northern end of Lake George where they
 
 00:26:47.596 --> 00:26:49.017
 would it would make the first leg of
 
 00:26:49.037 --> 00:26:51.759
 their journey really by water so Knox's is
 
 00:26:51.878 --> 00:26:53.420
 overseeing in just a matter of days that
 
 00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:54.401
 he's here the kind of
 
 00:26:54.800 --> 00:26:58.503
 final assessment and and selection of
 
 00:26:58.544 --> 00:27:00.325
 those guns but a lot of it had
 
 00:27:00.346 --> 00:27:02.507
 been done before him and and it's
 
 00:27:02.547 --> 00:27:05.430
 interesting that he very much follows both
 
 00:27:05.549 --> 00:27:07.852
 both the spirit and the letter of
 
 00:27:07.912 --> 00:27:09.413
 Washington's instructions because
 
 00:27:09.452 --> 00:27:11.233
 Washington says you know these are vital
 
 00:27:11.273 --> 00:27:14.016
 tools get them from Ticonderoga get them
 
 00:27:14.036 --> 00:27:16.557
 from Crown Point get them from Montreal
 
 00:27:16.578 --> 00:27:18.900
 get them from Quebec if it has fallen
 
 00:27:18.980 --> 00:27:19.621
 to us and
 
 00:27:20.260 --> 00:27:22.083
 The fact that Quebec might have fallen was
 
 00:27:22.262 --> 00:27:22.803
 a possibility.
 
 00:27:22.823 --> 00:27:23.864
 Of course,
 
 00:27:23.983 --> 00:27:25.884
 Arnold had launched his operation up the
 
 00:27:25.924 --> 00:27:26.385
 Kennebec.
 
 00:27:27.145 --> 00:27:28.926
 By the time Knox arrives here,
 
 00:27:29.327 --> 00:27:30.669
 the Continental Army under Richard
 
 00:27:30.709 --> 00:27:32.609
 Montgomery has captured Fort Chambly,
 
 00:27:32.890 --> 00:27:33.810
 Fort Saint-Jean.
 
 00:27:34.010 --> 00:27:36.432
 They've captured Montreal itself and are
 
 00:27:36.472 --> 00:27:37.333
 driving northward.
 
 00:27:37.673 --> 00:27:38.933
 And by the middle of November,
 
 00:27:38.973 --> 00:27:39.815
 they've captured Quebec.
 
 00:27:40.015 --> 00:27:41.715
 almost the entirety of the British Army in
 
 00:27:41.756 --> 00:27:42.176
 Canada.
 
 00:27:43.356 --> 00:27:45.078
 Guns from all of those positions,
 
 00:27:45.098 --> 00:27:47.180
 from Chambly, from Saint-Jean,
 
 00:27:47.220 --> 00:27:49.000
 both in the batteries on the shore and
 
 00:27:49.040 --> 00:27:51.103
 from the vessels they captured in the
 
 00:27:51.143 --> 00:27:53.304
 river, the Royal Savage in particular,
 
 00:27:53.523 --> 00:27:55.665
 they're stripping the better guns from and
 
 00:27:55.726 --> 00:27:57.666
 sending them south to Ticonderoga.
 
 00:27:57.686 --> 00:27:59.387
 Knox is able to select those for the
 
 00:27:59.407 --> 00:28:00.189
 final expedition.
 
 00:28:00.628 --> 00:28:02.592
 So when we talk about the expedition to
 
 00:28:02.632 --> 00:28:03.393
 Ticonderoga,
 
 00:28:03.732 --> 00:28:05.715
 he comes physically to Ticonderoga,
 
 00:28:06.056 --> 00:28:07.337
 but the guns come from there.
 
 00:28:07.557 --> 00:28:08.599
 They come from Crown Point.
 
 00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:09.760
 They come from Saint-Jean.
 
 00:28:09.961 --> 00:28:11.844
 They come from Chambly and even Fort
 
 00:28:11.884 --> 00:28:14.166
 George that are collected from the usable,
 
 00:28:14.207 --> 00:28:16.230
 the best pieces that he can take and
 
 00:28:16.269 --> 00:28:16.931
 bring to Boston.
 
 00:28:17.494 --> 00:28:19.276
 So it's not just that this artillery has
 
 00:28:19.296 --> 00:28:21.017
 been sitting there since the end of the
 
 00:28:21.156 --> 00:28:22.178
 French and Indian War,
 
 00:28:22.238 --> 00:28:24.298
 that this is actually still part of an
 
 00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:26.060
 active military campaign.
 
 00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:27.240
 Yes, yes.
 
 00:28:27.381 --> 00:28:28.221
 And there are, you know,
 
 00:28:28.261 --> 00:28:29.103
 some of the guns, frankly,
 
 00:28:29.123 --> 00:28:31.003
 that are taken at Fort Saint-Jean in
 
 00:28:31.263 --> 00:28:32.884
 Canada on the Richelieu are some of the
 
 00:28:32.904 --> 00:28:34.306
 best guns that Knox takes,
 
 00:28:34.365 --> 00:28:37.028
 particularly some bronze field pieces,
 
 00:28:37.048 --> 00:28:38.188
 some of the lighter artillery.
 
 00:28:39.009 --> 00:28:40.910
 But he's also able to select, again,
 
 00:28:41.170 --> 00:28:43.071
 from guns probably as old as some of
 
 00:28:43.092 --> 00:28:44.372
 the French pieces that were there.
 
 00:28:44.432 --> 00:28:44.732
 In fact,
 
 00:28:45.353 --> 00:28:46.712
 One of the very few guns that we
 
 00:28:46.752 --> 00:28:49.653
 can say with confidence was one of those
 
 00:28:49.693 --> 00:28:52.134
 that Knox took on the expedition is a
 
 00:28:52.194 --> 00:28:53.875
 thirteen inch mortar that we have in our
 
 00:28:53.895 --> 00:28:56.355
 collection here that was actually French.
 
 00:28:56.415 --> 00:28:58.797
 It had fired on Geoffrey Amherst's army in
 
 00:28:58.836 --> 00:28:59.817
 seventeen fifty nine.
 
 00:29:00.397 --> 00:29:03.098
 And it had also been sent northward to
 
 00:29:03.199 --> 00:29:05.578
 support the invasion of Canada,
 
 00:29:05.878 --> 00:29:06.980
 the siege of Saint-Jean,
 
 00:29:07.259 --> 00:29:08.799
 until they ran out of ammunition for it.
 
 00:29:09.079 --> 00:29:10.921
 And then it got sent back to Ticonderoga.
 
 00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:12.821
 So some of these guns have gone here
 
 00:29:12.842 --> 00:29:13.682
 and there and here and there,
 
 00:29:14.483 --> 00:29:16.526
 even within the past few months,
 
 00:29:16.945 --> 00:29:19.448
 not just in the last war.
 
 00:29:19.468 --> 00:29:20.769
 So that particular mortar,
 
 00:29:20.808 --> 00:29:22.451
 it had gone up to Fort St.
 
 00:29:22.550 --> 00:29:22.691
 John,
 
 00:29:22.711 --> 00:29:24.633
 then it comes back and then knocks to
 
 00:29:24.692 --> 00:29:25.814
 that's one that he's going to take to
 
 00:29:25.854 --> 00:29:26.213
 Boston.
 
 00:29:26.808 --> 00:29:28.931
 Yes.
 
 00:29:29.550 --> 00:29:33.054
 It was actually a pair of technically
 
 00:29:33.074 --> 00:29:35.036
 their French twelve pouce mortars,
 
 00:29:35.056 --> 00:29:36.596
 the pouce being the French inch,
 
 00:29:36.616 --> 00:29:38.438
 which is a little bigger than the English
 
 00:29:38.498 --> 00:29:38.618
 inch.
 
 00:29:38.679 --> 00:29:40.359
 So if you measure it with English tools,
 
 00:29:40.460 --> 00:29:41.820
 it's going to be a little over twelve.
 
 00:29:41.840 --> 00:29:42.862
 So they called it thirteen,
 
 00:29:42.882 --> 00:29:44.462
 which is the next equivalent in the
 
 00:29:44.542 --> 00:29:45.203
 English system.
 
 00:29:45.784 --> 00:29:46.964
 And when Knox finds this,
 
 00:29:47.005 --> 00:29:49.125
 this is huge because that's the biggest
 
 00:29:49.165 --> 00:29:50.886
 type of mortar that you have at this
 
 00:29:50.906 --> 00:29:51.527
 time period.
 
 00:29:51.787 --> 00:29:54.067
 And he finds three of them at Ticonderoga,
 
 00:29:54.188 --> 00:29:57.369
 this brace of French ones and one English
 
 00:29:57.410 --> 00:29:58.089
 thirteen-inch mortar.
 
 00:29:58.109 --> 00:29:59.510
 He takes them all to Boston.
 
 00:29:59.990 --> 00:30:00.151
 Now,
 
 00:30:00.191 --> 00:30:01.932
 he might not have had the ammunition he
 
 00:30:01.971 --> 00:30:03.893
 needed for them initially because he
 
 00:30:03.913 --> 00:30:05.453
 didn't expect to find them there.
 
 00:30:05.473 --> 00:30:05.953
 And this, I think,
 
 00:30:06.054 --> 00:30:08.296
 underscores the lack of communication at
 
 00:30:08.316 --> 00:30:10.236
 this point in the war when there's a
 
 00:30:10.336 --> 00:30:10.596
 little...
 
 00:30:11.636 --> 00:30:14.078
 kind of tension between these different
 
 00:30:14.098 --> 00:30:15.000
 colonial entities,
 
 00:30:15.259 --> 00:30:16.882
 Benedict Arnold had identified these
 
 00:30:16.922 --> 00:30:17.301
 mortars.
 
 00:30:17.923 --> 00:30:18.202
 He said,
 
 00:30:18.323 --> 00:30:19.064
 how are we going to get them to
 
 00:30:19.084 --> 00:30:19.564
 Boston?
 
 00:30:20.005 --> 00:30:20.765
 Evidently, though,
 
 00:30:20.964 --> 00:30:23.227
 the information of that never got to Knox
 
 00:30:23.267 --> 00:30:25.769
 before going to Ticonderoga because he's
 
 00:30:25.809 --> 00:30:27.750
 surprised to find them there and has to
 
 00:30:27.790 --> 00:30:29.633
 write to New York to see if they
 
 00:30:29.673 --> 00:30:30.933
 have any ammunition for them.
 
 00:30:31.013 --> 00:30:31.795
 Because, again,
 
 00:30:31.815 --> 00:30:33.056
 they're this French caliber,
 
 00:30:33.155 --> 00:30:34.057
 not the English one.
 
 00:30:34.557 --> 00:30:35.798
 And they've used up most of the shells
 
 00:30:35.817 --> 00:30:37.259
 that they have in the siege of Saint-Jean.
 
 00:30:37.618 --> 00:30:39.881
 So they get to the siege lines outside
 
 00:30:39.901 --> 00:30:40.582
 of Boston.
 
 00:30:40.902 --> 00:30:43.923
 But it appears that it's likely only one
 
 00:30:43.963 --> 00:30:45.884
 of the three mortars of this size they
 
 00:30:45.904 --> 00:30:47.666
 bring into action against the British in
 
 00:30:47.747 --> 00:30:48.186
 March.
 
 00:30:48.586 --> 00:30:50.449
 And it's probably the English mortar
 
 00:30:50.689 --> 00:30:52.089
 because they had ammunition for it,
 
 00:30:52.130 --> 00:30:54.372
 having captured an English supply ship
 
 00:30:54.412 --> 00:30:56.073
 with another thirteen inch mortar,
 
 00:30:56.113 --> 00:30:58.795
 although made of bronze in November of
 
 00:30:58.855 --> 00:31:00.016
 seventeen seventy five.
 
 00:31:00.695 --> 00:31:02.497
 which Knox knew about as he was heading
 
 00:31:02.537 --> 00:31:02.836
 up there.
 
 00:31:02.896 --> 00:31:04.156
 Gates writes to him and says, hey,
 
 00:31:04.176 --> 00:31:05.038
 just want to let you know,
 
 00:31:05.317 --> 00:31:07.137
 we made this great seizure of this British
 
 00:31:07.178 --> 00:31:07.858
 Wordmanship.
 
 00:31:08.118 --> 00:31:09.519
 We've got some excellent weaponry.
 
 00:31:09.798 --> 00:31:11.299
 Don't let that slow you down, though.
 
 00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:12.099
 We still need more.
 
 00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:13.000
 Get what you can.
 
 00:31:14.221 --> 00:31:16.421
 And so the gun makes its way back,
 
 00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:18.422
 this pair of guns makes its way to
 
 00:31:18.481 --> 00:31:19.001
 Boston.
 
 00:31:19.942 --> 00:31:20.823
 And from there,
 
 00:31:20.942 --> 00:31:22.923
 once the siege of Boston is lifted after
 
 00:31:22.963 --> 00:31:23.784
 evacuation,
 
 00:31:24.765 --> 00:31:26.346
 They actually head back to Canada.
 
 00:31:26.885 --> 00:31:28.248
 They're ordered back northward because by
 
 00:31:28.268 --> 00:31:28.728
 that point,
 
 00:31:29.388 --> 00:31:31.671
 an army is in desperate need of battering
 
 00:31:31.730 --> 00:31:33.092
 artillery, not for Boston,
 
 00:31:33.112 --> 00:31:34.512
 but to break the siege of Quebec.
 
 00:31:34.833 --> 00:31:34.972
 Right.
 
 00:31:34.992 --> 00:31:35.834
 And General Thomas,
 
 00:31:35.854 --> 00:31:37.496
 who had overseen placing the guns in
 
 00:31:37.516 --> 00:31:39.676
 Triconderoga, then also goes up to Canada.
 
 00:31:40.337 --> 00:31:40.897
 Exactly.
 
 00:31:40.938 --> 00:31:41.098
 Yeah.
 
 00:31:41.199 --> 00:31:41.439
 Right.
 
 00:31:41.558 --> 00:31:42.460
 Right in the wake of this.
 
 00:31:42.500 --> 00:31:45.382
 And I've read diaries from Massachusetts
 
 00:31:45.402 --> 00:31:45.843
 soldiers.
 
 00:31:46.383 --> 00:31:47.864
 And on March seventeenth,
 
 00:31:48.464 --> 00:31:49.605
 a lot of these soldiers say, well,
 
 00:31:49.625 --> 00:31:50.807
 the British are out of Boston and they
 
 00:31:50.826 --> 00:31:51.847
 get orders to head northward.
 
 00:31:52.127 --> 00:31:53.469
 because the situation in Canada has
 
 00:31:53.528 --> 00:31:56.371
 deteriorated so much by that point.
 
 00:31:56.431 --> 00:32:00.233
 So it's unclear exactly how many guns,
 
 00:32:00.273 --> 00:32:02.194
 but many of the guns that made the
 
 00:32:02.234 --> 00:32:04.317
 trip from Ticonderoga to the American
 
 00:32:04.356 --> 00:32:07.239
 siege lines then make a reverse journey
 
 00:32:07.914 --> 00:32:10.017
 back over Eastern Massachusetts,
 
 00:32:10.356 --> 00:32:11.357
 although diverted a bit,
 
 00:32:11.417 --> 00:32:13.500
 probably up towards Charlestown,
 
 00:32:13.539 --> 00:32:16.122
 Fort number four on the Connecticut River,
 
 00:32:16.541 --> 00:32:18.163
 over the military road to Crown Point,
 
 00:32:18.203 --> 00:32:19.744
 and then by water northwards.
 
 00:32:20.625 --> 00:32:21.746
 It's a portion of the guns,
 
 00:32:21.886 --> 00:32:23.048
 it's not all of them.
 
 00:32:23.667 --> 00:32:25.348
 Because there's still a lot of guns that
 
 00:32:25.368 --> 00:32:25.750
 are left.
 
 00:32:26.089 --> 00:32:28.231
 I've read letters from town fathers in
 
 00:32:28.271 --> 00:32:28.951
 Boston saying, hey,
 
 00:32:28.971 --> 00:32:30.133
 you need to leave us something to be
 
 00:32:30.173 --> 00:32:32.234
 able to defend the port if the British
 
 00:32:32.295 --> 00:32:33.036
 come back again.
 
 00:32:33.976 --> 00:32:35.696
 But all of the guns that were taken
 
 00:32:36.156 --> 00:32:37.998
 get dispersed with the Continental Army,
 
 00:32:38.038 --> 00:32:39.278
 some heading north to Canada,
 
 00:32:39.598 --> 00:32:41.378
 some heading south with Washington and his
 
 00:32:41.439 --> 00:32:44.000
 main army towards New York.
 
 00:32:44.020 --> 00:32:45.540
 We're talking with Dr. Matthew Kegel,
 
 00:32:45.560 --> 00:32:47.741
 who is the curator at Fort Ticonderoga,
 
 00:32:47.761 --> 00:32:50.423
 where he's responsible for research and
 
 00:32:50.542 --> 00:32:52.124
 acquisition and development of their
 
 00:32:52.163 --> 00:32:52.723
 collection,
 
 00:32:52.743 --> 00:32:54.424
 the tremendous collection of
 
 00:32:55.070 --> 00:32:57.232
 not only canon, but other things.
 
 00:32:57.472 --> 00:32:59.834
 And it also supervises the great
 
 00:32:59.894 --> 00:33:00.914
 exhibitions they have,
 
 00:33:01.055 --> 00:33:03.957
 which have won awards from various museum
 
 00:33:03.997 --> 00:33:06.098
 associations for terrific exhibits.
 
 00:33:06.298 --> 00:33:08.220
 And I know you do teacher workshops,
 
 00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:10.241
 you do all kinds of other exciting things.
 
 00:33:12.222 --> 00:33:14.384
 And then let's just talk about Knoxville,
 
 00:33:14.404 --> 00:33:15.806
 because here he's gotten there,
 
 00:33:15.846 --> 00:33:16.705
 there are the guns there.
 
 00:33:17.106 --> 00:33:19.188
 So physically, how is,
 
 00:33:19.548 --> 00:33:20.348
 are he and his brother
 
 00:33:21.479 --> 00:33:24.640
 gonna get these guns to Boston.
 
 00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:25.701
 Yeah,
 
 00:33:25.760 --> 00:33:26.621
 so he's got a lot of ground to
 
 00:33:26.661 --> 00:33:27.721
 cover, obviously.
 
 00:33:28.520 --> 00:33:29.801
 And it's interesting because there are,
 
 00:33:29.821 --> 00:33:31.221
 you know,
 
 00:33:31.481 --> 00:33:33.383
 we can identify probably at least three
 
 00:33:33.442 --> 00:33:34.943
 distinct phases, I think,
 
 00:33:35.463 --> 00:33:36.423
 of this operation.
 
 00:33:36.864 --> 00:33:40.285
 The first being basically from Ticonderoga
 
 00:33:40.404 --> 00:33:42.586
 to the southern end of Lake George,
 
 00:33:42.865 --> 00:33:45.866
 when the transportation work is largely in
 
 00:33:45.906 --> 00:33:47.448
 the hands of the Continental Army because
 
 00:33:47.468 --> 00:33:48.548
 there are garrisons here.
 
 00:33:49.107 --> 00:33:51.369
 Because although Ticonderoga is no longer
 
 00:33:51.410 --> 00:33:52.269
 the front line,
 
 00:33:52.691 --> 00:33:54.951
 it's this vital node on the network of
 
 00:33:55.011 --> 00:33:56.953
 resupply and of moving troops and material
 
 00:33:57.013 --> 00:33:58.255
 northward to Canada now.
 
 00:33:58.694 --> 00:34:00.036
 So there's a continental garrison.
 
 00:34:00.316 --> 00:34:01.757
 The soldiers are there to help him.
 
 00:34:01.817 --> 00:34:03.719
 Some of the money that Knox has,
 
 00:34:04.038 --> 00:34:07.000
 he doles out to their officers to pay
 
 00:34:07.020 --> 00:34:08.461
 these men for the work that they have
 
 00:34:08.501 --> 00:34:10.202
 done transporting guns,
 
 00:34:10.664 --> 00:34:12.784
 basically hoisting them off the ground
 
 00:34:12.945 --> 00:34:14.806
 onto wagons, carts, and sleds,
 
 00:34:14.907 --> 00:34:16.307
 moving them across the
 
 00:34:16.628 --> 00:34:18.768
 the portage from Lake Champlain to Lake
 
 00:34:18.789 --> 00:34:19.168
 George,
 
 00:34:19.449 --> 00:34:21.329
 and then loading them in effectively small
 
 00:34:21.369 --> 00:34:23.630
 boats to go across Lake George.
 
 00:34:24.329 --> 00:34:25.050
 And it takes, you know,
 
 00:34:25.090 --> 00:34:26.811
 multiple trips for the volume of guns.
 
 00:34:27.510 --> 00:34:28.612
 One of the vessels, you know,
 
 00:34:28.952 --> 00:34:31.012
 basically founders and starts to sink.
 
 00:34:31.251 --> 00:34:32.672
 They have to raise her up again.
 
 00:34:33.733 --> 00:34:35.574
 And they're racing against the weather,
 
 00:34:35.634 --> 00:34:35.853
 too,
 
 00:34:35.873 --> 00:34:36.333
 because it's
 
 00:34:36.414 --> 00:34:37.655
 getting increasingly cold.
 
 00:34:37.936 --> 00:34:39.217
 By the time some of the last boats
 
 00:34:39.277 --> 00:34:41.518
 come into the end of Lake George,
 
 00:34:41.539 --> 00:34:42.559
 where Fort George is,
 
 00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:44.442
 the ice is starting to form on the
 
 00:34:44.481 --> 00:34:45.282
 surface of the lake.
 
 00:34:45.623 --> 00:34:47.164
 And so if that had fully frozen,
 
 00:34:47.184 --> 00:34:48.606
 it would have changed the calculus of how
 
 00:34:48.646 --> 00:34:50.369
 they move, made it a lot harder.
 
 00:34:50.409 --> 00:34:51.769
 It's obviously a lot easier to move heavy
 
 00:34:51.809 --> 00:34:53.652
 commodities over water in floating
 
 00:34:53.692 --> 00:34:54.152
 vessels.
 
 00:34:54.833 --> 00:34:55.753
 than it is otherwise.
 
 00:34:56.052 --> 00:34:57.733
 And then the guns get dropped off at
 
 00:34:57.753 --> 00:34:58.333
 Fort George.
 
 00:34:58.594 --> 00:35:00.273
 But it's important to remember that south
 
 00:35:00.333 --> 00:35:01.094
 of Fort George,
 
 00:35:01.474 --> 00:35:05.175
 there is a very limited military presence.
 
 00:35:05.554 --> 00:35:05.735
 You know,
 
 00:35:05.755 --> 00:35:07.956
 you don't have Continental Army garrisons
 
 00:35:07.996 --> 00:35:10.496
 the same way because the manpower is so
 
 00:35:10.556 --> 00:35:12.036
 slim and it's so needed to support the
 
 00:35:12.077 --> 00:35:12.556
 invasion.
 
 00:35:13.277 --> 00:35:15.336
 There's some officers and such in Albany
 
 00:35:15.376 --> 00:35:15.896
 and elsewhere,
 
 00:35:16.197 --> 00:35:17.398
 but it's not like you have the same
 
 00:35:17.458 --> 00:35:18.777
 amount of garrisons that can support this
 
 00:35:18.838 --> 00:35:19.057
 work.
 
 00:35:19.458 --> 00:35:19.938
 There,
 
 00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:23.440
 Knox needs to get civilians to assist with
 
 00:35:23.460 --> 00:35:23.641
 this.
 
 00:35:24.181 --> 00:35:25.722
 The second phase of this begins,
 
 00:35:26.202 --> 00:35:27.222
 what we might see is one of the
 
 00:35:27.242 --> 00:35:30.925
 greatest public private collaborations in
 
 00:35:30.965 --> 00:35:32.706
 American military history because he
 
 00:35:32.766 --> 00:35:34.266
 relies on civilians.
 
 00:35:34.887 --> 00:35:37.289
 This is also where Philip Schuyler really
 
 00:35:37.329 --> 00:35:40.331
 comes into play here because Schuyler
 
 00:35:40.733 --> 00:35:41.813
 knows the area.
 
 00:35:42.054 --> 00:35:44.096
 Knox had started to make negotiations with
 
 00:35:44.135 --> 00:35:46.418
 locals about making sleds and getting ox
 
 00:35:46.438 --> 00:35:47.418
 teams and everything else.
 
 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:48.681
 And Schuyler says, no, no, no,
 
 00:35:48.701 --> 00:35:49.061
 you don't need it.
 
 00:35:49.081 --> 00:35:50.262
 There's plenty of, you know,
 
 00:35:51.362 --> 00:35:52.063
 flesh, horse,
 
 00:35:52.083 --> 00:35:53.664
 flesh and ox flesh out there.
 
 00:35:53.884 --> 00:35:54.985
 There's plenty of vehicles.
 
 00:35:55.244 --> 00:35:56.505
 You just need to know where to get
 
 00:35:56.565 --> 00:35:56.644
 it.
 
 00:35:56.744 --> 00:35:57.726
 And I can do that.
 
 00:35:57.846 --> 00:35:58.905
 Let me help you with this.
 
 00:35:59.827 --> 00:36:02.108
 So he's able to set his network in
 
 00:36:02.168 --> 00:36:03.628
 motion through some of the continental
 
 00:36:03.668 --> 00:36:05.088
 commissary officers in Albany,
 
 00:36:05.128 --> 00:36:07.449
 but also just the local community to get
 
 00:36:07.510 --> 00:36:08.250
 them on board,
 
 00:36:08.289 --> 00:36:10.510
 to get them hired for this effort.
 
 00:36:10.992 --> 00:36:11.211
 And then
 
 00:36:12.132 --> 00:36:13.333
 On top of that as well,
 
 00:36:13.592 --> 00:36:15.673
 you've got the matter of the weather.
 
 00:36:15.713 --> 00:36:18.675
 This is where our image of the snow
 
 00:36:18.715 --> 00:36:21.177
 covering the landscape is actually a
 
 00:36:21.237 --> 00:36:23.038
 problem for him because there's not yet
 
 00:36:23.217 --> 00:36:26.739
 enough snow to create that dense bed that
 
 00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:29.402
 you can slide all these heavy things over.
 
 00:36:29.442 --> 00:36:31.043
 Then when the first snows seem to come,
 
 00:36:31.322 --> 00:36:33.103
 they're really deep and he has trouble
 
 00:36:33.143 --> 00:36:35.125
 even riding his horse to get further south
 
 00:36:35.644 --> 00:36:36.565
 to talk to Skylar.
 
 00:36:37.045 --> 00:36:39.126
 And so he's consistently dealing with the
 
 00:36:39.166 --> 00:36:39.527
 weather.
 
 00:36:40.246 --> 00:36:42.626
 He's effectively becalmed at Fort George
 
 00:36:42.686 --> 00:36:44.307
 for a few weeks,
 
 00:36:44.947 --> 00:36:46.887
 trying to get all of these things ironed
 
 00:36:47.007 --> 00:36:49.268
 out before they can kick this into motion.
 
 00:36:49.628 --> 00:36:51.969
 And they've contracted with these civilian
 
 00:36:51.989 --> 00:36:54.429
 teamsters who begin this journey headed
 
 00:36:54.510 --> 00:36:55.090
 southwards,
 
 00:36:55.170 --> 00:36:56.809
 where one of the biggest things they have
 
 00:36:56.849 --> 00:36:58.389
 to deal with on the New York leg
 
 00:36:58.429 --> 00:37:00.411
 of this is crossing bodies of water,
 
 00:37:00.570 --> 00:37:01.831
 the Mohawk and the Hudson.
 
 00:37:02.791 --> 00:37:05.811
 And Schuyler issues explicit instructions
 
 00:37:06.211 --> 00:37:08.353
 to those who are seeing you know going
 
 00:37:08.393 --> 00:37:11.034
 ahead of knox and helping the operation to
 
 00:37:11.074 --> 00:37:12.596
 make sure that you know when they get
 
 00:37:12.615 --> 00:37:14.097
 to a body of water you know the
 
 00:37:14.157 --> 00:37:17.179
 night before drill through the ice flood
 
 00:37:17.219 --> 00:37:19.880
 the ice to let it freeze overnight to
 
 00:37:19.900 --> 00:37:22.161
 get thicker and harder because some of the
 
 00:37:22.181 --> 00:37:24.302
 guns that knox is moving are you know
 
 00:37:24.822 --> 00:37:28.744
 two plus tons in weight a piece right
 
 00:37:28.784 --> 00:37:30.525
 collectively we're talking sixty tons but
 
 00:37:30.545 --> 00:37:31.967
 some of the individual cannons are
 
 00:37:32.007 --> 00:37:32.728
 multiple tons
 
 00:37:33.829 --> 00:37:34.068
 Amazing.
 
 00:37:34.230 --> 00:37:35.411
 It's a massive effort.
 
 00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:39.380
 It requires this network of people working
 
 00:37:39.500 --> 00:37:39.840
 ahead.
 
 00:37:40.059 --> 00:37:41.621
 Knox is often riding ahead of this
 
 00:37:41.681 --> 00:37:43.240
 expedition to meet up with the next people
 
 00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:43.782
 involved.
 
 00:37:45.922 --> 00:37:48.003
 He loses a couple guns through the ice.
 
 00:37:49.063 --> 00:37:50.903
 One of them falls through the Mohawk River
 
 00:37:51.023 --> 00:37:52.065
 and is never recovered.
 
 00:37:52.905 --> 00:37:53.385
 Eventually,
 
 00:37:53.425 --> 00:37:56.967
 they develop a protocol to basically have
 
 00:37:57.166 --> 00:37:57.626
 a system.
 
 00:37:57.646 --> 00:37:59.088
 When you're crossing a river,
 
 00:37:59.568 --> 00:38:01.548
 you want your sleds that the guns are
 
 00:38:01.608 --> 00:38:04.889
 mounted on attached to a longer lead rope.
 
 00:38:05.730 --> 00:38:07.811
 um and have log chains available so that
 
 00:38:08.172 --> 00:38:10.552
 if the gun starts to crack and it
 
 00:38:10.612 --> 00:38:12.773
 starts to go through the ice you can
 
 00:38:12.793 --> 00:38:14.255
 have your teamster who's got an axe in
 
 00:38:14.275 --> 00:38:16.295
 his hand cut that rope tie it to
 
 00:38:16.496 --> 00:38:18.356
 a stick or a log or something which
 
 00:38:18.376 --> 00:38:21.077
 can act as a buoy basically to identify
 
 00:38:21.117 --> 00:38:23.418
 the location of that gun but it's also
 
 00:38:23.478 --> 00:38:26.541
 long enough of a lead line that it's
 
 00:38:26.581 --> 00:38:28.262
 not going to drag the draft animals
 
 00:38:28.521 --> 00:38:28.722
 Right.
 
 00:38:28.942 --> 00:38:29.842
 Underwater with it.
 
 00:38:30.143 --> 00:38:31.724
 And then you lose the gun and you
 
 00:38:31.764 --> 00:38:34.827
 lose that force that you have.
 
 00:38:35.347 --> 00:38:37.228
 And by the time they get to crossing
 
 00:38:37.289 --> 00:38:38.530
 the Hudson near Albany,
 
 00:38:39.150 --> 00:38:40.570
 one of the biggest guns on the entire
 
 00:38:40.630 --> 00:38:42.333
 expedition goes through the ice.
 
 00:38:42.632 --> 00:38:44.494
 But because they have this in place,
 
 00:38:44.873 --> 00:38:45.494
 they're able to,
 
 00:38:45.534 --> 00:38:48.277
 with the physical help of the citizens of
 
 00:38:48.376 --> 00:38:50.579
 Albany, pull this gun out of the river.
 
 00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:53.121
 and salvage it and and knox writes that
 
 00:38:53.262 --> 00:38:54.983
 in in this you know because of this
 
 00:38:55.344 --> 00:38:56.786
 that gun is given the honor of being
 
 00:38:56.826 --> 00:39:00.610
 named the albany um of the patriotic
 
 00:39:00.630 --> 00:39:02.233
 people of the city that came out to
 
 00:39:02.273 --> 00:39:04.777
 save it it's amazing we're talking with dr
 
 00:39:04.817 --> 00:39:07.059
 matthew kegel from fort ticonderoga he is
 
 00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:09.481
 the curator we're talking about henry knox
 
 00:39:09.521 --> 00:39:09.742
 and this
 
 00:39:10.190 --> 00:39:12.092
 noble train of artillery he writes that in
 
 00:39:12.112 --> 00:39:13.972
 the letter to washington in i think the
 
 00:39:14.012 --> 00:39:15.753
 second week of december saying within two
 
 00:39:15.793 --> 00:39:18.114
 weeks i will deliver to your excellency a
 
 00:39:18.193 --> 00:39:21.114
 noble trainer he's optimistic but then yes
 
 00:39:21.195 --> 00:39:22.456
 he does get it done this must have
 
 00:39:22.476 --> 00:39:25.456
 been such a thing to see these guns
 
 00:39:25.476 --> 00:39:28.157
 the wagons the draft animals making this
 
 00:39:28.217 --> 00:39:29.958
 procession through new york and then
 
 00:39:32.001 --> 00:39:32.201
 Yeah.
 
 00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:32.862
 And we, you know,
 
 00:39:32.882 --> 00:39:35.083
 we get very kind of, you know,
 
 00:39:35.623 --> 00:39:38.126
 explicit accounts of this by the time the
 
 00:39:38.206 --> 00:39:39.807
 third leg begins,
 
 00:39:39.847 --> 00:39:41.550
 because by the time this expedition gets
 
 00:39:41.590 --> 00:39:42.230
 to Westfield,
 
 00:39:42.269 --> 00:39:43.471
 Springfield and Massachusetts,
 
 00:39:43.751 --> 00:39:44.813
 they drop the guns off.
 
 00:39:45.012 --> 00:39:46.253
 These are all New York teamsters.
 
 00:39:46.313 --> 00:39:47.074
 We're headed back home.
 
 00:39:47.414 --> 00:39:47.954
 Yeah.
 
 00:39:47.974 --> 00:39:49.295
 The last leg has to be picked up
 
 00:39:49.315 --> 00:39:50.195
 in Massachusetts.
 
 00:39:50.556 --> 00:39:52.117
 And in those towns, you know,
 
 00:39:53.396 --> 00:39:54.737
 the little information we have from
 
 00:39:55.018 --> 00:39:56.117
 participants, you know,
 
 00:39:56.157 --> 00:39:57.818
 say that basically everyone is turning out
 
 00:39:57.858 --> 00:39:59.420
 to see this stuff and they, you know,
 
 00:39:59.460 --> 00:40:00.940
 loaded up some powder in some of these
 
 00:40:00.980 --> 00:40:02.561
 and fired them off to give them a,
 
 00:40:02.621 --> 00:40:02.940
 you know,
 
 00:40:03.161 --> 00:40:05.081
 this kind of experience of the rumbling of
 
 00:40:05.121 --> 00:40:06.001
 these guns, which, you know,
 
 00:40:06.021 --> 00:40:07.242
 a lot of these country folk had never
 
 00:40:07.262 --> 00:40:07.802
 seen before.
 
 00:40:07.822 --> 00:40:09.583
 And then by the time, of course,
 
 00:40:09.603 --> 00:40:11.164
 they get to Framingham where they get
 
 00:40:11.264 --> 00:40:12.204
 dropped off.
 
 00:40:12.565 --> 00:40:14.565
 And remember, it's just the barrels.
 
 00:40:14.626 --> 00:40:15.385
 It's just the cannon.
 
 00:40:15.945 --> 00:40:18.146
 It's not their wheels or gun carriages.
 
 00:40:18.407 --> 00:40:19.547
 That all is going to be made in
 
 00:40:19.568 --> 00:40:20.768
 the American siege lines.
 
 00:40:21.289 --> 00:40:22.909
 And, you know, it draws the attention.
 
 00:40:22.929 --> 00:40:25.891
 John Adams goes to see, you know,
 
 00:40:25.951 --> 00:40:28.092
 what's up in this massive volume of
 
 00:40:28.152 --> 00:40:29.532
 artillery that's been brought to
 
 00:40:29.592 --> 00:40:30.512
 Washington's army.
 
 00:40:30.532 --> 00:40:31.592
 Tremendous.
 
 00:40:32.047 --> 00:40:32.168
 Now,
 
 00:40:32.268 --> 00:40:34.052
 I know you were planning a lot of
 
 00:40:34.072 --> 00:40:35.454
 things at Fort Tech-Ondrogan.
 
 00:40:35.474 --> 00:40:38.259
 I know towns and counties in New York
 
 00:40:38.298 --> 00:40:38.418
 have
 
 00:40:38.867 --> 00:40:39.947
 tremendous plans under.
 
 00:40:40.168 --> 00:40:42.309
 So what are you doing at Ticonderoga to
 
 00:40:42.369 --> 00:40:42.869
 commemorate?
 
 00:40:43.730 --> 00:40:45.331
 Well, right here at Ticonderoga,
 
 00:40:45.351 --> 00:40:47.391
 we have effectively three days of events
 
 00:40:47.452 --> 00:40:49.291
 planned to commemorate the beginning of
 
 00:40:49.331 --> 00:40:50.193
 this expedition.
 
 00:40:50.233 --> 00:40:51.333
 This is where it starts.
 
 00:40:52.114 --> 00:40:54.193
 That includes on Friday, December fifth,
 
 00:40:54.273 --> 00:40:55.755
 I'm going to be doing a special program
 
 00:40:55.775 --> 00:40:57.956
 which people can buy tickets for on our
 
 00:40:57.996 --> 00:41:00.237
 website called Ticonderoga's Treasures,
 
 00:41:00.297 --> 00:41:00.956
 Henry Knox.
 
 00:41:01.436 --> 00:41:03.157
 And we're going to pull out for people,
 
 00:41:03.398 --> 00:41:05.059
 give them the opportunity firsthand
 
 00:41:05.458 --> 00:41:08.141
 to see some of the letters and documents
 
 00:41:08.161 --> 00:41:10.563
 in our collection from Benedict Arnold,
 
 00:41:10.583 --> 00:41:12.445
 from Horatio Gates, Philip Schuyler,
 
 00:41:12.606 --> 00:41:15.208
 and Henry Knox that talk about all the
 
 00:41:15.228 --> 00:41:16.188
 things we've been discussing,
 
 00:41:16.228 --> 00:41:17.731
 the lead up to this expedition,
 
 00:41:17.951 --> 00:41:19.211
 the groundwork that had been laid,
 
 00:41:19.492 --> 00:41:21.014
 and then its operation.
 
 00:41:21.333 --> 00:41:23.994
 We're also going to pull those books from
 
 00:41:24.175 --> 00:41:25.875
 the library that I talked about that Knox
 
 00:41:25.954 --> 00:41:26.534
 recommended,
 
 00:41:26.635 --> 00:41:29.235
 where we can literally see the body of
 
 00:41:29.295 --> 00:41:31.916
 knowledge that Henry Knox recommended to
 
 00:41:31.996 --> 00:41:34.577
 Continental officers to train them to be
 
 00:41:34.637 --> 00:41:36.297
 soldiers during the Revolutionary War.
 
 00:41:36.737 --> 00:41:37.737
 And again,
 
 00:41:37.858 --> 00:41:41.378
 I'll be able to firsthand bring people to
 
 00:41:41.639 --> 00:41:42.679
 this one,
 
 00:41:42.739 --> 00:41:44.239
 thirteen inch mortar that we have that was
 
 00:41:44.340 --> 00:41:46.679
 part of that expedition and discuss some
 
 00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:48.019
 of the artillery in our collection that
 
 00:41:48.059 --> 00:41:49.701
 relates to Knox's experience.
 
 00:41:50.561 --> 00:41:52.083
 this is also something that can be done
 
 00:41:52.143 --> 00:41:53.545
 remotely so you can sign up for a
 
 00:41:53.605 --> 00:41:55.306
 virtual ticket for this it's not quite as
 
 00:41:55.327 --> 00:41:56.989
 good as being in the same room but
 
 00:41:57.128 --> 00:41:58.449
 it'll give you a chance in real time
 
 00:41:58.489 --> 00:42:00.052
 to have this conversation with me and to
 
 00:42:00.092 --> 00:42:03.896
 see all these objects on december sixth is
 
 00:42:03.936 --> 00:42:05.778
 our living history recreation of the first
 
 00:42:05.818 --> 00:42:06.599
 leg of this journey
 
 00:42:06.980 --> 00:42:08.581
 So my colleagues in our public history
 
 00:42:08.601 --> 00:42:11.402
 department will be portraying mostly
 
 00:42:11.481 --> 00:42:13.943
 soldiers of the First and Fourth New York
 
 00:42:14.003 --> 00:42:15.943
 regiments who are the garrison here.
 
 00:42:16.543 --> 00:42:18.284
 We are going to be using some of
 
 00:42:18.324 --> 00:42:20.485
 the historic equipment and tools that they
 
 00:42:20.505 --> 00:42:22.507
 would have been doing to dismount,
 
 00:42:22.706 --> 00:42:24.827
 hoist up and reload
 
 00:42:25.947 --> 00:42:27.809
 close to half a dozen reproduction
 
 00:42:27.869 --> 00:42:30.550
 artillery pieces and then start them
 
 00:42:30.610 --> 00:42:33.751
 moving with oxen and horses along the
 
 00:42:33.791 --> 00:42:34.311
 expedition.
 
 00:42:34.452 --> 00:42:37.193
 Also going through the process of scaling
 
 00:42:37.333 --> 00:42:38.594
 guns, which is something you do,
 
 00:42:38.614 --> 00:42:39.755
 particularly iron cannons,
 
 00:42:39.775 --> 00:42:41.516
 kind of shake out the rust inside to
 
 00:42:41.635 --> 00:42:42.177
 get them ready.
 
 00:42:43.257 --> 00:42:44.036
 And, you know,
 
 00:42:44.057 --> 00:42:45.438
 it'll give you some of that rumbling that
 
 00:42:45.478 --> 00:42:46.938
 the people would have experienced back in
 
 00:42:46.978 --> 00:42:48.059
 seventeen seventy five.
 
 00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:49.679
 And then we'll load them up,
 
 00:42:50.101 --> 00:42:52.442
 really going through all of the
 
 00:42:53.021 --> 00:42:55.083
 manual labor that quite literally heavy
 
 00:42:55.143 --> 00:42:57.106
 lifting that the criminals did here at
 
 00:42:57.146 --> 00:43:01.510
 Ticonderoga and then on Sunday those draft
 
 00:43:01.550 --> 00:43:04.152
 animals those gun tubes and others will be
 
 00:43:04.193 --> 00:43:06.094
 making the trek through the town of
 
 00:43:06.135 --> 00:43:09.277
 Ticonderoga from the fort all the way to
 
 00:43:09.297 --> 00:43:11.119
 the landing at the northern end of Lake
 
 00:43:11.159 --> 00:43:13.300
 George following the first leg of that
 
 00:43:13.362 --> 00:43:16.143
 journey before other towns and communities
 
 00:43:16.184 --> 00:43:16.885
 to our south
 
 00:43:17.472 --> 00:43:18.873
 um through warren and washington and
 
 00:43:18.914 --> 00:43:21.434
 saratoga and albany um continue that
 
 00:43:21.474 --> 00:43:23.396
 journey and then of course you cross by
 
 00:43:23.416 --> 00:43:24.655
 the time we get into the new year
 
 00:43:25.137 --> 00:43:26.996
 um into massachusetts and all the way to
 
 00:43:27.097 --> 00:43:28.797
 boston you know winding up in march of
 
 00:43:28.838 --> 00:43:31.259
 course in dorchester march seventeenth at
 
 00:43:31.298 --> 00:43:33.920
 south boston at dorchester heights so so
 
 00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:35.740
 the weekend of december fifth sixth and
 
 00:43:35.780 --> 00:43:37.222
 seventh at fort ticonderoga and your
 
 00:43:37.242 --> 00:43:39.362
 website's fort ticonderoga f-o-r-t
 
 00:43:39.422 --> 00:43:41.923
 ticonderoga.org where you can find out
 
 00:43:41.943 --> 00:43:43.545
 about these events the other things you're
 
 00:43:43.565 --> 00:43:43.945
 planning
 
 00:43:44.744 --> 00:43:47.092
 all sounds great a very exciting time and
 
 00:43:47.211 --> 00:43:48.576
 glad you're doing all of this to
 
 00:43:48.635 --> 00:43:50.961
 commemorate it and make it exciting again
 
 00:43:51.586 --> 00:43:52.666
 Yeah, we really are.
 
 00:43:53.288 --> 00:43:56.588
 This is one part of our much broader
 
 00:43:56.628 --> 00:43:57.349
 programs,
 
 00:43:57.449 --> 00:43:59.210
 especially our onsite living history
 
 00:43:59.250 --> 00:44:01.030
 programs called Real Time Revolution,
 
 00:44:01.110 --> 00:44:03.150
 where when you come and visit the fort
 
 00:44:03.690 --> 00:44:05.831
 now and during the two hundred fiftieth
 
 00:44:05.871 --> 00:44:06.251
 anniversary,
 
 00:44:06.311 --> 00:44:07.612
 all the way through twenty twenty seven,
 
 00:44:07.871 --> 00:44:09.632
 you're going to be seeing the soldiers and
 
 00:44:09.672 --> 00:44:11.833
 civilians that were there two hundred and
 
 00:44:11.873 --> 00:44:13.414
 fifty years ago to the month,
 
 00:44:13.713 --> 00:44:15.114
 the week and the day.
 
 00:44:15.855 --> 00:44:17.436
 And Knox is, of course,
 
 00:44:17.898 --> 00:44:19.699
 one of the most significant stories in
 
 00:44:19.739 --> 00:44:21.862
 Fort Ticonderoga's revolutionary history.
 
 00:44:22.262 --> 00:44:24.403
 And it's an incredible bookend to the
 
 00:44:24.465 --> 00:44:26.266
 beginning of the year in May when we
 
 00:44:26.306 --> 00:44:27.867
 commemorated the two hundred fiftieth of
 
 00:44:27.887 --> 00:44:28.548
 the capture of
 
 00:44:30.233 --> 00:44:30.773
 And then, of course,
 
 00:44:31.193 --> 00:44:33.313
 Ticonderoga sees other action during the
 
 00:44:33.333 --> 00:44:33.594
 war,
 
 00:44:33.634 --> 00:44:35.275
 so we'll have to have you back to
 
 00:44:35.315 --> 00:44:37.496
 talk more about what else is happening.
 
 00:44:37.516 --> 00:44:38.496
 What a tremendous place.
 
 00:44:38.556 --> 00:44:40.097
 And Matt Kegel,
 
 00:44:40.717 --> 00:44:42.378
 you've been studying all of this for a
 
 00:44:42.438 --> 00:44:42.797
 long time.
 
 00:44:42.818 --> 00:44:44.938
 I realize you got your senior honors
 
 00:44:44.978 --> 00:44:46.980
 thesis writing about clothing in the
 
 00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:47.800
 eighteenth century,
 
 00:44:47.820 --> 00:44:50.242
 and now your dissertation was on military
 
 00:44:50.342 --> 00:44:52.182
 uniforms in this age of reform.
 
 00:44:52.222 --> 00:44:54.483
 So this is the perfect place for you,
 
 00:44:54.503 --> 00:44:56.585
 and you're the perfect person to be
 
 00:44:57.045 --> 00:44:57.585
 working there.
 
 00:44:58.072 --> 00:44:59.693
 Yeah, I feel very fortunate.
 
 00:45:00.253 --> 00:45:02.596
 All of my professional experience has been
 
 00:45:03.175 --> 00:45:06.119
 in really looking at the material culture
 
 00:45:06.199 --> 00:45:07.539
 of warfare in the eighteenth century,
 
 00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:08.561
 which I think has been a kind of
 
 00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:11.463
 forgotten aspect of broader conversations
 
 00:45:11.503 --> 00:45:13.045
 on material culture, decorative arts,
 
 00:45:13.844 --> 00:45:16.065
 and even history more broadly and bringing
 
 00:45:16.085 --> 00:45:17.326
 that back into the conversation.
 
 00:45:17.365 --> 00:45:19.666
 And there's very few other places that
 
 00:45:19.726 --> 00:45:22.067
 have the volume of this material culture
 
 00:45:22.266 --> 00:45:22.686
 here.
 
 00:45:23.106 --> 00:45:23.387
 Of course,
 
 00:45:23.407 --> 00:45:24.987
 a part of my job ends up being
 
 00:45:25.427 --> 00:45:27.507
 more kind of traditional historical work
 
 00:45:27.688 --> 00:45:30.068
 of things like the Revolutionary War
 
 00:45:30.108 --> 00:45:30.608
 campaigns,
 
 00:45:30.648 --> 00:45:32.108
 Henry Knox's expedition and that kind of
 
 00:45:32.128 --> 00:45:32.329
 thing,
 
 00:45:32.608 --> 00:45:34.128
 but always trying to connect it back to
 
 00:45:34.148 --> 00:45:35.389
 the material because I think it's really
 
 00:45:35.429 --> 00:45:35.750
 important.
 
 00:45:35.769 --> 00:45:38.550
 And I think one thing that I don't
 
 00:45:38.570 --> 00:45:39.849
 know if he expresses it in the time
 
 00:45:39.869 --> 00:45:40.110
 period,
 
 00:45:40.150 --> 00:45:41.690
 but must have been evident to Knox
 
 00:45:42.791 --> 00:45:44.211
 kind of processing what he had
 
 00:45:44.231 --> 00:45:46.552
 accomplished in seventeen seventy five is
 
 00:45:46.592 --> 00:45:48.594
 the realization that you know it would be
 
 00:45:48.614 --> 00:45:50.835
 a lot easier to wage war if we
 
 00:45:50.876 --> 00:45:53.277
 didn't have to rely on you know stealing
 
 00:45:53.456 --> 00:45:55.918
 materiel right if we could manufacture it
 
 00:45:55.978 --> 00:45:58.400
 and of course it is under knox's direction
 
 00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:01.461
 that we see the beginnings of american
 
 00:46:02.081 --> 00:46:04.123
 kind of military industrial uh
 
 00:46:04.483 --> 00:46:06.105
 institutions like springfield arsenal
 
 00:46:06.164 --> 00:46:06.405
 right
 
 00:46:07.324 --> 00:46:09.065
 that set the nation up on its own
 
 00:46:09.106 --> 00:46:11.927
 footing and are really out of military
 
 00:46:11.987 --> 00:46:13.088
 origins in many cases,
 
 00:46:13.489 --> 00:46:16.429
 what ground and develop American industry
 
 00:46:16.449 --> 00:46:18.130
 to make us into the global power that
 
 00:46:18.150 --> 00:46:19.552
 we become by the twentieth century.
 
 00:46:20.172 --> 00:46:20.592
 Exactly.
 
 00:46:20.692 --> 00:46:21.072
 Exactly.
 
 00:46:21.112 --> 00:46:21.952
 This is great.
 
 00:46:21.972 --> 00:46:22.273
 Great.
 
 00:46:23.152 --> 00:46:23.333
 I mean,
 
 00:46:23.373 --> 00:46:24.853
 we could go on all day talking about
 
 00:46:24.893 --> 00:46:26.474
 Henry Knox and talking about all of this.
 
 00:46:26.514 --> 00:46:26.875
 But, you know,
 
 00:46:26.894 --> 00:46:28.755
 you have work to do to get ready
 
 00:46:28.815 --> 00:46:30.177
 for the various events.
 
 00:46:30.217 --> 00:46:32.378
 So so thank you.
 
 00:46:32.418 --> 00:46:34.219
 Is there any last word you wanted to
 
 00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:34.458
 share?
 
 00:46:35.302 --> 00:46:35.782
 Oh, well,
 
 00:46:36.021 --> 00:46:37.463
 we really hope that people come up to
 
 00:46:38.003 --> 00:46:39.523
 see us here at Fort Ticonderoga.
 
 00:46:40.324 --> 00:46:42.224
 We have events going on all winter as
 
 00:46:42.264 --> 00:46:43.885
 part of this real-time revolution program,
 
 00:46:43.925 --> 00:46:45.967
 including Knox and others as we get into
 
 00:46:45.987 --> 00:46:46.547
 the new year.
 
 00:46:46.947 --> 00:46:48.268
 And first weekend in May,
 
 00:46:48.288 --> 00:46:49.708
 we open for daily visitation,
 
 00:46:49.829 --> 00:46:51.849
 and the revolution is an everyday affair
 
 00:46:51.909 --> 00:46:52.710
 here at Ticonderoga.
 
 00:46:52.829 --> 00:46:54.110
 So we hope folks will come out and
 
 00:46:54.130 --> 00:46:54.391
 join us.
 
 00:46:54.411 --> 00:46:54.510
 Great.
 
 00:46:55.190 --> 00:46:55.811
 Thank you so much.
 
 00:46:55.831 --> 00:46:57.692
 We've been talking with Matthew Kegel, Dr.
 
 00:46:57.711 --> 00:46:58.231
 Matt Kegel,
 
 00:46:58.251 --> 00:47:00.773
 who is the curator at Fort Ticonderoga,
 
 00:47:01.213 --> 00:47:04.034
 tremendous place on Lake Champlain.
 
 00:47:04.746 --> 00:47:06.027
 And so thank you so much for joining
 
 00:47:06.067 --> 00:47:06.427
 us, Matt.
 
 00:47:06.447 --> 00:47:07.827
 And thank you to Jonathan Lane,
 
 00:47:07.927 --> 00:47:10.349
 our producer, the man behind the curtain.
 
 00:47:10.949 --> 00:47:12.570
 And I want to thank folks,
 
 00:47:12.670 --> 00:47:13.369
 all of our listeners.
 
 00:47:13.409 --> 00:47:14.710
 Every week we thank folks who are
 
 00:47:14.751 --> 00:47:15.811
 regularly tuning in.
 
 00:47:15.851 --> 00:47:17.791
 And if you're one of these places and
 
 00:47:17.831 --> 00:47:19.472
 want some of our Revolution Two-Fifty
 
 00:47:19.512 --> 00:47:21.193
 swag, send Jonathan an email,
 
 00:47:21.233 --> 00:47:24.134
 jlane at revolution two five zero dot org.
 
 00:47:24.253 --> 00:47:26.775
 And this week I want to thank our
 
 00:47:26.795 --> 00:47:28.034
 listeners in Hanover,
 
 00:47:28.074 --> 00:47:30.615
 Massachusetts and in Cincinnati and
 
 00:47:30.655 --> 00:47:33.097
 Marietta in Ohio, Cordova, Tennessee.
 
 00:47:33.574 --> 00:47:36.097
 Newark, New Jersey, the Bronx, Southpike,
 
 00:47:36.137 --> 00:47:38.280
 Pasadena, California, Detroit,
 
 00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:39.099
 Grand Rapids,
 
 00:47:39.159 --> 00:47:40.481
 and Trenton in the great state of
 
 00:47:40.541 --> 00:47:43.885
 Michigan, Lusaka, Tel Aviv, and Montreal.
 
 00:47:44.925 --> 00:47:45.806
 Actually,
 
 00:47:45.847 --> 00:47:48.088
 both South Bostons in Massachusetts and in
 
 00:47:48.128 --> 00:47:48.590
 Virginia.
 
 00:47:48.889 --> 00:47:49.951
 Thank you all for joining us,
 
 00:47:49.990 --> 00:47:51.452
 and thank you to all those in places
 
 00:47:51.492 --> 00:47:52.393
 between and beyond.
 
 00:47:52.413 --> 00:47:54.255
 And now we will be piped out on
 
 00:47:54.295 --> 00:47:55.135
 the road to Boston.