Fort Ticonderoga & Henry Knox with Dr. Matthew Keagle

This week t Professor Robert Allison welcomes Dr. Matthew Keagle, Curator at Fort Ticonderoga, for a vivid exploration of one of the most audacious logistical feats of the American Revolution: Henry Knox’s Noble Train of Artillery. Together they trace Knox’s remarkable mid-winter journey of 1775–1776—300 miles across frozen rivers and lakes, treacherous terrain, and sometimes snow-choked roads—to deliver more than 60 tons of captured British artillery to General George Washington.  He also tells us about Real Time Revolution, Ticonderoga's plans for commemorating the 250th!

Transcript

WEBVTT
 
 00:00:00.009 --> 00:00:01.609
 I'm a Vermonter.
 
 00:00:01.629 --> 00:00:01.850
 Really?
 
 00:00:01.990 --> 00:00:02.169
 Okay.
 
 00:00:02.189 --> 00:00:02.310
 Well,
 
 00:00:02.350 --> 00:00:03.930
 welcome everyone to the Revolution Two
 
 00:00:03.950 --> 00:00:04.870
 Fifty Podcast.
 
 00:00:05.551 --> 00:00:06.291
 Bob Allison,
 
 00:00:06.331 --> 00:00:08.150
 chair of the Rev Two Fifty Advisory Group.
 
 00:00:08.170 --> 00:00:09.992
 We're a consortium of organizations,
 
 00:00:10.032 --> 00:00:12.012
 some seventy-five or so in Massachusetts,
 
 00:00:12.432 --> 00:00:13.993
 planning commemorations of American
 
 00:00:14.053 --> 00:00:14.692
 independence.
 
 00:00:15.112 --> 00:00:15.694
 And our guest,
 
 00:00:15.714 --> 00:00:17.333
 whom you might have heard as originally a
 
 00:00:17.353 --> 00:00:20.175
 Vermonter, is Dr. Matthew Kegel.
 
 00:00:20.789 --> 00:00:23.632
 Matt Kegel is the curator at Fort
 
 00:00:23.652 --> 00:00:24.352
 Ticonderoga,
 
 00:00:24.772 --> 00:00:27.015
 where he is responsible for research,
 
 00:00:27.074 --> 00:00:27.734
 acquisitions,
 
 00:00:27.774 --> 00:00:30.297
 and development of the collection,
 
 00:00:31.097 --> 00:00:33.060
 as well as supervising the exhibits and
 
 00:00:33.119 --> 00:00:35.862
 staff at this tremendous place, the fort.
 
 00:00:36.021 --> 00:00:38.503
 And it has a tremendous collection,
 
 00:00:38.543 --> 00:00:40.985
 not only of books, but of artifacts,
 
 00:00:41.027 --> 00:00:42.688
 cannon, uniforms, other things.
 
 00:00:42.707 --> 00:00:43.008
 So, Matt,
 
 00:00:43.027 --> 00:00:45.149
 can you tell us a bit about what
 
 00:00:45.890 --> 00:00:47.411
 you have to work with at Ticonderoga?
 
 00:00:48.137 --> 00:00:48.296
 Well,
 
 00:00:48.317 --> 00:00:49.817
 we have an enormous amount to work with.
 
 00:00:50.277 --> 00:00:51.497
 The collection at the museum,
 
 00:00:51.518 --> 00:00:53.899
 which has been developed over almost a
 
 00:00:53.939 --> 00:00:55.079
 century and a quarter now,
 
 00:00:55.738 --> 00:00:58.060
 consists of virtually every type of
 
 00:00:58.539 --> 00:01:01.561
 material culture from military conflict in
 
 00:01:01.581 --> 00:01:02.341
 the eighteenth century.
 
 00:01:02.381 --> 00:01:02.960
 So as you say,
 
 00:01:03.021 --> 00:01:05.781
 it's everything from very practical things
 
 00:01:05.822 --> 00:01:09.043
 like armaments, long arms, pistols,
 
 00:01:09.123 --> 00:01:10.504
 edged weapons, pole arms,
 
 00:01:10.944 --> 00:01:11.004
 as
 
 00:01:11.683 --> 00:01:12.724
 all the way up to artillery,
 
 00:01:13.165 --> 00:01:14.027
 of which we have one of the largest
 
 00:01:14.066 --> 00:01:15.769
 collections in the country of all those
 
 00:01:15.808 --> 00:01:16.569
 types of objects,
 
 00:01:17.230 --> 00:01:20.293
 but also some rare surviving uniforms,
 
 00:01:20.674 --> 00:01:22.215
 which are exceedingly rare from this time
 
 00:01:22.256 --> 00:01:23.796
 period, accoutrements,
 
 00:01:23.856 --> 00:01:26.200
 engraved powderhorns, other pieces,
 
 00:01:27.281 --> 00:01:28.923
 as well as archaeological material that's
 
 00:01:28.942 --> 00:01:30.564
 been recovered from the site here at Fort
 
 00:01:30.584 --> 00:01:31.365
 Ticonderoga.
 
 00:01:31.926 --> 00:01:33.606
 going all the way to the other end
 
 00:01:33.626 --> 00:01:36.326
 of that spectrum to the theoretical
 
 00:01:36.427 --> 00:01:38.847
 literature in terms of rare books that
 
 00:01:38.888 --> 00:01:41.388
 were published both across Europe and
 
 00:01:41.489 --> 00:01:42.328
 North America,
 
 00:01:42.448 --> 00:01:46.349
 which document basically the kind of
 
 00:01:46.530 --> 00:01:49.251
 underlying theories behind all of these
 
 00:01:49.271 --> 00:01:51.432
 different types of objects down to the
 
 00:01:51.512 --> 00:01:54.313
 actual fortifications themselves.
 
 00:01:54.332 --> 00:01:55.212
 When was the fort built?
 
 00:01:56.215 --> 00:01:58.275
 The original construction of the fort
 
 00:01:58.316 --> 00:02:00.858
 began in the late fall,
 
 00:02:00.897 --> 00:02:03.138
 winter of seventeen fifty five,
 
 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:05.540
 built by the French military during the
 
 00:02:05.579 --> 00:02:06.521
 French and Indian War.
 
 00:02:07.021 --> 00:02:07.941
 Continued, you know,
 
 00:02:07.980 --> 00:02:10.102
 it kind of piecemeal over that entire
 
 00:02:10.143 --> 00:02:13.905
 conflict and was probably never fully
 
 00:02:13.944 --> 00:02:14.544
 completed,
 
 00:02:14.745 --> 00:02:16.246
 at least based on their original designs
 
 00:02:16.306 --> 00:02:17.445
 by the end of that war.
 
 00:02:18.146 --> 00:02:20.247
 And a host of other factors led to
 
 00:02:20.307 --> 00:02:22.669
 its being in relatively poor condition by
 
 00:02:22.688 --> 00:02:24.050
 the time the American Revolution begins.
 
 00:02:25.131 --> 00:02:26.611
 the french and the british have kind of
 
 00:02:26.671 --> 00:02:28.493
 different ideas about how to build a fort
 
 00:02:29.754 --> 00:02:33.057
 not necessarily um you know the underlying
 
 00:02:33.157 --> 00:02:35.099
 theory for the construction of a lot of
 
 00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:37.121
 these the engineering principles were
 
 00:02:37.161 --> 00:02:39.622
 mostly french to begin with the major
 
 00:02:40.524 --> 00:02:42.686
 english authors that published on this
 
 00:02:42.786 --> 00:02:46.008
 like muller in england uh were actually in
 
 00:02:46.028 --> 00:02:48.631
 many cases just translating and copying
 
 00:02:48.711 --> 00:02:50.652
 out french and to a certain extent dutch
 
 00:02:50.733 --> 00:02:51.713
 works so
 
 00:02:52.294 --> 00:02:54.254
 the the underlying theory behind it all
 
 00:02:54.335 --> 00:02:57.175
 was was pretty similar and you know was
 
 00:02:57.215 --> 00:02:58.936
 widely read in both these countries even
 
 00:02:58.975 --> 00:03:00.836
 if it was in translation and not the
 
 00:03:00.876 --> 00:03:02.616
 original something you know henry knox
 
 00:03:02.637 --> 00:03:04.157
 would have known well because he's reading
 
 00:03:04.556 --> 00:03:07.038
 a lot of this same literature yeah yeah
 
 00:03:07.078 --> 00:03:08.978
 the invalides in paris has this tremendous
 
 00:03:09.018 --> 00:03:11.718
 collection of the models of forts oh yes
 
 00:03:13.188 --> 00:03:13.889
 Yeah, exactly.
 
 00:03:14.049 --> 00:03:14.868
 And, you know, the French,
 
 00:03:15.250 --> 00:03:16.050
 like they are in,
 
 00:03:17.069 --> 00:03:18.909
 I hesitate to say every,
 
 00:03:18.990 --> 00:03:21.290
 but many aspects of military science in
 
 00:03:21.311 --> 00:03:22.751
 the eighteenth century are the leaders in
 
 00:03:22.790 --> 00:03:23.290
 the field.
 
 00:03:23.350 --> 00:03:24.211
 And so, yeah,
 
 00:03:24.231 --> 00:03:25.632
 it's unsurprising that that Musée des
 
 00:03:25.651 --> 00:03:27.592
 Plans Reliefs, which has this incredible,
 
 00:03:27.693 --> 00:03:29.013
 you know, three-dimensional maps,
 
 00:03:29.932 --> 00:03:31.372
 is really striking.
 
 00:03:31.612 --> 00:03:34.674
 Yeah, and Vauban, the French engineer,
 
 00:03:34.693 --> 00:03:36.314
 was really the genius behind it.
 
 00:03:36.335 --> 00:03:38.074
 So this is where Henry Knox really learns.
 
 00:03:38.155 --> 00:03:40.295
 And he first comes to Washington's
 
 00:03:40.336 --> 00:03:42.156
 attention by building a fort in Roxburgh.
 
 00:03:42.986 --> 00:03:43.647
 Yeah, yeah.
 
 00:03:43.687 --> 00:03:45.188
 You know, I think we associate Knox,
 
 00:03:45.209 --> 00:03:45.508
 of course,
 
 00:03:45.528 --> 00:03:47.469
 with artillery today because of his later
 
 00:03:47.490 --> 00:03:48.491
 Revolutionary War service.
 
 00:03:48.550 --> 00:03:50.733
 But he begins the war very much in
 
 00:03:50.752 --> 00:03:52.114
 that engineering capacity,
 
 00:03:52.174 --> 00:03:54.996
 having developed this practical knowledge
 
 00:03:55.135 --> 00:03:56.135
 of military science.
 
 00:03:56.377 --> 00:03:57.377
 And that's something that I think is
 
 00:03:57.437 --> 00:03:58.617
 really interesting and is a little
 
 00:03:58.638 --> 00:04:01.340
 misunderstood in the kind of biography of
 
 00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:01.860
 Knox,
 
 00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:04.122
 at least as it's often received to us.
 
 00:04:04.162 --> 00:04:05.962
 And it's in print as well.
 
 00:04:06.002 --> 00:04:06.644
 But, you know,
 
 00:04:06.683 --> 00:04:08.865
 when I first learned about Henry Knox,
 
 00:04:09.165 --> 00:04:09.346
 you know,
 
 00:04:09.385 --> 00:04:10.387
 I knew that he was a
 
 00:04:11.227 --> 00:04:14.129
 a clever young man but my impression was
 
 00:04:14.409 --> 00:04:15.692
 that you know he kind of learned by
 
 00:04:15.771 --> 00:04:17.512
 osmosis because of course he was a
 
 00:04:17.572 --> 00:04:19.634
 bookseller he had a books books and
 
 00:04:19.654 --> 00:04:23.059
 stationery store in boston and you know
 
 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:24.420
 the assumption was well you know in his
 
 00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:26.062
 idle time he just pulled the books off
 
 00:04:26.081 --> 00:04:28.644
 his shelves and he read them um but
 
 00:04:28.684 --> 00:04:31.047
 in looking into what he was actually
 
 00:04:31.226 --> 00:04:31.766
 selling
 
 00:04:32.848 --> 00:04:35.028
 Not only did he not sell a lot
 
 00:04:35.069 --> 00:04:36.069
 of military titles,
 
 00:04:36.110 --> 00:04:39.651
 which aren't hugely popular or necessary
 
 00:04:39.711 --> 00:04:40.612
 prior to the revolution,
 
 00:04:41.273 --> 00:04:43.894
 but what he later very explicitly
 
 00:04:43.975 --> 00:04:45.836
 recommends to other Americans like John
 
 00:04:45.935 --> 00:04:48.517
 Adams are books that probably would have
 
 00:04:48.557 --> 00:04:51.158
 sold terribly in his bookstore because
 
 00:04:51.178 --> 00:04:52.560
 they're very high level,
 
 00:04:52.660 --> 00:04:53.761
 very theoretical books.
 
 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:57.041
 But I think that that underscores the mind
 
 00:04:57.062 --> 00:04:57.502
 that he had,
 
 00:04:57.541 --> 00:04:59.983
 that he actively sought out this
 
 00:05:00.043 --> 00:05:00.622
 information.
 
 00:05:00.802 --> 00:05:02.124
 He really went after it.
 
 00:05:02.543 --> 00:05:05.105
 For somebody who had no formal education,
 
 00:05:05.425 --> 00:05:07.064
 this was a real dogged pursuit of his.
 
 00:05:07.084 --> 00:05:08.646
 And I think that makes his story all
 
 00:05:08.665 --> 00:05:10.086
 the more remarkable in a lot of ways.
 
 00:05:10.605 --> 00:05:11.086
 It really is.
 
 00:05:11.146 --> 00:05:12.526
 We're talking with Matt Kegel,
 
 00:05:12.547 --> 00:05:14.687
 who is the curator at Fort Ticonderoga.
 
 00:05:15.168 --> 00:05:16.949
 And so you mentioned also the kind of
 
 00:05:17.088 --> 00:05:19.048
 esoteric collections you have of this
 
 00:05:19.149 --> 00:05:20.509
 theoretical literature.
 
 00:05:23.028 --> 00:05:23.769
 I mean,
 
 00:05:23.790 --> 00:05:25.850
 I read this and it's really difficult for
 
 00:05:25.891 --> 00:05:26.932
 me to understand.
 
 00:05:26.971 --> 00:05:28.533
 I'm making it sound like I do understand
 
 00:05:28.593 --> 00:05:28.653
 it.
 
 00:05:28.694 --> 00:05:29.093
 How about you?
 
 00:05:29.134 --> 00:05:29.274
 I mean,
 
 00:05:29.293 --> 00:05:30.896
 you're probably more versed in this than I
 
 00:05:30.956 --> 00:05:31.115
 am.
 
 00:05:31.735 --> 00:05:33.237
 Yeah, and it varies.
 
 00:05:33.257 --> 00:05:33.737
 You know,
 
 00:05:33.817 --> 00:05:35.500
 we went through our library collections
 
 00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:38.841
 here and polled for some programming and
 
 00:05:39.062 --> 00:05:40.244
 other uses this fall.
 
 00:05:41.764 --> 00:05:43.867
 All of the books that Henry Knox
 
 00:05:43.906 --> 00:05:45.127
 recommended to John Adams.
 
 00:05:45.247 --> 00:05:45.588
 Wow.
 
 00:05:45.848 --> 00:05:46.788
 Adams inquires.
 
 00:05:46.829 --> 00:05:48.430
 It's about a dozen different titles.
 
 00:05:48.951 --> 00:05:50.211
 Of course, they're a little vague.
 
 00:05:50.252 --> 00:05:51.934
 Sometimes he'll only mention an author's
 
 00:05:51.994 --> 00:05:52.274
 name,
 
 00:05:52.334 --> 00:05:53.595
 not the title of the work that he
 
 00:05:53.615 --> 00:05:54.216
 has in mind.
 
 00:05:54.276 --> 00:05:56.437
 But we have some of the representative key
 
 00:05:56.478 --> 00:05:57.519
 works from many of them.
 
 00:05:58.059 --> 00:06:01.201
 And some of them are very practical.
 
 00:06:01.822 --> 00:06:03.423
 It's how you're going to lay your canon
 
 00:06:03.603 --> 00:06:05.146
 out, how to design canon,
 
 00:06:05.846 --> 00:06:07.208
 the principles behind their use,
 
 00:06:07.269 --> 00:06:09.091
 how are you going to make field
 
 00:06:09.130 --> 00:06:10.031
 fortifications,
 
 00:06:10.233 --> 00:06:12.235
 how to take a church and defend it
 
 00:06:12.276 --> 00:06:13.357
 against an enemy attack.
 
 00:06:13.377 --> 00:06:15.680
 I think we can understand those things.
 
 00:06:16.100 --> 00:06:17.161
 Some of the other stuff that he
 
 00:06:17.221 --> 00:06:17.663
 recommends,
 
 00:06:17.843 --> 00:06:19.846
 especially the more theoretical works by
 
 00:06:20.166 --> 00:06:21.507
 Vauban, by Bellador,
 
 00:06:22.829 --> 00:06:23.569
 Blondel,
 
 00:06:23.769 --> 00:06:27.651
 these French authors are much harder to
 
 00:06:27.690 --> 00:06:28.151
 grasp.
 
 00:06:28.192 --> 00:06:30.151
 And I will admit that I'm in the
 
 00:06:30.173 --> 00:06:31.973
 humanities, not the hard sciences,
 
 00:06:32.312 --> 00:06:34.694
 which those works veer into a little more.
 
 00:06:34.713 --> 00:06:34.874
 I mean,
 
 00:06:34.894 --> 00:06:36.694
 you crack open one of these books and
 
 00:06:36.714 --> 00:06:38.136
 the first few chapters
 
 00:06:38.735 --> 00:06:40.658
 are math, it's geometry,
 
 00:06:41.738 --> 00:06:44.002
 it's a lot of just understanding these
 
 00:06:44.021 --> 00:06:44.362
 figures,
 
 00:06:44.382 --> 00:06:47.464
 which underscores the technical aspects of
 
 00:06:47.504 --> 00:06:49.687
 these and why it is the engineering,
 
 00:06:49.867 --> 00:06:51.369
 it is artillery that in the eighteenth
 
 00:06:51.408 --> 00:06:54.632
 century are the military disciplines that
 
 00:06:54.692 --> 00:06:57.935
 required often a formal education outside
 
 00:06:57.975 --> 00:06:59.458
 of your infantry and certainly your
 
 00:06:59.497 --> 00:07:00.538
 cavalry officers.
 
 00:07:01.446 --> 00:07:02.166
 It's really fascinating.
 
 00:07:02.187 --> 00:07:03.267
 So Washington,
 
 00:07:03.367 --> 00:07:04.910
 and it's November of seventeen seventy
 
 00:07:04.949 --> 00:07:05.230
 five.
 
 00:07:05.529 --> 00:07:07.732
 He asks Knox to do a survey of
 
 00:07:07.771 --> 00:07:09.673
 what the Continental Army has in terms of
 
 00:07:09.713 --> 00:07:11.415
 artillery and also what they need.
 
 00:07:11.896 --> 00:07:12.115
 Yes.
 
 00:07:12.456 --> 00:07:13.216
 Within a day or two,
 
 00:07:13.237 --> 00:07:15.418
 he's able to complete this very detailed
 
 00:07:15.478 --> 00:07:17.420
 list of what they have and what they
 
 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:17.781
 need.
 
 00:07:18.521 --> 00:07:18.843
 Yeah.
 
 00:07:18.923 --> 00:07:20.845
 And I think he's aided by the fact
 
 00:07:20.865 --> 00:07:22.745
 that even a month,
 
 00:07:22.826 --> 00:07:24.648
 a little over a month prior to that,
 
 00:07:25.108 --> 00:07:25.548
 Gridley,
 
 00:07:25.569 --> 00:07:25.649
 the
 
 00:07:26.997 --> 00:07:28.358
 current commander of the Continental
 
 00:07:28.398 --> 00:07:28.838
 Artillery,
 
 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:31.560
 had prepared his own summary to Washington
 
 00:07:31.721 --> 00:07:33.702
 of what was needed and what they had.
 
 00:07:34.264 --> 00:07:37.387
 And this goes back to I think another
 
 00:07:37.406 --> 00:07:38.927
 misconception that we sometimes have is
 
 00:07:38.968 --> 00:07:41.971
 that the Continental Army had no artillery
 
 00:07:42.151 --> 00:07:43.452
 with which to bombard Boston.
 
 00:07:43.713 --> 00:07:44.673
 They did have artillery.
 
 00:07:44.733 --> 00:07:45.314
 They had some.
 
 00:07:45.334 --> 00:07:46.574
 They're already starting to mount it in
 
 00:07:46.595 --> 00:07:47.055
 their lines.
 
 00:07:47.295 --> 00:07:48.858
 They do not have enough.
 
 00:07:49.398 --> 00:07:52.519
 And you go back to this prescriptive
 
 00:07:52.579 --> 00:07:54.600
 literature, especially on siegecraft,
 
 00:07:54.641 --> 00:07:56.581
 which is the most formulaic,
 
 00:07:56.641 --> 00:07:59.403
 the most kind of broken down to its
 
 00:07:59.444 --> 00:08:01.485
 scientific elements of any aspect of
 
 00:08:01.524 --> 00:08:02.826
 warfare from this time period.
 
 00:08:03.065 --> 00:08:04.666
 And you go to books like Vauban and
 
 00:08:04.687 --> 00:08:06.067
 other authors, they can tell you,
 
 00:08:06.108 --> 00:08:08.610
 if you're an army that is facing a
 
 00:08:09.629 --> 00:08:11.531
 fortification with X number of troops in
 
 00:08:11.571 --> 00:08:11.672
 it,
 
 00:08:11.891 --> 00:08:13.793
 you need Y number of troops to attack
 
 00:08:13.812 --> 00:08:15.814
 it, you need Z number of artillery,
 
 00:08:16.194 --> 00:08:17.834
 and it will last for X amount of
 
 00:08:18.115 --> 00:08:18.495
 days.
 
 00:08:18.615 --> 00:08:19.036
 So there
 
 00:08:19.096 --> 00:08:20.216
 is literally, you know,
 
 00:08:20.235 --> 00:08:21.737
 in some ways a formula that you can
 
 00:08:21.757 --> 00:08:22.456
 apply to this.
 
 00:08:22.937 --> 00:08:24.517
 And they would have known about this.
 
 00:08:24.577 --> 00:08:25.637
 And so they could have said, well, yes,
 
 00:08:25.677 --> 00:08:27.319
 we do have some tools,
 
 00:08:27.718 --> 00:08:28.819
 but we don't have enough.
 
 00:08:28.978 --> 00:08:30.139
 You know, we need manpower.
 
 00:08:30.418 --> 00:08:31.420
 We need the artillery.
 
 00:08:31.819 --> 00:08:33.440
 We need more artillery that we have to
 
 00:08:33.539 --> 00:08:36.240
 assure victory rather than just, you know,
 
 00:08:36.260 --> 00:08:37.621
 achieve parity, say.
 
 00:08:39.062 --> 00:08:39.182
 Yeah,
 
 00:08:39.221 --> 00:08:41.143
 because they do have the British besieged
 
 00:08:41.182 --> 00:08:41.743
 in Boston.
 
 00:08:41.763 --> 00:08:43.302
 The British are surrounded by the
 
 00:08:43.363 --> 00:08:44.504
 Continental Army.
 
 00:08:45.083 --> 00:08:45.264
 But
 
 00:08:45.611 --> 00:08:47.774
 they don't have that next step.
 
 00:08:47.833 --> 00:08:49.033
 And part of this, of course,
 
 00:08:49.073 --> 00:08:50.515
 is getting Dorchester Heights.
 
 00:08:50.535 --> 00:08:52.576
 And I understand that General Clinton had
 
 00:08:52.616 --> 00:08:54.298
 suggested the British take that,
 
 00:08:54.357 --> 00:08:56.519
 but the other generals overruled him.
 
 00:08:57.739 --> 00:08:59.259
 One thing we get out of Clinton's memoir
 
 00:08:59.278 --> 00:09:00.360
 is that things would have gone a lot
 
 00:09:00.379 --> 00:09:01.820
 differently had they only listened to Sir
 
 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:02.500
 David Clinton.
 
 00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:03.940
 Yeah, exactly.
 
 00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:04.519
 Well,
 
 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:06.181
 I imagine it would have dangerously
 
 00:09:06.221 --> 00:09:07.900
 extended the British as well if they're
 
 00:09:07.921 --> 00:09:11.260
 already holding Charlestown and Boston and
 
 00:09:11.301 --> 00:09:12.121
 Dorchester.
 
 00:09:12.201 --> 00:09:14.322
 It makes them a little more vulnerable in
 
 00:09:14.381 --> 00:09:14.902
 some ways.
 
 00:09:15.381 --> 00:09:16.182
 Yeah, it would have.
 
 00:09:17.261 --> 00:09:22.503
 So Knox then sets out to... Now,
 
 00:09:22.682 --> 00:09:24.844
 how did the... So the French built it,
 
 00:09:25.504 --> 00:09:26.604
 and then the British take it,
 
 00:09:27.321 --> 00:09:29.201
 And then how does it fall into the
 
 00:09:29.261 --> 00:09:30.962
 hands of our side?
 
 00:09:31.344 --> 00:09:31.703
 Yeah,
 
 00:09:31.783 --> 00:09:33.105
 there's a lot of ground to cover there.
 
 00:09:33.144 --> 00:09:35.365
 The British unsuccessfully,
 
 00:09:35.385 --> 00:09:37.388
 in dramatic fashion in seventeen fifty
 
 00:09:37.447 --> 00:09:39.048
 eight, failed to take Ticonderoga.
 
 00:09:39.408 --> 00:09:41.630
 Ends up being the bloodiest battle fought
 
 00:09:41.691 --> 00:09:43.951
 in this continent until really the
 
 00:09:44.032 --> 00:09:45.933
 Mexican-American War of the eighties.
 
 00:09:45.974 --> 00:09:47.674
 The British suffer higher casualties than
 
 00:09:47.715 --> 00:09:48.414
 at Bunker Hill.
 
 00:09:48.455 --> 00:09:48.554
 Well,
 
 00:09:49.456 --> 00:09:50.937
 not as an overall percentage of their
 
 00:09:50.976 --> 00:09:52.798
 force, but as a as a fixed number,
 
 00:09:52.837 --> 00:09:54.658
 almost two thousand British and American
 
 00:09:54.698 --> 00:09:55.159
 casualties.
 
 00:09:55.950 --> 00:09:57.291
 Who was leading the campaign on the
 
 00:09:57.311 --> 00:09:58.350
 British side?
 
 00:09:58.390 --> 00:09:59.652
 General James Abercrombie,
 
 00:10:00.331 --> 00:10:01.413
 who you might not have heard of because
 
 00:10:01.432 --> 00:10:03.874
 he's dismissed from command later that
 
 00:10:03.913 --> 00:10:05.215
 year, unsurprisingly,
 
 00:10:05.254 --> 00:10:07.134
 for this kind of spectacular failure.
 
 00:10:07.154 --> 00:10:09.056
 They outnumbered the French almost four to
 
 00:10:09.155 --> 00:10:09.277
 one.
 
 00:10:09.317 --> 00:10:11.177
 It should have been a no-brainer,
 
 00:10:11.597 --> 00:10:13.379
 but it was a stinging defeat.
 
 00:10:13.418 --> 00:10:16.059
 And it gave Americans a sense really of...
 
 00:10:17.523 --> 00:10:19.063
 The fact that the British could be beaten,
 
 00:10:19.784 --> 00:10:21.105
 it adds to one of the litany of
 
 00:10:21.145 --> 00:10:22.547
 French and Indian war defeats for the
 
 00:10:22.586 --> 00:10:24.908
 British that kind of get in the American
 
 00:10:24.967 --> 00:10:25.408
 mindset.
 
 00:10:25.428 --> 00:10:26.570
 They're not invincible,
 
 00:10:26.629 --> 00:10:28.691
 which they revive in the revolution.
 
 00:10:28.990 --> 00:10:32.653
 Franklin is writing satirical songs that
 
 00:10:32.754 --> 00:10:35.216
 revive these British defeats as proof that
 
 00:10:35.255 --> 00:10:36.817
 Americans can make their efforts.
 
 00:10:36.876 --> 00:10:39.058
 But they come back in seventeen fifty nine
 
 00:10:39.119 --> 00:10:40.899
 under General Jeffrey Amherst and they
 
 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:43.942
 capture Ticonderoga and it remains a
 
 00:10:43.981 --> 00:10:44.763
 British possession.
 
 00:10:45.062 --> 00:10:47.004
 throughout the peace following the French
 
 00:10:47.024 --> 00:10:47.684
 and Indian War.
 
 00:10:47.725 --> 00:10:50.067
 So it's still in British hands with a
 
 00:10:50.206 --> 00:10:51.748
 relatively small garrison.
 
 00:10:51.788 --> 00:10:52.369
 At some points,
 
 00:10:52.389 --> 00:10:54.309
 there's as few as fifteen men at
 
 00:10:54.350 --> 00:10:56.692
 Ticonderoga leading up to the revolution.
 
 00:10:57.212 --> 00:11:00.575
 They had started to reinforce Ticonderoga,
 
 00:11:00.615 --> 00:11:00.894
 though,
 
 00:11:00.934 --> 00:11:02.476
 by seventeen seventy five with the
 
 00:11:02.517 --> 00:11:04.879
 understanding that they're getting reports
 
 00:11:04.899 --> 00:11:07.520
 from the area of suspicious activity going
 
 00:11:07.581 --> 00:11:07.681
 on.
 
 00:11:08.081 --> 00:11:10.522
 The Garrison's Commander reports about odd
 
 00:11:10.562 --> 00:11:12.581
 questions that people are asking armed
 
 00:11:12.621 --> 00:11:13.462
 groups of people,
 
 00:11:13.802 --> 00:11:15.582
 particularly across the lake in the New
 
 00:11:15.623 --> 00:11:16.462
 Hampshire Grants.
 
 00:11:16.884 --> 00:11:18.644
 But also because the British government
 
 00:11:18.683 --> 00:11:20.404
 has made a commitment by November of
 
 00:11:20.445 --> 00:11:23.765
 seventeen seventy four to reconstruct both
 
 00:11:23.806 --> 00:11:24.706
 Ticonderoga
 
 00:11:25.186 --> 00:11:26.126
 and Crown Point,
 
 00:11:26.767 --> 00:11:29.528
 which had burned in a few years prior
 
 00:11:29.548 --> 00:11:29.928
 to this.
 
 00:11:30.469 --> 00:11:33.029
 And this was to stabilize a British
 
 00:11:33.090 --> 00:11:35.711
 presence on Lake Champlain that they saw
 
 00:11:35.932 --> 00:11:39.793
 as useful to have if tensions in America
 
 00:11:40.354 --> 00:11:41.254
 got out of hand.
 
 00:11:41.374 --> 00:11:43.455
 It also maintained communication between
 
 00:11:43.735 --> 00:11:45.255
 the British province of New York and the
 
 00:11:45.275 --> 00:11:46.777
 British province of Quebec much more
 
 00:11:46.856 --> 00:11:49.317
 easily than going around the Atlantic to
 
 00:11:49.359 --> 00:11:49.719
 do so.
 
 00:11:50.418 --> 00:11:53.104
 but only a small number of reinforcements
 
 00:11:53.124 --> 00:11:55.187
 had gotten a Ticonderoga by the time that
 
 00:11:55.268 --> 00:11:57.410
 the revolution began in April.
 
 00:11:58.011 --> 00:11:59.654
 And interestingly enough,
 
 00:12:00.908 --> 00:12:02.208
 On April nineteenth,
 
 00:12:02.349 --> 00:12:03.690
 seventeen seventy five,
 
 00:12:04.051 --> 00:12:05.892
 Thomas Gage wrote a letter to the governor
 
 00:12:05.912 --> 00:12:08.453
 of Canada instructing him to dispatch an
 
 00:12:08.494 --> 00:12:11.096
 entire regiment from Quebec to go to
 
 00:12:11.135 --> 00:12:13.697
 Ticonderoga or Crown Point to be ready in
 
 00:12:13.758 --> 00:12:17.181
 case of agitation with the New Hampshire
 
 00:12:17.201 --> 00:12:19.182
 Grant settlers in case things got out of
 
 00:12:19.222 --> 00:12:19.582
 hand.
 
 00:12:19.982 --> 00:12:21.445
 And of course, you know,
 
 00:12:21.465 --> 00:12:22.826
 later in the day that that letter is
 
 00:12:22.846 --> 00:12:23.145
 written,
 
 00:12:23.326 --> 00:12:24.966
 the situation on the ground in Boston is
 
 00:12:25.048 --> 00:12:26.269
 very different from what it was that
 
 00:12:26.369 --> 00:12:26.708
 morning.
 
 00:12:27.109 --> 00:12:28.809
 And by the time it gets to Canada,
 
 00:12:29.150 --> 00:12:30.692
 the Americans have already made an effort
 
 00:12:30.731 --> 00:12:32.653
 to capture and have succeeded in capturing
 
 00:12:32.692 --> 00:12:33.494
 Ticonderoga,
 
 00:12:33.533 --> 00:12:36.916
 which they did coming out of the fallout
 
 00:12:36.995 --> 00:12:37.937
 from April.
 
 00:12:37.976 --> 00:12:40.337
 Nineteenth is Massachusetts and then later
 
 00:12:40.378 --> 00:12:41.318
 Connecticut, New Hampshire,
 
 00:12:41.339 --> 00:12:43.821
 Rhode Island forces begin to invest Boston
 
 00:12:44.140 --> 00:12:45.621
 surrounding it on the mainland.
 
 00:12:45.902 --> 00:12:47.903
 They realized that one of the deficiencies
 
 00:12:47.923 --> 00:12:50.585
 that they have is a lack of heavy
 
 00:12:50.885 --> 00:12:52.466
 battering guns, heavy artillery.
 
 00:12:52.486 --> 00:12:52.606
 Sure.
 
 00:12:53.047 --> 00:12:55.427
 reach the British in Boston to force them
 
 00:12:56.207 --> 00:12:57.869
 out or to force them into an action.
 
 00:12:58.308 --> 00:13:01.450
 And so two separate colonial entities in
 
 00:13:01.490 --> 00:13:04.350
 Massachusetts and Connecticut come up with
 
 00:13:04.370 --> 00:13:06.011
 the idea, well, you know,
 
 00:13:06.052 --> 00:13:07.292
 going back to that last war,
 
 00:13:07.332 --> 00:13:08.113
 the French and Indian War,
 
 00:13:08.153 --> 00:13:10.374
 this massive amount of artillery up on
 
 00:13:10.413 --> 00:13:11.693
 Lake Champlain, because, of course,
 
 00:13:11.994 --> 00:13:14.414
 the British brought their own siege trains
 
 00:13:14.495 --> 00:13:16.096
 to attack those fortifications.
 
 00:13:16.956 --> 00:13:19.437
 They fell, and I often say,
 
 00:13:19.798 --> 00:13:21.340
 not unlike a lot of conflicts throughout
 
 00:13:21.379 --> 00:13:21.820
 history,
 
 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:24.461
 when you have an expeditionary force going
 
 00:13:24.501 --> 00:13:25.163
 overseas,
 
 00:13:25.562 --> 00:13:27.404
 the last thing any government wants to do
 
 00:13:27.705 --> 00:13:30.326
 is pay to send all that materiel back
 
 00:13:30.386 --> 00:13:32.008
 home when it's over.
 
 00:13:32.269 --> 00:13:33.470
 So all of this artillery,
 
 00:13:33.830 --> 00:13:35.331
 including captured French guns,
 
 00:13:35.431 --> 00:13:37.472
 largely stayed at Crown Point and
 
 00:13:37.493 --> 00:13:38.253
 Ticonderoga,
 
 00:13:38.494 --> 00:13:40.894
 which is why there's this odd stockpile of
 
 00:13:40.934 --> 00:13:43.197
 weaponry in the heart of the continent in
 
 00:13:43.236 --> 00:13:43.738
 many ways.
 
 00:13:44.317 --> 00:13:45.458
 And so, again,
 
 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:47.721
 Massachusetts's provincial Congress
 
 00:13:48.461 --> 00:13:49.721
 empowers, oddly enough,
 
 00:13:49.841 --> 00:13:51.903
 a Connecticut soldier, Benedict Arnold,
 
 00:13:52.203 --> 00:13:54.046
 to raise a regiment to march out and
 
 00:13:54.066 --> 00:13:54.966
 to take the cannon.
 
 00:13:55.386 --> 00:13:56.648
 While at the same time,
 
 00:13:57.048 --> 00:13:58.349
 officials from Connecticut,
 
 00:13:58.428 --> 00:14:00.431
 many of whom are assemblymen,
 
 00:14:00.770 --> 00:14:03.192
 although it is a campaign not officially
 
 00:14:03.312 --> 00:14:05.153
 sanctioned by the Connecticut General
 
 00:14:05.193 --> 00:14:05.674
 Assembly,
 
 00:14:06.235 --> 00:14:08.735
 uh secretly make their way west and north
 
 00:14:09.155 --> 00:14:11.376
 uh with the same goal in mind and
 
 00:14:11.616 --> 00:14:12.857
 it is the connecticut half of the
 
 00:14:12.898 --> 00:14:15.538
 expedition that has more money um more
 
 00:14:15.599 --> 00:14:17.799
 manpower by the time they get into western
 
 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:19.400
 massachusetts they start pulling in uh
 
 00:14:20.181 --> 00:14:21.961
 western massachusetts communities in
 
 00:14:22.081 --> 00:14:25.043
 pittsfield in that area and soldiers or
 
 00:14:25.143 --> 00:14:26.423
 militiamen at least to join this
 
 00:14:26.484 --> 00:14:28.845
 expedition and then they get the support
 
 00:14:28.904 --> 00:14:31.125
 of the green mountain boys this kind of
 
 00:14:31.285 --> 00:14:31.645
 you know
 
 00:14:32.884 --> 00:14:35.431
 pseudo militia paramilitary force
 
 00:14:35.510 --> 00:14:37.395
 self-defense you know group they might
 
 00:14:37.416 --> 00:14:38.177
 have called themselves
 
 00:14:39.976 --> 00:14:41.817
 who are at least armed,
 
 00:14:42.077 --> 00:14:43.980
 they're relatively well organized,
 
 00:14:44.379 --> 00:14:46.181
 and they have tens,
 
 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:48.763
 hundreds of members that can be mobilized
 
 00:14:48.802 --> 00:14:49.703
 for this expedition.
 
 00:14:50.183 --> 00:14:51.625
 And as they're heading northward,
 
 00:14:51.865 --> 00:14:53.586
 they are met on the road by Benedict
 
 00:14:53.626 --> 00:14:53.886
 Arnold,
 
 00:14:53.907 --> 00:14:55.727
 who has gone hell for leather from
 
 00:14:56.187 --> 00:14:58.610
 Cambridge to make this happen.
 
 00:14:59.150 --> 00:15:00.390
 And together,
 
 00:15:00.511 --> 00:15:03.354
 in a tentative truce between Arnold and
 
 00:15:03.413 --> 00:15:03.994
 Ethan Allen,
 
 00:15:04.014 --> 00:15:05.414
 the leader of the Green Mountain Boys,
 
 00:15:05.695 --> 00:15:07.296
 they storm into the fort and they capture
 
 00:15:07.316 --> 00:15:09.138
 it on May tenth of seventeen seventy five.
 
 00:15:10.313 --> 00:15:11.453
 We're talking with Matt Kegel,
 
 00:15:11.474 --> 00:15:13.375
 who is the curator at Fort Ticonderoga,
 
 00:15:13.414 --> 00:15:16.135
 where all of this happened in May of
 
 00:15:16.176 --> 00:15:17.155
 seventeen seventy five.
 
 00:15:17.596 --> 00:15:18.355
 And, you know, Ethan,
 
 00:15:18.395 --> 00:15:19.636
 a lot of those guys had come up
 
 00:15:19.677 --> 00:15:20.456
 from Connecticut.
 
 00:15:20.496 --> 00:15:22.658
 But then this area is in dispute between
 
 00:15:23.357 --> 00:15:24.717
 New Hampshire, New York,
 
 00:15:24.758 --> 00:15:26.818
 as well as Allen and the other folks
 
 00:15:26.839 --> 00:15:27.339
 who were there.
 
 00:15:27.379 --> 00:15:29.919
 So so was Allen's idea we're going to
 
 00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:31.559
 get this to lift the siege of Boston
 
 00:15:31.580 --> 00:15:32.820
 or was it going to get this to
 
 00:15:33.561 --> 00:15:35.961
 repel the sheriff of Albany County from
 
 00:15:36.020 --> 00:15:37.761
 coming in and trying to take away our
 
 00:15:37.802 --> 00:15:38.261
 property?
 
 00:15:39.201 --> 00:15:41.601
 Yeah, I think it did.
 
 00:15:41.783 --> 00:15:43.663
 As every event in an event like the
 
 00:15:43.703 --> 00:15:44.384
 Revolution,
 
 00:15:44.744 --> 00:15:47.405
 there are multiple motivations at work.
 
 00:15:47.546 --> 00:15:49.746
 Ethan Allen, I don't get the impression,
 
 00:15:49.846 --> 00:15:53.529
 was immediately concerned about the siege
 
 00:15:53.549 --> 00:15:54.210
 of Boston,
 
 00:15:54.350 --> 00:15:56.110
 although he does reference it after the
 
 00:15:56.150 --> 00:15:57.152
 capture of the fort.
 
 00:15:57.792 --> 00:15:59.572
 um you know for his purposes in the
 
 00:15:59.712 --> 00:16:02.434
 the ongoing dispute between new york over
 
 00:16:02.455 --> 00:16:04.436
 their claims to this territory and what
 
 00:16:04.456 --> 00:16:06.697
 becomes vermont that had been settled by
 
 00:16:06.736 --> 00:16:09.099
 people with charters from new hampshire
 
 00:16:09.359 --> 00:16:10.418
 that the green mountain boys had been
 
 00:16:10.700 --> 00:16:13.020
 formed to you know violently resist new
 
 00:16:13.061 --> 00:16:14.861
 york's control of that claims after they
 
 00:16:14.881 --> 00:16:17.302
 had lost in new york courts the legal
 
 00:16:17.322 --> 00:16:19.764
 battle for that land i think they saw
 
 00:16:19.784 --> 00:16:23.106
 it in some ways as eliminating a potential
 
 00:16:24.004 --> 00:16:26.485
 threat that the British would support New
 
 00:16:26.525 --> 00:16:27.385
 York's claims.
 
 00:16:27.966 --> 00:16:30.287
 And whether they knew the full extent of
 
 00:16:30.326 --> 00:16:31.547
 the correspondence or not,
 
 00:16:32.368 --> 00:16:34.207
 the governor of New York and the
 
 00:16:34.227 --> 00:16:35.548
 lieutenant governor of New York,
 
 00:16:35.808 --> 00:16:37.249
 as well as the governor of Canada,
 
 00:16:37.609 --> 00:16:39.529
 had had kind of constant communication
 
 00:16:39.710 --> 00:16:41.710
 with garrison commanders at Ticonderoga
 
 00:16:42.009 --> 00:16:44.390
 and Army High Command in America about the
 
 00:16:44.451 --> 00:16:46.211
 issue of these tensions in the New
 
 00:16:46.251 --> 00:16:46.991
 Hampshire grants.
 
 00:16:47.532 --> 00:16:48.631
 And the government,
 
 00:16:48.951 --> 00:16:50.653
 the royal government of New York
 
 00:16:50.832 --> 00:16:53.453
 repeatedly requested Gage and Frederick
 
 00:16:53.474 --> 00:16:54.793
 Haldeman, commanders in chief,
 
 00:16:55.094 --> 00:16:58.034
 to send troops down to Ticonderoga or
 
 00:16:58.054 --> 00:17:00.416
 Crown Point that could be used against
 
 00:17:00.775 --> 00:17:02.316
 what they called the rioters in the New
 
 00:17:02.336 --> 00:17:03.116
 Hampshire grants.
 
 00:17:04.517 --> 00:17:06.117
 the you know to the credit of the
 
 00:17:06.159 --> 00:17:07.940
 military administration gage and how
 
 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:10.342
 demand repeatedly they said no you know
 
 00:17:10.362 --> 00:17:12.584
 the army is not here to police disputes
 
 00:17:12.644 --> 00:17:15.666
 between colonies territory and they
 
 00:17:15.747 --> 00:17:17.087
 certainly don't want to get involved in a
 
 00:17:17.127 --> 00:17:18.828
 situation where they might you know shed
 
 00:17:18.868 --> 00:17:20.590
 the blood of colonists they you know i
 
 00:17:20.611 --> 00:17:22.051
 think they've learned something in boston
 
 00:17:22.071 --> 00:17:25.335
 in that this is just going to exacerbate
 
 00:17:25.355 --> 00:17:27.076
 tensions and they said unless we get
 
 00:17:27.115 --> 00:17:28.778
 specific word from the king
 
 00:17:29.337 --> 00:17:30.919
 The army is not going in there.
 
 00:17:31.058 --> 00:17:32.079
 You know, if you have a dispute,
 
 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:33.400
 you've got a militia.
 
 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:34.820
 You can mobilize your militia.
 
 00:17:35.201 --> 00:17:37.201
 But by the time you get into April
 
 00:17:37.241 --> 00:17:38.722
 and May of seventeen seventy five,
 
 00:17:39.563 --> 00:17:41.104
 the pleading from the government of New
 
 00:17:41.124 --> 00:17:43.085
 York says, you know, basically, you know,
 
 00:17:43.105 --> 00:17:44.526
 military force is the only thing that's
 
 00:17:44.546 --> 00:17:45.967
 going to bring these people back to royal
 
 00:17:46.007 --> 00:17:46.507
 control.
 
 00:17:46.946 --> 00:17:48.688
 And as much as Gage has been reticent
 
 00:17:48.708 --> 00:17:50.910
 about this, starts to suggest that,
 
 00:17:50.970 --> 00:17:51.130
 you know,
 
 00:17:51.329 --> 00:17:54.451
 maybe having the army ready might be a
 
 00:17:54.490 --> 00:17:55.112
 good idea.
 
 00:17:55.751 --> 00:17:56.492
 Now, again,
 
 00:17:56.512 --> 00:17:59.013
 I don't know how much Ethan Allen himself
 
 00:17:59.115 --> 00:18:00.214
 or other members of the Green Mountain
 
 00:18:00.234 --> 00:18:02.076
 Boys had access to this private
 
 00:18:02.096 --> 00:18:02.757
 correspondence,
 
 00:18:02.997 --> 00:18:04.617
 but he could probably imagine the threat
 
 00:18:04.637 --> 00:18:06.940
 from the Army at a post like Ticonderoga.
 
 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:09.561
 And so eliminating that post would have
 
 00:18:09.602 --> 00:18:12.284
 benefited their efforts as well as added
 
 00:18:12.324 --> 00:18:13.644
 to the greater good of the Siege of
 
 00:18:13.664 --> 00:18:14.164
 Boston.
 
 00:18:14.484 --> 00:18:16.686
 And so when you can accomplish your local
 
 00:18:16.727 --> 00:18:19.929
 goals and support broader goals,
 
 00:18:20.769 --> 00:18:21.971
 I think it's a win-win in some ways.
 
 00:18:21.990 --> 00:18:22.090
 Right.
 
 00:18:22.111 --> 00:18:24.593
 This is great.
 
 00:18:24.673 --> 00:18:25.053
 Of course,
 
 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:28.040
 The great line that we have when Alan
 
 00:18:28.101 --> 00:18:30.342
 demands the surrender of the fort and the
 
 00:18:30.481 --> 00:18:31.862
 captain, the commander says,
 
 00:18:32.061 --> 00:18:33.123
 to am I surrendering?
 
 00:18:33.163 --> 00:18:33.442
 And he says,
 
 00:18:33.462 --> 00:18:34.803
 you're surrendering in the name of the
 
 00:18:34.843 --> 00:18:36.503
 great Jehovah and the Continental
 
 00:18:36.544 --> 00:18:38.684
 Congress.
 
 00:18:38.904 --> 00:18:41.026
 Is that something that's plausible he
 
 00:18:41.086 --> 00:18:41.685
 might have said?
 
 00:18:42.987 --> 00:18:44.626
 It's plausible that he wrote it because he
 
 00:18:44.686 --> 00:18:49.088
 did many years later in one of the
 
 00:18:49.148 --> 00:18:50.769
 best selling books of the Revolutionary
 
 00:18:50.809 --> 00:18:51.130
 War.
 
 00:18:51.529 --> 00:18:52.931
 The reality of it, I think,
 
 00:18:53.151 --> 00:18:54.672
 is implausible.
 
 00:18:54.692 --> 00:18:55.932
 In part,
 
 00:18:56.153 --> 00:18:57.593
 Ethan Allen had an interesting
 
 00:18:57.633 --> 00:18:59.213
 relationship with Christianity.
 
 00:18:59.894 --> 00:19:01.755
 Some people even accusing him of barely
 
 00:19:01.795 --> 00:19:02.655
 being a Christian.
 
 00:19:02.736 --> 00:19:04.395
 So to invoke Jehovah in that way,
 
 00:19:04.476 --> 00:19:05.156
 perhaps not.
 
 00:19:05.876 --> 00:19:06.718
 I think more tellingly,
 
 00:19:07.137 --> 00:19:08.618
 the Continental Congress because the
 
 00:19:08.679 --> 00:19:10.539
 Second Continental Congress only met for
 
 00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:12.740
 the first time later that same day.
 
 00:19:12.760 --> 00:19:15.662
 They did not even exist as an embodied
 
 00:19:15.682 --> 00:19:18.044
 Congress when Fort Ticonderoga was taken.
 
 00:19:18.263 --> 00:19:20.204
 They certainly had no notice of this
 
 00:19:20.244 --> 00:19:22.506
 because it's a week later that Congress
 
 00:19:22.546 --> 00:19:25.488
 gets word that two colonies effectively
 
 00:19:25.728 --> 00:19:28.088
 had gone off on their own and captured
 
 00:19:28.108 --> 00:19:29.210
 this fortress,
 
 00:19:29.490 --> 00:19:31.230
 which left them with a bit of a
 
 00:19:31.270 --> 00:19:32.892
 challenge of how do you spin this?
 
 00:19:33.771 --> 00:19:35.772
 You can't you can't rewind the clock.
 
 00:19:35.792 --> 00:19:37.314
 You know, again, once once this is out,
 
 00:19:37.414 --> 00:19:38.035
 it's done.
 
 00:19:38.515 --> 00:19:40.497
 They had to find a way to justify
 
 00:19:40.537 --> 00:19:40.616
 it.
 
 00:19:40.717 --> 00:19:41.656
 And interestingly enough,
 
 00:19:41.938 --> 00:19:44.459
 Congress's first response to this is not
 
 00:19:44.538 --> 00:19:46.019
 we we got it so we could get
 
 00:19:46.039 --> 00:19:47.621
 Canada to break the siege of Boston.
 
 00:19:48.001 --> 00:19:50.824
 Their response is to portray this as a
 
 00:19:50.884 --> 00:19:54.205
 defensive measure against the British in
 
 00:19:54.266 --> 00:19:54.705
 Canada.
 
 00:19:56.446 --> 00:19:57.788
 This follows upon,
 
 00:19:58.127 --> 00:20:00.349
 especially in the first months of the war,
 
 00:20:00.690 --> 00:20:04.573
 this effort of framing British action as
 
 00:20:04.633 --> 00:20:06.953
 aggressive and American action as
 
 00:20:07.015 --> 00:20:07.714
 defensive.
 
 00:20:07.954 --> 00:20:10.096
 Going back to in Massachusetts,
 
 00:20:10.116 --> 00:20:11.417
 the provincial Congress is doing after
 
 00:20:11.458 --> 00:20:12.278
 Lexington and Concord,
 
 00:20:12.298 --> 00:20:14.819
 getting depositions that say from both
 
 00:20:14.859 --> 00:20:16.401
 British and American participants,
 
 00:20:16.681 --> 00:20:18.303
 Oh, it was the British that fired first.
 
 00:20:18.583 --> 00:20:19.625
 They were the aggressors.
 
 00:20:19.845 --> 00:20:21.467
 We were simply defending ourselves.
 
 00:20:21.767 --> 00:20:24.150
 Congress frames the capture of Ticonderoga
 
 00:20:24.210 --> 00:20:25.491
 as this defensive measure.
 
 00:20:25.791 --> 00:20:27.213
 Well, if we didn't capture it,
 
 00:20:27.294 --> 00:20:28.134
 and it was, of course,
 
 00:20:28.174 --> 00:20:32.279
 captured by locals to really playing up,
 
 00:20:32.339 --> 00:20:32.539
 I think,
 
 00:20:32.560 --> 00:20:32.941
 the role of the
 
 00:20:32.961 --> 00:20:33.682
 Green Mountain Boys,
 
 00:20:33.821 --> 00:20:35.942
 rather than schemes that were hatched in
 
 00:20:36.222 --> 00:20:37.324
 Cambridge and Hartford.
 
 00:20:38.605 --> 00:20:40.246
 And they say, if we hadn't captured this,
 
 00:20:40.465 --> 00:20:41.787
 if these locals hadn't captured it,
 
 00:20:41.807 --> 00:20:43.488
 the British would use this as this
 
 00:20:43.568 --> 00:20:46.330
 launchpad to invade the back parts of New
 
 00:20:46.351 --> 00:20:48.211
 York and Massachusetts,
 
 00:20:48.511 --> 00:20:50.413
 which the British had discussed,
 
 00:20:50.472 --> 00:20:52.875
 but I don't think was an open idea
 
 00:20:53.295 --> 00:20:53.955
 on their part of
 
 00:20:54.316 --> 00:20:56.797
 quite at this stage.
 
 00:20:57.518 --> 00:21:00.559
 And, you know, their first order was to,
 
 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:01.240
 yes,
 
 00:21:01.420 --> 00:21:02.861
 inventory the cannon that had been
 
 00:21:02.901 --> 00:21:04.942
 captured at Ticonderoga and Crown Point,
 
 00:21:05.221 --> 00:21:07.482
 but to shift them southward to Fort George
 
 00:21:07.502 --> 00:21:08.983
 at the other end of Lake George,
 
 00:21:09.223 --> 00:21:10.664
 where they could be kind of safely
 
 00:21:10.724 --> 00:21:12.726
 monitored so that when all of this is
 
 00:21:12.826 --> 00:21:13.507
 over with the British,
 
 00:21:13.527 --> 00:21:14.886
 they can be handed back with the full
 
 00:21:14.906 --> 00:21:15.367
 accounting.
 
 00:21:15.387 --> 00:21:15.887
 Wow.
 
 00:21:15.928 --> 00:21:16.268
 Wow.
 
 00:21:17.067 --> 00:21:17.568
 It's amazing.
 
 00:21:18.269 --> 00:21:18.409
 Amazing.
 
 00:21:18.429 --> 00:21:19.490
 We're talking with Matt Kegel,
 
 00:21:19.509 --> 00:21:21.351
 the curator at Fort Ticonderoga,
 
 00:21:21.411 --> 00:21:23.051
 talking about this amazing story of the
 
 00:21:23.092 --> 00:21:23.571
 fort and this
 
 00:21:24.001 --> 00:21:25.541
 cache of cannon that are there.
 
 00:21:25.561 --> 00:21:27.182
 And then of course our friend Henry Knox,
 
 00:21:27.863 --> 00:21:28.963
 we know the cannon are there.
 
 00:21:29.023 --> 00:21:30.743
 So he is the one who goes out
 
 00:21:30.763 --> 00:21:33.184
 to get them then in late,
 
 00:21:33.224 --> 00:21:35.665
 so let's talk about that.
 
 00:21:35.705 --> 00:21:38.326
 So who is he at this time?
 
 00:21:38.886 --> 00:21:39.767
 How does he get there?
 
 00:21:42.528 --> 00:21:43.367
 What do you do when he gets there?
 
 00:21:44.147 --> 00:21:47.269
 Knox is, again, he's quite young.
 
 00:21:47.308 --> 00:21:48.630
 He's a volunteer with the army.
 
 00:21:48.650 --> 00:21:49.809
 He has no formal rank.
 
 00:21:49.910 --> 00:21:52.310
 He's in his correspondence.
 
 00:21:54.218 --> 00:21:56.920
 rejected an offer that at least is
 
 00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:59.320
 discussed about him to get a commission as
 
 00:21:59.340 --> 00:22:00.662
 a lieutenant colonel of engineers he's
 
 00:22:00.701 --> 00:22:02.403
 holding out for colonel of artillery you
 
 00:22:02.423 --> 00:22:03.423
 know i think he has a good sense
 
 00:22:03.462 --> 00:22:06.184
 of his his confidence and his abilities um
 
 00:22:06.325 --> 00:22:07.526
 and this is a way to you know
 
 00:22:07.586 --> 00:22:09.487
 prove his his chops where i think to
 
 00:22:09.527 --> 00:22:10.867
 washington who signed him with his
 
 00:22:10.907 --> 00:22:13.308
 expedition so he's young he's eager he's
 
 00:22:13.368 --> 00:22:15.309
 ambitious interestingly enough though you
 
 00:22:15.329 --> 00:22:16.911
 know he's an interesting choice for this
 
 00:22:16.951 --> 00:22:17.231
 because
 
 00:22:17.991 --> 00:22:18.551
 To my knowledge,
 
 00:22:18.571 --> 00:22:20.134
 he has no experience with New York.
 
 00:22:21.213 --> 00:22:22.414
 He's a Boston boy.
 
 00:22:23.395 --> 00:22:26.958
 And this is really outside of his world
 
 00:22:26.998 --> 00:22:27.778
 in some ways.
 
 00:22:28.118 --> 00:22:29.440
 And I think it is important to remember
 
 00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:31.480
 alongside this that Knox has given his
 
 00:22:31.520 --> 00:22:32.021
 instructions.
 
 00:22:32.041 --> 00:22:33.122
 And on the same day,
 
 00:22:33.423 --> 00:22:35.084
 Washington pens another set of
 
 00:22:35.124 --> 00:22:37.144
 instructions to Major General Philip
 
 00:22:37.184 --> 00:22:37.605
 Schuyler,
 
 00:22:37.865 --> 00:22:38.885
 who's in command of the Northern
 
 00:22:38.905 --> 00:22:39.946
 Department of the Continental Army,
 
 00:22:40.027 --> 00:22:41.188
 which basically says,
 
 00:22:41.768 --> 00:22:43.609
 get stuff ready and help him out.
 
 00:22:44.210 --> 00:22:46.111
 So Knox is going to lean throughout this
 
 00:22:46.171 --> 00:22:48.252
 expedition on Schuyler's, you know,
 
 00:22:48.292 --> 00:22:50.354
 both kind of commanding presence,
 
 00:22:50.713 --> 00:22:52.015
 both militarily and socially,
 
 00:22:52.295 --> 00:22:54.737
 but also his understanding of the region
 
 00:22:54.777 --> 00:22:55.616
 and of the area.
 
 00:22:56.258 --> 00:22:57.979
 And another thing that we often forget is
 
 00:22:57.999 --> 00:23:00.320
 that Knox first does not go directly to
 
 00:23:00.340 --> 00:23:00.961
 Ticonderoga.
 
 00:23:01.020 --> 00:23:02.102
 He goes to New York City.
 
 00:23:03.163 --> 00:23:04.384
 um because they're trying to see what's
 
 00:23:04.423 --> 00:23:07.125
 there that they might use he doesn't find
 
 00:23:07.287 --> 00:23:08.988
 as much success there I think in no
 
 00:23:09.028 --> 00:23:10.630
 small part because New York is trying to
 
 00:23:10.650 --> 00:23:13.011
 fortify itself right speaking out its
 
 00:23:13.092 --> 00:23:15.795
 Revolutionary government and defense but
 
 00:23:15.835 --> 00:23:17.596
 he makes some introductions he's able to
 
 00:23:17.616 --> 00:23:19.459
 go shopping a bit which he writes about
 
 00:23:20.038 --> 00:23:21.381
 um and he he leaves New York which
 
 00:23:21.401 --> 00:23:22.602
 he's recently married
 
 00:23:22.801 --> 00:23:23.982
 Yeah, exactly.
 
 00:23:24.682 --> 00:23:26.443
 With a couple of interesting notes.
 
 00:23:27.144 --> 00:23:28.704
 One of the things that he notes in
 
 00:23:28.724 --> 00:23:29.444
 his diary,
 
 00:23:30.285 --> 00:23:31.645
 he makes a little memorandum of things to
 
 00:23:31.685 --> 00:23:32.046
 buy,
 
 00:23:32.346 --> 00:23:33.547
 is he wants to buy a print of
 
 00:23:33.567 --> 00:23:34.606
 the death of Wolfe,
 
 00:23:35.007 --> 00:23:36.508
 which I find captivating.
 
 00:23:36.907 --> 00:23:38.108
 That, you know, he is,
 
 00:23:38.709 --> 00:23:40.308
 we're still in a world where these are
 
 00:23:40.390 --> 00:23:41.609
 British Americans.
 
 00:23:42.430 --> 00:23:43.830
 And James Wolfe, you know,
 
 00:23:43.891 --> 00:23:45.271
 who wins the Battle of Quebec against the
 
 00:23:45.291 --> 00:23:45.571
 French,
 
 00:23:45.612 --> 00:23:48.153
 is still such an iconic figure in the
 
 00:23:48.212 --> 00:23:50.173
 creation of this broader British American
 
 00:23:50.232 --> 00:23:51.554
 empire that Knox,
 
 00:23:51.574 --> 00:23:53.295
 who is actively on a mission to get
 
 00:23:53.335 --> 00:23:55.355
 cannon to bombard the British army,
 
 00:23:55.955 --> 00:23:58.435
 still feels compelled to have a print of
 
 00:23:58.496 --> 00:24:00.057
 this particular event and individual.
 
 00:24:00.817 --> 00:24:03.057
 He also leaves probably the most timeless
 
 00:24:03.137 --> 00:24:04.638
 piece of text from the Revolutionary War
 
 00:24:04.679 --> 00:24:06.419
 as he heads out of New York City
 
 00:24:06.499 --> 00:24:06.740
 saying,
 
 00:24:06.779 --> 00:24:08.299
 I'm very glad to leave as it is
 
 00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:11.101
 very expensive here and reminds us that
 
 00:24:11.141 --> 00:24:12.342
 some things have not changed.
 
 00:24:12.521 --> 00:24:13.281
 That's right.
 
 00:24:13.561 --> 00:24:14.501
 years.
 
 00:24:14.521 --> 00:24:16.282
 So he then goes up the Hudson Valley.
 
 00:24:16.782 --> 00:24:18.083
 By the way, Matt, who's he with?
 
 00:24:18.103 --> 00:24:20.523
 Does he have a retinue?
 
 00:24:21.163 --> 00:24:21.443
 Yeah,
 
 00:24:21.663 --> 00:24:22.984
 so he doesn't have a lot with him.
 
 00:24:23.125 --> 00:24:24.605
 He's given a thousand dollars by
 
 00:24:24.664 --> 00:24:26.965
 Washington to accomplish this mission and
 
 00:24:27.365 --> 00:24:28.967
 really sets out just with his brother
 
 00:24:29.007 --> 00:24:30.666
 William, his younger brother.
 
 00:24:30.926 --> 00:24:31.846
 So he doesn't have,
 
 00:24:31.886 --> 00:24:33.167
 and I think this is important to remember,
 
 00:24:33.468 --> 00:24:35.709
 he doesn't have a coterie of soldiers.
 
 00:24:36.088 --> 00:24:37.969
 He doesn't have a unit with him.
 
 00:24:38.269 --> 00:24:39.750
 He has no military command
 
 00:24:40.490 --> 00:24:42.290
 Yet his commission,
 
 00:24:42.310 --> 00:24:43.451
 his appointment as colonel of the
 
 00:24:43.490 --> 00:24:45.731
 artillery actually comes while he's on
 
 00:24:45.771 --> 00:24:46.752
 this expedition.
 
 00:24:47.553 --> 00:24:49.314
 And some people later give him the
 
 00:24:49.334 --> 00:24:51.414
 honorific of colonel while this is all
 
 00:24:51.454 --> 00:24:52.015
 underway.
 
 00:24:52.795 --> 00:24:54.056
 But he doesn't actually get his commission
 
 00:24:54.115 --> 00:24:55.215
 in hand until he gets back to
 
 00:24:55.256 --> 00:24:56.037
 Massachusetts.
 
 00:24:56.497 --> 00:24:58.217
 So he's basically on his own.
 
 00:24:58.257 --> 00:24:59.557
 He's meeting with other Continental
 
 00:24:59.597 --> 00:25:00.698
 officials in New York.
 
 00:25:03.320 --> 00:25:05.383
 Colonel McDougal in New York and other
 
 00:25:05.443 --> 00:25:06.003
 officers.
 
 00:25:06.285 --> 00:25:07.645
 Of course, as he gets further north,
 
 00:25:08.007 --> 00:25:10.770
 it's Philip Schuyler and Colonel James
 
 00:25:10.830 --> 00:25:12.752
 Holmes, who's in command at Ticonderoga.
 
 00:25:13.574 --> 00:25:14.976
 So him and William head northward up the
 
 00:25:15.016 --> 00:25:17.318
 Hudson and then down the...
 
 00:25:18.721 --> 00:25:21.384
 Lake Champlain Valley to Ticonderoga,
 
 00:25:21.584 --> 00:25:24.105
 where he arrives on December fifth to
 
 00:25:24.125 --> 00:25:24.946
 Ticonderoga.
 
 00:25:25.366 --> 00:25:28.390
 And Knox himself does not have to do
 
 00:25:28.410 --> 00:25:30.951
 the work of entirely saying,
 
 00:25:31.011 --> 00:25:32.093
 I want this gun and this gun and
 
 00:25:32.113 --> 00:25:32.874
 this gun and this gun,
 
 00:25:33.134 --> 00:25:35.155
 because Schuyler has already instructed
 
 00:25:35.195 --> 00:25:37.577
 the garrison at Ticonderoga to start that
 
 00:25:37.637 --> 00:25:38.179
 process.
 
 00:25:38.739 --> 00:25:39.519
 And again,
 
 00:25:39.538 --> 00:25:42.721
 going back even to the spring after Fort
 
 00:25:42.740 --> 00:25:44.221
 Ticonderoga was captured,
 
 00:25:44.921 --> 00:25:47.622
 Congress orders the cannon southwards.
 
 00:25:47.883 --> 00:25:49.603
 That doesn't seem to have ever fully been
 
 00:25:49.643 --> 00:25:51.384
 accomplished for a host of reasons.
 
 00:25:52.223 --> 00:25:54.244
 The strategic initiative shifts.
 
 00:25:54.565 --> 00:25:56.266
 They look towards Canada eventually.
 
 00:25:57.066 --> 00:25:57.865
 And by August,
 
 00:25:57.885 --> 00:25:59.307
 they're launching an invasion of Canada.
 
 00:25:59.767 --> 00:26:02.449
 But Benedict Arnold had actually started
 
 00:26:02.608 --> 00:26:04.890
 in late May and June to get cannon
 
 00:26:04.950 --> 00:26:06.510
 moving from Crown Point,
 
 00:26:06.530 --> 00:26:08.932
 from Ticonderoga southward and then to
 
 00:26:08.992 --> 00:26:10.913
 Fort George to start that process.
 
 00:26:11.114 --> 00:26:12.674
 He didn't have the manpower or the time
 
 00:26:12.974 --> 00:26:13.776
 to finish it,
 
 00:26:14.096 --> 00:26:15.155
 but a little bit of that had been
 
 00:26:15.195 --> 00:26:15.436
 done.
 
 00:26:15.537 --> 00:26:17.657
 And some of his accounting also identified
 
 00:26:18.739 --> 00:26:20.599
 of the two hundred or so guns that
 
 00:26:20.619 --> 00:26:20.940
 were here,
 
 00:26:20.980 --> 00:26:22.401
 depending on how we classify them,
 
 00:26:22.740 --> 00:26:24.241
 which ones were actually good and which
 
 00:26:24.301 --> 00:26:26.722
 ones were simply for further use because
 
 00:26:26.863 --> 00:26:28.304
 some of them had been laying out for
 
 00:26:28.544 --> 00:26:29.045
 so long.
 
 00:26:29.545 --> 00:26:32.007
 but Schuyler's men at Ticonderoga who are
 
 00:26:32.047 --> 00:26:35.269
 largely New York Continentals were able to
 
 00:26:35.308 --> 00:26:36.489
 do some of that work they're able to
 
 00:26:36.569 --> 00:26:38.451
 not only move some guns from Crown Point
 
 00:26:38.471 --> 00:26:40.951
 to Ticonderoga move some guns out of
 
 00:26:41.011 --> 00:26:43.973
 Ticonderoga the fort to the various kind
 
 00:26:43.993 --> 00:26:46.236
 of staging points along their way to the
 
 00:26:46.276 --> 00:26:47.576
 northern end of Lake George where they
 
 00:26:47.596 --> 00:26:49.017
 would it would make the first leg of
 
 00:26:49.037 --> 00:26:51.759
 their journey really by water so Knox's is
 
 00:26:51.878 --> 00:26:53.420
 overseeing in just a matter of days that
 
 00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:54.401
 he's here the kind of
 
 00:26:54.800 --> 00:26:58.503
 final assessment and and selection of
 
 00:26:58.544 --> 00:27:00.325
 those guns but a lot of it had
 
 00:27:00.346 --> 00:27:02.507
 been done before him and and it's
 
 00:27:02.547 --> 00:27:05.430
 interesting that he very much follows both
 
 00:27:05.549 --> 00:27:07.852
 both the spirit and the letter of
 
 00:27:07.912 --> 00:27:09.413
 Washington's instructions because
 
 00:27:09.452 --> 00:27:11.233
 Washington says you know these are vital
 
 00:27:11.273 --> 00:27:14.016
 tools get them from Ticonderoga get them
 
 00:27:14.036 --> 00:27:16.557
 from Crown Point get them from Montreal
 
 00:27:16.578 --> 00:27:18.900
 get them from Quebec if it has fallen
 
 00:27:18.980 --> 00:27:19.621
 to us and
 
 00:27:20.260 --> 00:27:22.083
 The fact that Quebec might have fallen was
 
 00:27:22.262 --> 00:27:22.803
 a possibility.
 
 00:27:22.823 --> 00:27:23.864
 Of course,
 
 00:27:23.983 --> 00:27:25.884
 Arnold had launched his operation up the
 
 00:27:25.924 --> 00:27:26.385
 Kennebec.
 
 00:27:27.145 --> 00:27:28.926
 By the time Knox arrives here,
 
 00:27:29.327 --> 00:27:30.669
 the Continental Army under Richard
 
 00:27:30.709 --> 00:27:32.609
 Montgomery has captured Fort Chambly,
 
 00:27:32.890 --> 00:27:33.810
 Fort Saint-Jean.
 
 00:27:34.010 --> 00:27:36.432
 They've captured Montreal itself and are
 
 00:27:36.472 --> 00:27:37.333
 driving northward.
 
 00:27:37.673 --> 00:27:38.933
 And by the middle of November,
 
 00:27:38.973 --> 00:27:39.815
 they've captured Quebec.
 
 00:27:40.015 --> 00:27:41.715
 almost the entirety of the British Army in
 
 00:27:41.756 --> 00:27:42.176
 Canada.
 
 00:27:43.356 --> 00:27:45.078
 Guns from all of those positions,
 
 00:27:45.098 --> 00:27:47.180
 from Chambly, from Saint-Jean,
 
 00:27:47.220 --> 00:27:49.000
 both in the batteries on the shore and
 
 00:27:49.040 --> 00:27:51.103
 from the vessels they captured in the
 
 00:27:51.143 --> 00:27:53.304
 river, the Royal Savage in particular,
 
 00:27:53.523 --> 00:27:55.665
 they're stripping the better guns from and
 
 00:27:55.726 --> 00:27:57.666
 sending them south to Ticonderoga.
 
 00:27:57.686 --> 00:27:59.387
 Knox is able to select those for the
 
 00:27:59.407 --> 00:28:00.189
 final expedition.
 
 00:28:00.628 --> 00:28:02.592
 So when we talk about the expedition to
 
 00:28:02.632 --> 00:28:03.393
 Ticonderoga,
 
 00:28:03.732 --> 00:28:05.715
 he comes physically to Ticonderoga,
 
 00:28:06.056 --> 00:28:07.337
 but the guns come from there.
 
 00:28:07.557 --> 00:28:08.599
 They come from Crown Point.
 
 00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:09.760
 They come from Saint-Jean.
 
 00:28:09.961 --> 00:28:11.844
 They come from Chambly and even Fort
 
 00:28:11.884 --> 00:28:14.166
 George that are collected from the usable,
 
 00:28:14.207 --> 00:28:16.230
 the best pieces that he can take and
 
 00:28:16.269 --> 00:28:16.931
 bring to Boston.
 
 00:28:17.494 --> 00:28:19.276
 So it's not just that this artillery has
 
 00:28:19.296 --> 00:28:21.017
 been sitting there since the end of the
 
 00:28:21.156 --> 00:28:22.178
 French and Indian War,
 
 00:28:22.238 --> 00:28:24.298
 that this is actually still part of an
 
 00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:26.060
 active military campaign.
 
 00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:27.240
 Yes, yes.
 
 00:28:27.381 --> 00:28:28.221
 And there are, you know,
 
 00:28:28.261 --> 00:28:29.103
 some of the guns, frankly,
 
 00:28:29.123 --> 00:28:31.003
 that are taken at Fort Saint-Jean in
 
 00:28:31.263 --> 00:28:32.884
 Canada on the Richelieu are some of the
 
 00:28:32.904 --> 00:28:34.306
 best guns that Knox takes,
 
 00:28:34.365 --> 00:28:37.028
 particularly some bronze field pieces,
 
 00:28:37.048 --> 00:28:38.188
 some of the lighter artillery.
 
 00:28:39.009 --> 00:28:40.910
 But he's also able to select, again,
 
 00:28:41.170 --> 00:28:43.071
 from guns probably as old as some of
 
 00:28:43.092 --> 00:28:44.372
 the French pieces that were there.
 
 00:28:44.432 --> 00:28:44.732
 In fact,
 
 00:28:45.353 --> 00:28:46.712
 One of the very few guns that we
 
 00:28:46.752 --> 00:28:49.653
 can say with confidence was one of those
 
 00:28:49.693 --> 00:28:52.134
 that Knox took on the expedition is a
 
 00:28:52.194 --> 00:28:53.875
 thirteen inch mortar that we have in our
 
 00:28:53.895 --> 00:28:56.355
 collection here that was actually French.
 
 00:28:56.415 --> 00:28:58.797
 It had fired on Geoffrey Amherst's army in
 
 00:28:58.836 --> 00:28:59.817
 seventeen fifty nine.
 
 00:29:00.397 --> 00:29:03.098
 And it had also been sent northward to
 
 00:29:03.199 --> 00:29:05.578
 support the invasion of Canada,
 
 00:29:05.878 --> 00:29:06.980
 the siege of Saint-Jean,
 
 00:29:07.259 --> 00:29:08.799
 until they ran out of ammunition for it.
 
 00:29:09.079 --> 00:29:10.921
 And then it got sent back to Ticonderoga.
 
 00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:12.821
 So some of these guns have gone here
 
 00:29:12.842 --> 00:29:13.682
 and there and here and there,
 
 00:29:14.483 --> 00:29:16.526
 even within the past few months,
 
 00:29:16.945 --> 00:29:19.448
 not just in the last war.
 
 00:29:19.468 --> 00:29:20.769
 So that particular mortar,
 
 00:29:20.808 --> 00:29:22.451
 it had gone up to Fort St.
 
 00:29:22.550 --> 00:29:22.691
 John,
 
 00:29:22.711 --> 00:29:24.633
 then it comes back and then knocks to
 
 00:29:24.692 --> 00:29:25.814
 that's one that he's going to take to
 
 00:29:25.854 --> 00:29:26.213
 Boston.
 
 00:29:26.808 --> 00:29:28.931
 Yes.
 
 00:29:29.550 --> 00:29:33.054
 It was actually a pair of technically
 
 00:29:33.074 --> 00:29:35.036
 their French twelve pouce mortars,
 
 00:29:35.056 --> 00:29:36.596
 the pouce being the French inch,
 
 00:29:36.616 --> 00:29:38.438
 which is a little bigger than the English
 
 00:29:38.498 --> 00:29:38.618
 inch.
 
 00:29:38.679 --> 00:29:40.359
 So if you measure it with English tools,
 
 00:29:40.460 --> 00:29:41.820
 it's going to be a little over twelve.
 
 00:29:41.840 --> 00:29:42.862
 So they called it thirteen,
 
 00:29:42.882 --> 00:29:44.462
 which is the next equivalent in the
 
 00:29:44.542 --> 00:29:45.203
 English system.
 
 00:29:45.784 --> 00:29:46.964
 And when Knox finds this,
 
 00:29:47.005 --> 00:29:49.125
 this is huge because that's the biggest
 
 00:29:49.165 --> 00:29:50.886
 type of mortar that you have at this
 
 00:29:50.906 --> 00:29:51.527
 time period.
 
 00:29:51.787 --> 00:29:54.067
 And he finds three of them at Ticonderoga,
 
 00:29:54.188 --> 00:29:57.369
 this brace of French ones and one English
 
 00:29:57.410 --> 00:29:58.089
 thirteen-inch mortar.
 
 00:29:58.109 --> 00:29:59.510
 He takes them all to Boston.
 
 00:29:59.990 --> 00:30:00.151
 Now,
 
 00:30:00.191 --> 00:30:01.932
 he might not have had the ammunition he
 
 00:30:01.971 --> 00:30:03.893
 needed for them initially because he
 
 00:30:03.913 --> 00:30:05.453
 didn't expect to find them there.
 
 00:30:05.473 --> 00:30:05.953
 And this, I think,
 
 00:30:06.054 --> 00:30:08.296
 underscores the lack of communication at
 
 00:30:08.316 --> 00:30:10.236
 this point in the war when there's a
 
 00:30:10.336 --> 00:30:10.596
 little...
 
 00:30:11.636 --> 00:30:14.078
 kind of tension between these different
 
 00:30:14.098 --> 00:30:15.000
 colonial entities,
 
 00:30:15.259 --> 00:30:16.882
 Benedict Arnold had identified these
 
 00:30:16.922 --> 00:30:17.301
 mortars.
 
 00:30:17.923 --> 00:30:18.202
 He said,
 
 00:30:18.323 --> 00:30:19.064
 how are we going to get them to
 
 00:30:19.084 --> 00:30:19.564
 Boston?
 
 00:30:20.005 --> 00:30:20.765
 Evidently, though,
 
 00:30:20.964 --> 00:30:23.227
 the information of that never got to Knox
 
 00:30:23.267 --> 00:30:25.769
 before going to Ticonderoga because he's
 
 00:30:25.809 --> 00:30:27.750
 surprised to find them there and has to
 
 00:30:27.790 --> 00:30:29.633
 write to New York to see if they
 
 00:30:29.673 --> 00:30:30.933
 have any ammunition for them.
 
 00:30:31.013 --> 00:30:31.795
 Because, again,
 
 00:30:31.815 --> 00:30:33.056
 they're this French caliber,
 
 00:30:33.155 --> 00:30:34.057
 not the English one.
 
 00:30:34.557 --> 00:30:35.798
 And they've used up most of the shells
 
 00:30:35.817 --> 00:30:37.259
 that they have in the siege of Saint-Jean.
 
 00:30:37.618 --> 00:30:39.881
 So they get to the siege lines outside
 
 00:30:39.901 --> 00:30:40.582
 of Boston.
 
 00:30:40.902 --> 00:30:43.923
 But it appears that it's likely only one
 
 00:30:43.963 --> 00:30:45.884
 of the three mortars of this size they
 
 00:30:45.904 --> 00:30:47.666
 bring into action against the British in
 
 00:30:47.747 --> 00:30:48.186
 March.
 
 00:30:48.586 --> 00:30:50.449
 And it's probably the English mortar
 
 00:30:50.689 --> 00:30:52.089
 because they had ammunition for it,
 
 00:30:52.130 --> 00:30:54.372
 having captured an English supply ship
 
 00:30:54.412 --> 00:30:56.073
 with another thirteen inch mortar,
 
 00:30:56.113 --> 00:30:58.795
 although made of bronze in November of
 
 00:30:58.855 --> 00:31:00.016
 seventeen seventy five.
 
 00:31:00.695 --> 00:31:02.497
 which Knox knew about as he was heading
 
 00:31:02.537 --> 00:31:02.836
 up there.
 
 00:31:02.896 --> 00:31:04.156
 Gates writes to him and says, hey,
 
 00:31:04.176 --> 00:31:05.038
 just want to let you know,
 
 00:31:05.317 --> 00:31:07.137
 we made this great seizure of this British
 
 00:31:07.178 --> 00:31:07.858
 Wordmanship.
 
 00:31:08.118 --> 00:31:09.519
 We've got some excellent weaponry.
 
 00:31:09.798 --> 00:31:11.299
 Don't let that slow you down, though.
 
 00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:12.099
 We still need more.
 
 00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:13.000
 Get what you can.
 
 00:31:14.221 --> 00:31:16.421
 And so the gun makes its way back,
 
 00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:18.422
 this pair of guns makes its way to
 
 00:31:18.481 --> 00:31:19.001
 Boston.
 
 00:31:19.942 --> 00:31:20.823
 And from there,
 
 00:31:20.942 --> 00:31:22.923
 once the siege of Boston is lifted after
 
 00:31:22.963 --> 00:31:23.784
 evacuation,
 
 00:31:24.765 --> 00:31:26.346
 They actually head back to Canada.
 
 00:31:26.885 --> 00:31:28.248
 They're ordered back northward because by
 
 00:31:28.268 --> 00:31:28.728
 that point,
 
 00:31:29.388 --> 00:31:31.671
 an army is in desperate need of battering
 
 00:31:31.730 --> 00:31:33.092
 artillery, not for Boston,
 
 00:31:33.112 --> 00:31:34.512
 but to break the siege of Quebec.
 
 00:31:34.833 --> 00:31:34.972
 Right.
 
 00:31:34.992 --> 00:31:35.834
 And General Thomas,
 
 00:31:35.854 --> 00:31:37.496
 who had overseen placing the guns in
 
 00:31:37.516 --> 00:31:39.676
 Triconderoga, then also goes up to Canada.
 
 00:31:40.337 --> 00:31:40.897
 Exactly.
 
 00:31:40.938 --> 00:31:41.098
 Yeah.
 
 00:31:41.199 --> 00:31:41.439
 Right.
 
 00:31:41.558 --> 00:31:42.460
 Right in the wake of this.
 
 00:31:42.500 --> 00:31:45.382
 And I've read diaries from Massachusetts
 
 00:31:45.402 --> 00:31:45.843
 soldiers.
 
 00:31:46.383 --> 00:31:47.864
 And on March seventeenth,
 
 00:31:48.464 --> 00:31:49.605
 a lot of these soldiers say, well,
 
 00:31:49.625 --> 00:31:50.807
 the British are out of Boston and they
 
 00:31:50.826 --> 00:31:51.847
 get orders to head northward.
 
 00:31:52.127 --> 00:31:53.469
 because the situation in Canada has
 
 00:31:53.528 --> 00:31:56.371
 deteriorated so much by that point.
 
 00:31:56.431 --> 00:32:00.233
 So it's unclear exactly how many guns,
 
 00:32:00.273 --> 00:32:02.194
 but many of the guns that made the
 
 00:32:02.234 --> 00:32:04.317
 trip from Ticonderoga to the American
 
 00:32:04.356 --> 00:32:07.239
 siege lines then make a reverse journey
 
 00:32:07.914 --> 00:32:10.017
 back over Eastern Massachusetts,
 
 00:32:10.356 --> 00:32:11.357
 although diverted a bit,
 
 00:32:11.417 --> 00:32:13.500
 probably up towards Charlestown,
 
 00:32:13.539 --> 00:32:16.122
 Fort number four on the Connecticut River,
 
 00:32:16.541 --> 00:32:18.163
 over the military road to Crown Point,
 
 00:32:18.203 --> 00:32:19.744
 and then by water northwards.
 
 00:32:20.625 --> 00:32:21.746
 It's a portion of the guns,
 
 00:32:21.886 --> 00:32:23.048
 it's not all of them.
 
 00:32:23.667 --> 00:32:25.348
 Because there's still a lot of guns that
 
 00:32:25.368 --> 00:32:25.750
 are left.
 
 00:32:26.089 --> 00:32:28.231
 I've read letters from town fathers in
 
 00:32:28.271 --> 00:32:28.951
 Boston saying, hey,
 
 00:32:28.971 --> 00:32:30.133
 you need to leave us something to be
 
 00:32:30.173 --> 00:32:32.234
 able to defend the port if the British
 
 00:32:32.295 --> 00:32:33.036
 come back again.
 
 00:32:33.976 --> 00:32:35.696
 But all of the guns that were taken
 
 00:32:36.156 --> 00:32:37.998
 get dispersed with the Continental Army,
 
 00:32:38.038 --> 00:32:39.278
 some heading north to Canada,
 
 00:32:39.598 --> 00:32:41.378
 some heading south with Washington and his
 
 00:32:41.439 --> 00:32:44.000
 main army towards New York.
 
 00:32:44.020 --> 00:32:45.540
 We're talking with Dr. Matthew Kegel,
 
 00:32:45.560 --> 00:32:47.741
 who is the curator at Fort Ticonderoga,
 
 00:32:47.761 --> 00:32:50.423
 where he's responsible for research and
 
 00:32:50.542 --> 00:32:52.124
 acquisition and development of their
 
 00:32:52.163 --> 00:32:52.723
 collection,
 
 00:32:52.743 --> 00:32:54.424
 the tremendous collection of
 
 00:32:55.070 --> 00:32:57.232
 not only canon, but other things.
 
 00:32:57.472 --> 00:32:59.834
 And it also supervises the great
 
 00:32:59.894 --> 00:33:00.914
 exhibitions they have,
 
 00:33:01.055 --> 00:33:03.957
 which have won awards from various museum
 
 00:33:03.997 --> 00:33:06.098
 associations for terrific exhibits.
 
 00:33:06.298 --> 00:33:08.220
 And I know you do teacher workshops,
 
 00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:10.241
 you do all kinds of other exciting things.
 
 00:33:12.222 --> 00:33:14.384
 And then let's just talk about Knoxville,
 
 00:33:14.404 --> 00:33:15.806
 because here he's gotten there,
 
 00:33:15.846 --> 00:33:16.705
 there are the guns there.
 
 00:33:17.106 --> 00:33:19.188
 So physically, how is,
 
 00:33:19.548 --> 00:33:20.348
 are he and his brother
 
 00:33:21.479 --> 00:33:24.640
 gonna get these guns to Boston.
 
 00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:25.701
 Yeah,
 
 00:33:25.760 --> 00:33:26.621
 so he's got a lot of ground to
 
 00:33:26.661 --> 00:33:27.721
 cover, obviously.
 
 00:33:28.520 --> 00:33:29.801
 And it's interesting because there are,
 
 00:33:29.821 --> 00:33:31.221
 you know,
 
 00:33:31.481 --> 00:33:33.383
 we can identify probably at least three
 
 00:33:33.442 --> 00:33:34.943
 distinct phases, I think,
 
 00:33:35.463 --> 00:33:36.423
 of this operation.
 
 00:33:36.864 --> 00:33:40.285
 The first being basically from Ticonderoga
 
 00:33:40.404 --> 00:33:42.586
 to the southern end of Lake George,
 
 00:33:42.865 --> 00:33:45.866
 when the transportation work is largely in
 
 00:33:45.906 --> 00:33:47.448
 the hands of the Continental Army because
 
 00:33:47.468 --> 00:33:48.548
 there are garrisons here.
 
 00:33:49.107 --> 00:33:51.369
 Because although Ticonderoga is no longer
 
 00:33:51.410 --> 00:33:52.269
 the front line,
 
 00:33:52.691 --> 00:33:54.951
 it's this vital node on the network of
 
 00:33:55.011 --> 00:33:56.953
 resupply and of moving troops and material
 
 00:33:57.013 --> 00:33:58.255
 northward to Canada now.
 
 00:33:58.694 --> 00:34:00.036
 So there's a continental garrison.
 
 00:34:00.316 --> 00:34:01.757
 The soldiers are there to help him.
 
 00:34:01.817 --> 00:34:03.719
 Some of the money that Knox has,
 
 00:34:04.038 --> 00:34:07.000
 he doles out to their officers to pay
 
 00:34:07.020 --> 00:34:08.461
 these men for the work that they have
 
 00:34:08.501 --> 00:34:10.202
 done transporting guns,
 
 00:34:10.664 --> 00:34:12.784
 basically hoisting them off the ground
 
 00:34:12.945 --> 00:34:14.806
 onto wagons, carts, and sleds,
 
 00:34:14.907 --> 00:34:16.307
 moving them across the
 
 00:34:16.628 --> 00:34:18.768
 the portage from Lake Champlain to Lake
 
 00:34:18.789 --> 00:34:19.168
 George,
 
 00:34:19.449 --> 00:34:21.329
 and then loading them in effectively small
 
 00:34:21.369 --> 00:34:23.630
 boats to go across Lake George.
 
 00:34:24.329 --> 00:34:25.050
 And it takes, you know,
 
 00:34:25.090 --> 00:34:26.811
 multiple trips for the volume of guns.
 
 00:34:27.510 --> 00:34:28.612
 One of the vessels, you know,
 
 00:34:28.952 --> 00:34:31.012
 basically founders and starts to sink.
 
 00:34:31.251 --> 00:34:32.672
 They have to raise her up again.
 
 00:34:33.733 --> 00:34:35.574
 And they're racing against the weather,
 
 00:34:35.634 --> 00:34:35.853
 too,
 
 00:34:35.873 --> 00:34:36.333
 because it's
 
 00:34:36.414 --> 00:34:37.655
 getting increasingly cold.
 
 00:34:37.936 --> 00:34:39.217
 By the time some of the last boats
 
 00:34:39.277 --> 00:34:41.518
 come into the end of Lake George,
 
 00:34:41.539 --> 00:34:42.559
 where Fort George is,
 
 00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:44.442
 the ice is starting to form on the
 
 00:34:44.481 --> 00:34:45.282
 surface of the lake.
 
 00:34:45.623 --> 00:34:47.164
 And so if that had fully frozen,
 
 00:34:47.184 --> 00:34:48.606
 it would have changed the calculus of how
 
 00:34:48.646 --> 00:34:50.369
 they move, made it a lot harder.
 
 00:34:50.409 --> 00:34:51.769
 It's obviously a lot easier to move heavy
 
 00:34:51.809 --> 00:34:53.652
 commodities over water in floating
 
 00:34:53.692 --> 00:34:54.152
 vessels.
 
 00:34:54.833 --> 00:34:55.753
 than it is otherwise.
 
 00:34:56.052 --> 00:34:57.733
 And then the guns get dropped off at
 
 00:34:57.753 --> 00:34:58.333
 Fort George.
 
 00:34:58.594 --> 00:35:00.273
 But it's important to remember that south
 
 00:35:00.333 --> 00:35:01.094
 of Fort George,
 
 00:35:01.474 --> 00:35:05.175
 there is a very limited military presence.
 
 00:35:05.554 --> 00:35:05.735
 You know,
 
 00:35:05.755 --> 00:35:07.956
 you don't have Continental Army garrisons
 
 00:35:07.996 --> 00:35:10.496
 the same way because the manpower is so
 
 00:35:10.556 --> 00:35:12.036
 slim and it's so needed to support the
 
 00:35:12.077 --> 00:35:12.556
 invasion.
 
 00:35:13.277 --> 00:35:15.336
 There's some officers and such in Albany
 
 00:35:15.376 --> 00:35:15.896
 and elsewhere,
 
 00:35:16.197 --> 00:35:17.398
 but it's not like you have the same
 
 00:35:17.458 --> 00:35:18.777
 amount of garrisons that can support this
 
 00:35:18.838 --> 00:35:19.057
 work.
 
 00:35:19.458 --> 00:35:19.938
 There,
 
 00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:23.440
 Knox needs to get civilians to assist with
 
 00:35:23.460 --> 00:35:23.641
 this.
 
 00:35:24.181 --> 00:35:25.722
 The second phase of this begins,
 
 00:35:26.202 --> 00:35:27.222
 what we might see is one of the
 
 00:35:27.242 --> 00:35:30.925
 greatest public private collaborations in
 
 00:35:30.965 --> 00:35:32.706
 American military history because he
 
 00:35:32.766 --> 00:35:34.266
 relies on civilians.
 
 00:35:34.887 --> 00:35:37.289
 This is also where Philip Schuyler really
 
 00:35:37.329 --> 00:35:40.331
 comes into play here because Schuyler
 
 00:35:40.733 --> 00:35:41.813
 knows the area.
 
 00:35:42.054 --> 00:35:44.096
 Knox had started to make negotiations with
 
 00:35:44.135 --> 00:35:46.418
 locals about making sleds and getting ox
 
 00:35:46.438 --> 00:35:47.418
 teams and everything else.
 
 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:48.681
 And Schuyler says, no, no, no,
 
 00:35:48.701 --> 00:35:49.061
 you don't need it.
 
 00:35:49.081 --> 00:35:50.262
 There's plenty of, you know,
 
 00:35:51.362 --> 00:35:52.063
 flesh, horse,
 
 00:35:52.083 --> 00:35:53.664
 flesh and ox flesh out there.
 
 00:35:53.884 --> 00:35:54.985
 There's plenty of vehicles.
 
 00:35:55.244 --> 00:35:56.505
 You just need to know where to get
 
 00:35:56.565 --> 00:35:56.644
 it.
 
 00:35:56.744 --> 00:35:57.726
 And I can do that.
 
 00:35:57.846 --> 00:35:58.905
 Let me help you with this.
 
 00:35:59.827 --> 00:36:02.108
 So he's able to set his network in
 
 00:36:02.168 --> 00:36:03.628
 motion through some of the continental
 
 00:36:03.668 --> 00:36:05.088
 commissary officers in Albany,
 
 00:36:05.128 --> 00:36:07.449
 but also just the local community to get
 
 00:36:07.510 --> 00:36:08.250
 them on board,
 
 00:36:08.289 --> 00:36:10.510
 to get them hired for this effort.
 
 00:36:10.992 --> 00:36:11.211
 And then
 
 00:36:12.132 --> 00:36:13.333
 On top of that as well,
 
 00:36:13.592 --> 00:36:15.673
 you've got the matter of the weather.
 
 00:36:15.713 --> 00:36:18.675
 This is where our image of the snow
 
 00:36:18.715 --> 00:36:21.177
 covering the landscape is actually a
 
 00:36:21.237 --> 00:36:23.038
 problem for him because there's not yet
 
 00:36:23.217 --> 00:36:26.739
 enough snow to create that dense bed that
 
 00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:29.402
 you can slide all these heavy things over.
 
 00:36:29.442 --> 00:36:31.043
 Then when the first snows seem to come,
 
 00:36:31.322 --> 00:36:33.103
 they're really deep and he has trouble
 
 00:36:33.143 --> 00:36:35.125
 even riding his horse to get further south
 
 00:36:35.644 --> 00:36:36.565
 to talk to Skylar.
 
 00:36:37.045 --> 00:36:39.126
 And so he's consistently dealing with the
 
 00:36:39.166 --> 00:36:39.527
 weather.
 
 00:36:40.246 --> 00:36:42.626
 He's effectively becalmed at Fort George
 
 00:36:42.686 --> 00:36:44.307
 for a few weeks,
 
 00:36:44.947 --> 00:36:46.887
 trying to get all of these things ironed
 
 00:36:47.007 --> 00:36:49.268
 out before they can kick this into motion.
 
 00:36:49.628 --> 00:36:51.969
 And they've contracted with these civilian
 
 00:36:51.989 --> 00:36:54.429
 teamsters who begin this journey headed
 
 00:36:54.510 --> 00:36:55.090
 southwards,
 
 00:36:55.170 --> 00:36:56.809
 where one of the biggest things they have
 
 00:36:56.849 --> 00:36:58.389
 to deal with on the New York leg
 
 00:36:58.429 --> 00:37:00.411
 of this is crossing bodies of water,
 
 00:37:00.570 --> 00:37:01.831
 the Mohawk and the Hudson.
 
 00:37:02.791 --> 00:37:05.811
 And Schuyler issues explicit instructions
 
 00:37:06.211 --> 00:37:08.353
 to those who are seeing you know going
 
 00:37:08.393 --> 00:37:11.034
 ahead of knox and helping the operation to
 
 00:37:11.074 --> 00:37:12.596
 make sure that you know when they get
 
 00:37:12.615 --> 00:37:14.097
 to a body of water you know the
 
 00:37:14.157 --> 00:37:17.179
 night before drill through the ice flood
 
 00:37:17.219 --> 00:37:19.880
 the ice to let it freeze overnight to
 
 00:37:19.900 --> 00:37:22.161
 get thicker and harder because some of the
 
 00:37:22.181 --> 00:37:24.302
 guns that knox is moving are you know
 
 00:37:24.822 --> 00:37:28.744
 two plus tons in weight a piece right
 
 00:37:28.784 --> 00:37:30.525
 collectively we're talking sixty tons but
 
 00:37:30.545 --> 00:37:31.967
 some of the individual cannons are
 
 00:37:32.007 --> 00:37:32.728
 multiple tons
 
 00:37:33.829 --> 00:37:34.068
 Amazing.
 
 00:37:34.230 --> 00:37:35.411
 It's a massive effort.
 
 00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:39.380
 It requires this network of people working
 
 00:37:39.500 --> 00:37:39.840
 ahead.
 
 00:37:40.059 --> 00:37:41.621
 Knox is often riding ahead of this
 
 00:37:41.681 --> 00:37:43.240
 expedition to meet up with the next people
 
 00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:43.782
 involved.
 
 00:37:45.922 --> 00:37:48.003
 He loses a couple guns through the ice.
 
 00:37:49.063 --> 00:37:50.903
 One of them falls through the Mohawk River
 
 00:37:51.023 --> 00:37:52.065
 and is never recovered.
 
 00:37:52.905 --> 00:37:53.385
 Eventually,
 
 00:37:53.425 --> 00:37:56.967
 they develop a protocol to basically have
 
 00:37:57.166 --> 00:37:57.626
 a system.
 
 00:37:57.646 --> 00:37:59.088
 When you're crossing a river,
 
 00:37:59.568 --> 00:38:01.548
 you want your sleds that the guns are
 
 00:38:01.608 --> 00:38:04.889
 mounted on attached to a longer lead rope.
 
 00:38:05.730 --> 00:38:07.811
 um and have log chains available so that
 
 00:38:08.172 --> 00:38:10.552
 if the gun starts to crack and it
 
 00:38:10.612 --> 00:38:12.773
 starts to go through the ice you can
 
 00:38:12.793 --> 00:38:14.255
 have your teamster who's got an axe in
 
 00:38:14.275 --> 00:38:16.295
 his hand cut that rope tie it to
 
 00:38:16.496 --> 00:38:18.356
 a stick or a log or something which
 
 00:38:18.376 --> 00:38:21.077
 can act as a buoy basically to identify
 
 00:38:21.117 --> 00:38:23.418
 the location of that gun but it's also
 
 00:38:23.478 --> 00:38:26.541
 long enough of a lead line that it's
 
 00:38:26.581 --> 00:38:28.262
 not going to drag the draft animals
 
 00:38:28.521 --> 00:38:28.722
 Right.
 
 00:38:28.942 --> 00:38:29.842
 Underwater with it.
 
 00:38:30.143 --> 00:38:31.724
 And then you lose the gun and you
 
 00:38:31.764 --> 00:38:34.827
 lose that force that you have.
 
 00:38:35.347 --> 00:38:37.228
 And by the time they get to crossing
 
 00:38:37.289 --> 00:38:38.530
 the Hudson near Albany,
 
 00:38:39.150 --> 00:38:40.570
 one of the biggest guns on the entire
 
 00:38:40.630 --> 00:38:42.333
 expedition goes through the ice.
 
 00:38:42.632 --> 00:38:44.494
 But because they have this in place,
 
 00:38:44.873 --> 00:38:45.494
 they're able to,
 
 00:38:45.534 --> 00:38:48.277
 with the physical help of the citizens of
 
 00:38:48.376 --> 00:38:50.579
 Albany, pull this gun out of the river.
 
 00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:53.121
 and salvage it and and knox writes that
 
 00:38:53.262 --> 00:38:54.983
 in in this you know because of this
 
 00:38:55.344 --> 00:38:56.786
 that gun is given the honor of being
 
 00:38:56.826 --> 00:39:00.610
 named the albany um of the patriotic
 
 00:39:00.630 --> 00:39:02.233
 people of the city that came out to
 
 00:39:02.273 --> 00:39:04.777
 save it it's amazing we're talking with dr
 
 00:39:04.817 --> 00:39:07.059
 matthew kegel from fort ticonderoga he is
 
 00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:09.481
 the curator we're talking about henry knox
 
 00:39:09.521 --> 00:39:09.742
 and this
 
 00:39:10.190 --> 00:39:12.092
 noble train of artillery he writes that in
 
 00:39:12.112 --> 00:39:13.972
 the letter to washington in i think the
 
 00:39:14.012 --> 00:39:15.753
 second week of december saying within two
 
 00:39:15.793 --> 00:39:18.114
 weeks i will deliver to your excellency a
 
 00:39:18.193 --> 00:39:21.114
 noble trainer he's optimistic but then yes
 
 00:39:21.195 --> 00:39:22.456
 he does get it done this must have
 
 00:39:22.476 --> 00:39:25.456
 been such a thing to see these guns
 
 00:39:25.476 --> 00:39:28.157
 the wagons the draft animals making this
 
 00:39:28.217 --> 00:39:29.958
 procession through new york and then
 
 00:39:32.001 --> 00:39:32.201
 Yeah.
 
 00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:32.862
 And we, you know,
 
 00:39:32.882 --> 00:39:35.083
 we get very kind of, you know,
 
 00:39:35.623 --> 00:39:38.126
 explicit accounts of this by the time the
 
 00:39:38.206 --> 00:39:39.807
 third leg begins,
 
 00:39:39.847 --> 00:39:41.550
 because by the time this expedition gets
 
 00:39:41.590 --> 00:39:42.230
 to Westfield,
 
 00:39:42.269 --> 00:39:43.471
 Springfield and Massachusetts,
 
 00:39:43.751 --> 00:39:44.813
 they drop the guns off.
 
 00:39:45.012 --> 00:39:46.253
 These are all New York teamsters.
 
 00:39:46.313 --> 00:39:47.074
 We're headed back home.
 
 00:39:47.414 --> 00:39:47.954
 Yeah.
 
 00:39:47.974 --> 00:39:49.295
 The last leg has to be picked up
 
 00:39:49.315 --> 00:39:50.195
 in Massachusetts.
 
 00:39:50.556 --> 00:39:52.117
 And in those towns, you know,
 
 00:39:53.396 --> 00:39:54.737
 the little information we have from
 
 00:39:55.018 --> 00:39:56.117
 participants, you know,
 
 00:39:56.157 --> 00:39:57.818
 say that basically everyone is turning out
 
 00:39:57.858 --> 00:39:59.420
 to see this stuff and they, you know,
 
 00:39:59.460 --> 00:40:00.940
 loaded up some powder in some of these
 
 00:40:00.980 --> 00:40:02.561
 and fired them off to give them a,
 
 00:40:02.621 --> 00:40:02.940
 you know,
 
 00:40:03.161 --> 00:40:05.081
 this kind of experience of the rumbling of
 
 00:40:05.121 --> 00:40:06.001
 these guns, which, you know,
 
 00:40:06.021 --> 00:40:07.242
 a lot of these country folk had never
 
 00:40:07.262 --> 00:40:07.802
 seen before.
 
 00:40:07.822 --> 00:40:09.583
 And then by the time, of course,
 
 00:40:09.603 --> 00:40:11.164
 they get to Framingham where they get
 
 00:40:11.264 --> 00:40:12.204
 dropped off.
 
 00:40:12.565 --> 00:40:14.565
 And remember, it's just the barrels.
 
 00:40:14.626 --> 00:40:15.385
 It's just the cannon.
 
 00:40:15.945 --> 00:40:18.146
 It's not their wheels or gun carriages.
 
 00:40:18.407 --> 00:40:19.547
 That all is going to be made in
 
 00:40:19.568 --> 00:40:20.768
 the American siege lines.
 
 00:40:21.289 --> 00:40:22.909
 And, you know, it draws the attention.
 
 00:40:22.929 --> 00:40:25.891
 John Adams goes to see, you know,
 
 00:40:25.951 --> 00:40:28.092
 what's up in this massive volume of
 
 00:40:28.152 --> 00:40:29.532
 artillery that's been brought to
 
 00:40:29.592 --> 00:40:30.512
 Washington's army.
 
 00:40:30.532 --> 00:40:31.592
 Tremendous.
 
 00:40:32.047 --> 00:40:32.168
 Now,
 
 00:40:32.268 --> 00:40:34.052
 I know you were planning a lot of
 
 00:40:34.072 --> 00:40:35.454
 things at Fort Tech-Ondrogan.
 
 00:40:35.474 --> 00:40:38.259
 I know towns and counties in New York
 
 00:40:38.298 --> 00:40:38.418
 have
 
 00:40:38.867 --> 00:40:39.947
 tremendous plans under.
 
 00:40:40.168 --> 00:40:42.309
 So what are you doing at Ticonderoga to
 
 00:40:42.369 --> 00:40:42.869
 commemorate?
 
 00:40:43.730 --> 00:40:45.331
 Well, right here at Ticonderoga,
 
 00:40:45.351 --> 00:40:47.391
 we have effectively three days of events
 
 00:40:47.452 --> 00:40:49.291
 planned to commemorate the beginning of
 
 00:40:49.331 --> 00:40:50.193
 this expedition.
 
 00:40:50.233 --> 00:40:51.333
 This is where it starts.
 
 00:40:52.114 --> 00:40:54.193
 That includes on Friday, December fifth,
 
 00:40:54.273 --> 00:40:55.755
 I'm going to be doing a special program
 
 00:40:55.775 --> 00:40:57.956
 which people can buy tickets for on our
 
 00:40:57.996 --> 00:41:00.237
 website called Ticonderoga's Treasures,
 
 00:41:00.297 --> 00:41:00.956
 Henry Knox.
 
 00:41:01.436 --> 00:41:03.157
 And we're going to pull out for people,
 
 00:41:03.398 --> 00:41:05.059
 give them the opportunity firsthand
 
 00:41:05.458 --> 00:41:08.141
 to see some of the letters and documents
 
 00:41:08.161 --> 00:41:10.563
 in our collection from Benedict Arnold,
 
 00:41:10.583 --> 00:41:12.445
 from Horatio Gates, Philip Schuyler,
 
 00:41:12.606 --> 00:41:15.208
 and Henry Knox that talk about all the
 
 00:41:15.228 --> 00:41:16.188
 things we've been discussing,
 
 00:41:16.228 --> 00:41:17.731
 the lead up to this expedition,
 
 00:41:17.951 --> 00:41:19.211
 the groundwork that had been laid,
 
 00:41:19.492 --> 00:41:21.014
 and then its operation.
 
 00:41:21.333 --> 00:41:23.994
 We're also going to pull those books from
 
 00:41:24.175 --> 00:41:25.875
 the library that I talked about that Knox
 
 00:41:25.954 --> 00:41:26.534
 recommended,
 
 00:41:26.635 --> 00:41:29.235
 where we can literally see the body of
 
 00:41:29.295 --> 00:41:31.916
 knowledge that Henry Knox recommended to
 
 00:41:31.996 --> 00:41:34.577
 Continental officers to train them to be
 
 00:41:34.637 --> 00:41:36.297
 soldiers during the Revolutionary War.
 
 00:41:36.737 --> 00:41:37.737
 And again,
 
 00:41:37.858 --> 00:41:41.378
 I'll be able to firsthand bring people to
 
 00:41:41.639 --> 00:41:42.679
 this one,
 
 00:41:42.739 --> 00:41:44.239
 thirteen inch mortar that we have that was
 
 00:41:44.340 --> 00:41:46.679
 part of that expedition and discuss some
 
 00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:48.019
 of the artillery in our collection that
 
 00:41:48.059 --> 00:41:49.701
 relates to Knox's experience.
 
 00:41:50.561 --> 00:41:52.083
 this is also something that can be done
 
 00:41:52.143 --> 00:41:53.545
 remotely so you can sign up for a
 
 00:41:53.605 --> 00:41:55.306
 virtual ticket for this it's not quite as
 
 00:41:55.327 --> 00:41:56.989
 good as being in the same room but
 
 00:41:57.128 --> 00:41:58.449
 it'll give you a chance in real time
 
 00:41:58.489 --> 00:42:00.052
 to have this conversation with me and to
 
 00:42:00.092 --> 00:42:03.896
 see all these objects on december sixth is
 
 00:42:03.936 --> 00:42:05.778
 our living history recreation of the first
 
 00:42:05.818 --> 00:42:06.599
 leg of this journey
 
 00:42:06.980 --> 00:42:08.581
 So my colleagues in our public history
 
 00:42:08.601 --> 00:42:11.402
 department will be portraying mostly
 
 00:42:11.481 --> 00:42:13.943
 soldiers of the First and Fourth New York
 
 00:42:14.003 --> 00:42:15.943
 regiments who are the garrison here.
 
 00:42:16.543 --> 00:42:18.284
 We are going to be using some of
 
 00:42:18.324 --> 00:42:20.485
 the historic equipment and tools that they
 
 00:42:20.505 --> 00:42:22.507
 would have been doing to dismount,
 
 00:42:22.706 --> 00:42:24.827
 hoist up and reload
 
 00:42:25.947 --> 00:42:27.809
 close to half a dozen reproduction
 
 00:42:27.869 --> 00:42:30.550
 artillery pieces and then start them
 
 00:42:30.610 --> 00:42:33.751
 moving with oxen and horses along the
 
 00:42:33.791 --> 00:42:34.311
 expedition.
 
 00:42:34.452 --> 00:42:37.193
 Also going through the process of scaling
 
 00:42:37.333 --> 00:42:38.594
 guns, which is something you do,
 
 00:42:38.614 --> 00:42:39.755
 particularly iron cannons,
 
 00:42:39.775 --> 00:42:41.516
 kind of shake out the rust inside to
 
 00:42:41.635 --> 00:42:42.177
 get them ready.
 
 00:42:43.257 --> 00:42:44.036
 And, you know,
 
 00:42:44.057 --> 00:42:45.438
 it'll give you some of that rumbling that
 
 00:42:45.478 --> 00:42:46.938
 the people would have experienced back in
 
 00:42:46.978 --> 00:42:48.059
 seventeen seventy five.
 
 00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:49.679
 And then we'll load them up,
 
 00:42:50.101 --> 00:42:52.442
 really going through all of the
 
 00:42:53.021 --> 00:42:55.083
 manual labor that quite literally heavy
 
 00:42:55.143 --> 00:42:57.106
 lifting that the criminals did here at
 
 00:42:57.146 --> 00:43:01.510
 Ticonderoga and then on Sunday those draft
 
 00:43:01.550 --> 00:43:04.152
 animals those gun tubes and others will be
 
 00:43:04.193 --> 00:43:06.094
 making the trek through the town of
 
 00:43:06.135 --> 00:43:09.277
 Ticonderoga from the fort all the way to
 
 00:43:09.297 --> 00:43:11.119
 the landing at the northern end of Lake
 
 00:43:11.159 --> 00:43:13.300
 George following the first leg of that
 
 00:43:13.362 --> 00:43:16.143
 journey before other towns and communities
 
 00:43:16.184 --> 00:43:16.885
 to our south
 
 00:43:17.472 --> 00:43:18.873
 um through warren and washington and
 
 00:43:18.914 --> 00:43:21.434
 saratoga and albany um continue that
 
 00:43:21.474 --> 00:43:23.396
 journey and then of course you cross by
 
 00:43:23.416 --> 00:43:24.655
 the time we get into the new year
 
 00:43:25.137 --> 00:43:26.996
 um into massachusetts and all the way to
 
 00:43:27.097 --> 00:43:28.797
 boston you know winding up in march of
 
 00:43:28.838 --> 00:43:31.259
 course in dorchester march seventeenth at
 
 00:43:31.298 --> 00:43:33.920
 south boston at dorchester heights so so
 
 00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:35.740
 the weekend of december fifth sixth and
 
 00:43:35.780 --> 00:43:37.222
 seventh at fort ticonderoga and your
 
 00:43:37.242 --> 00:43:39.362
 website's fort ticonderoga f-o-r-t
 
 00:43:39.422 --> 00:43:41.923
 ticonderoga.org where you can find out
 
 00:43:41.943 --> 00:43:43.545
 about these events the other things you're
 
 00:43:43.565 --> 00:43:43.945
 planning
 
 00:43:44.744 --> 00:43:47.092
 all sounds great a very exciting time and
 
 00:43:47.211 --> 00:43:48.576
 glad you're doing all of this to
 
 00:43:48.635 --> 00:43:50.961
 commemorate it and make it exciting again
 
 00:43:51.586 --> 00:43:52.666
 Yeah, we really are.
 
 00:43:53.288 --> 00:43:56.588
 This is one part of our much broader
 
 00:43:56.628 --> 00:43:57.349
 programs,
 
 00:43:57.449 --> 00:43:59.210
 especially our onsite living history
 
 00:43:59.250 --> 00:44:01.030
 programs called Real Time Revolution,
 
 00:44:01.110 --> 00:44:03.150
 where when you come and visit the fort
 
 00:44:03.690 --> 00:44:05.831
 now and during the two hundred fiftieth
 
 00:44:05.871 --> 00:44:06.251
 anniversary,
 
 00:44:06.311 --> 00:44:07.612
 all the way through twenty twenty seven,
 
 00:44:07.871 --> 00:44:09.632
 you're going to be seeing the soldiers and
 
 00:44:09.672 --> 00:44:11.833
 civilians that were there two hundred and
 
 00:44:11.873 --> 00:44:13.414
 fifty years ago to the month,
 
 00:44:13.713 --> 00:44:15.114
 the week and the day.
 
 00:44:15.855 --> 00:44:17.436
 And Knox is, of course,
 
 00:44:17.898 --> 00:44:19.699
 one of the most significant stories in
 
 00:44:19.739 --> 00:44:21.862
 Fort Ticonderoga's revolutionary history.
 
 00:44:22.262 --> 00:44:24.403
 And it's an incredible bookend to the
 
 00:44:24.465 --> 00:44:26.266
 beginning of the year in May when we
 
 00:44:26.306 --> 00:44:27.867
 commemorated the two hundred fiftieth of
 
 00:44:27.887 --> 00:44:28.548
 the capture of
 
 00:44:30.233 --> 00:44:30.773
 And then, of course,
 
 00:44:31.193 --> 00:44:33.313
 Ticonderoga sees other action during the
 
 00:44:33.333 --> 00:44:33.594
 war,
 
 00:44:33.634 --> 00:44:35.275
 so we'll have to have you back to
 
 00:44:35.315 --> 00:44:37.496
 talk more about what else is happening.
 
 00:44:37.516 --> 00:44:38.496
 What a tremendous place.
 
 00:44:38.556 --> 00:44:40.097
 And Matt Kegel,
 
 00:44:40.717 --> 00:44:42.378
 you've been studying all of this for a
 
 00:44:42.438 --> 00:44:42.797
 long time.
 
 00:44:42.818 --> 00:44:44.938
 I realize you got your senior honors
 
 00:44:44.978 --> 00:44:46.980
 thesis writing about clothing in the
 
 00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:47.800
 eighteenth century,
 
 00:44:47.820 --> 00:44:50.242
 and now your dissertation was on military
 
 00:44:50.342 --> 00:44:52.182
 uniforms in this age of reform.
 
 00:44:52.222 --> 00:44:54.483
 So this is the perfect place for you,
 
 00:44:54.503 --> 00:44:56.585
 and you're the perfect person to be
 
 00:44:57.045 --> 00:44:57.585
 working there.
 
 00:44:58.072 --> 00:44:59.693
 Yeah, I feel very fortunate.
 
 00:45:00.253 --> 00:45:02.596
 All of my professional experience has been
 
 00:45:03.175 --> 00:45:06.119
 in really looking at the material culture
 
 00:45:06.199 --> 00:45:07.539
 of warfare in the eighteenth century,
 
 00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:08.561
 which I think has been a kind of
 
 00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:11.463
 forgotten aspect of broader conversations
 
 00:45:11.503 --> 00:45:13.045
 on material culture, decorative arts,
 
 00:45:13.844 --> 00:45:16.065
 and even history more broadly and bringing
 
 00:45:16.085 --> 00:45:17.326
 that back into the conversation.
 
 00:45:17.365 --> 00:45:19.666
 And there's very few other places that
 
 00:45:19.726 --> 00:45:22.067
 have the volume of this material culture
 
 00:45:22.266 --> 00:45:22.686
 here.
 
 00:45:23.106 --> 00:45:23.387
 Of course,
 
 00:45:23.407 --> 00:45:24.987
 a part of my job ends up being
 
 00:45:25.427 --> 00:45:27.507
 more kind of traditional historical work
 
 00:45:27.688 --> 00:45:30.068
 of things like the Revolutionary War
 
 00:45:30.108 --> 00:45:30.608
 campaigns,
 
 00:45:30.648 --> 00:45:32.108
 Henry Knox's expedition and that kind of
 
 00:45:32.128 --> 00:45:32.329
 thing,
 
 00:45:32.608 --> 00:45:34.128
 but always trying to connect it back to
 
 00:45:34.148 --> 00:45:35.389
 the material because I think it's really
 
 00:45:35.429 --> 00:45:35.750
 important.
 
 00:45:35.769 --> 00:45:38.550
 And I think one thing that I don't
 
 00:45:38.570 --> 00:45:39.849
 know if he expresses it in the time
 
 00:45:39.869 --> 00:45:40.110
 period,
 
 00:45:40.150 --> 00:45:41.690
 but must have been evident to Knox
 
 00:45:42.791 --> 00:45:44.211
 kind of processing what he had
 
 00:45:44.231 --> 00:45:46.552
 accomplished in seventeen seventy five is
 
 00:45:46.592 --> 00:45:48.594
 the realization that you know it would be
 
 00:45:48.614 --> 00:45:50.835
 a lot easier to wage war if we
 
 00:45:50.876 --> 00:45:53.277
 didn't have to rely on you know stealing
 
 00:45:53.456 --> 00:45:55.918
 materiel right if we could manufacture it
 
 00:45:55.978 --> 00:45:58.400
 and of course it is under knox's direction
 
 00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:01.461
 that we see the beginnings of american
 
 00:46:02.081 --> 00:46:04.123
 kind of military industrial uh
 
 00:46:04.483 --> 00:46:06.105
 institutions like springfield arsenal
 
 00:46:06.164 --> 00:46:06.405
 right
 
 00:46:07.324 --> 00:46:09.065
 that set the nation up on its own
 
 00:46:09.106 --> 00:46:11.927
 footing and are really out of military
 
 00:46:11.987 --> 00:46:13.088
 origins in many cases,
 
 00:46:13.489 --> 00:46:16.429
 what ground and develop American industry
 
 00:46:16.449 --> 00:46:18.130
 to make us into the global power that
 
 00:46:18.150 --> 00:46:19.552
 we become by the twentieth century.
 
 00:46:20.172 --> 00:46:20.592
 Exactly.
 
 00:46:20.692 --> 00:46:21.072
 Exactly.
 
 00:46:21.112 --> 00:46:21.952
 This is great.
 
 00:46:21.972 --> 00:46:22.273
 Great.
 
 00:46:23.152 --> 00:46:23.333
 I mean,
 
 00:46:23.373 --> 00:46:24.853
 we could go on all day talking about
 
 00:46:24.893 --> 00:46:26.474
 Henry Knox and talking about all of this.
 
 00:46:26.514 --> 00:46:26.875
 But, you know,
 
 00:46:26.894 --> 00:46:28.755
 you have work to do to get ready
 
 00:46:28.815 --> 00:46:30.177
 for the various events.
 
 00:46:30.217 --> 00:46:32.378
 So so thank you.
 
 00:46:32.418 --> 00:46:34.219
 Is there any last word you wanted to
 
 00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:34.458
 share?
 
 00:46:35.302 --> 00:46:35.782
 Oh, well,
 
 00:46:36.021 --> 00:46:37.463
 we really hope that people come up to
 
 00:46:38.003 --> 00:46:39.523
 see us here at Fort Ticonderoga.
 
 00:46:40.324 --> 00:46:42.224
 We have events going on all winter as
 
 00:46:42.264 --> 00:46:43.885
 part of this real-time revolution program,
 
 00:46:43.925 --> 00:46:45.967
 including Knox and others as we get into
 
 00:46:45.987 --> 00:46:46.547
 the new year.
 
 00:46:46.947 --> 00:46:48.268
 And first weekend in May,
 
 00:46:48.288 --> 00:46:49.708
 we open for daily visitation,
 
 00:46:49.829 --> 00:46:51.849
 and the revolution is an everyday affair
 
 00:46:51.909 --> 00:46:52.710
 here at Ticonderoga.
 
 00:46:52.829 --> 00:46:54.110
 So we hope folks will come out and
 
 00:46:54.130 --> 00:46:54.391
 join us.
 
 00:46:54.411 --> 00:46:54.510
 Great.
 
 00:46:55.190 --> 00:46:55.811
 Thank you so much.
 
 00:46:55.831 --> 00:46:57.692
 We've been talking with Matthew Kegel, Dr.
 
 00:46:57.711 --> 00:46:58.231
 Matt Kegel,
 
 00:46:58.251 --> 00:47:00.773
 who is the curator at Fort Ticonderoga,
 
 00:47:01.213 --> 00:47:04.034
 tremendous place on Lake Champlain.
 
 00:47:04.746 --> 00:47:06.027
 And so thank you so much for joining
 
 00:47:06.067 --> 00:47:06.427
 us, Matt.
 
 00:47:06.447 --> 00:47:07.827
 And thank you to Jonathan Lane,
 
 00:47:07.927 --> 00:47:10.349
 our producer, the man behind the curtain.
 
 00:47:10.949 --> 00:47:12.570
 And I want to thank folks,
 
 00:47:12.670 --> 00:47:13.369
 all of our listeners.
 
 00:47:13.409 --> 00:47:14.710
 Every week we thank folks who are
 
 00:47:14.751 --> 00:47:15.811
 regularly tuning in.
 
 00:47:15.851 --> 00:47:17.791
 And if you're one of these places and
 
 00:47:17.831 --> 00:47:19.472
 want some of our Revolution Two-Fifty
 
 00:47:19.512 --> 00:47:21.193
 swag, send Jonathan an email,
 
 00:47:21.233 --> 00:47:24.134
 jlane at revolution two five zero dot org.
 
 00:47:24.253 --> 00:47:26.775
 And this week I want to thank our
 
 00:47:26.795 --> 00:47:28.034
 listeners in Hanover,
 
 00:47:28.074 --> 00:47:30.615
 Massachusetts and in Cincinnati and
 
 00:47:30.655 --> 00:47:33.097
 Marietta in Ohio, Cordova, Tennessee.
 
 00:47:33.574 --> 00:47:36.097
 Newark, New Jersey, the Bronx, Southpike,
 
 00:47:36.137 --> 00:47:38.280
 Pasadena, California, Detroit,
 
 00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:39.099
 Grand Rapids,
 
 00:47:39.159 --> 00:47:40.481
 and Trenton in the great state of
 
 00:47:40.541 --> 00:47:43.885
 Michigan, Lusaka, Tel Aviv, and Montreal.
 
 00:47:44.925 --> 00:47:45.806
 Actually,
 
 00:47:45.847 --> 00:47:48.088
 both South Bostons in Massachusetts and in
 
 00:47:48.128 --> 00:47:48.590
 Virginia.
 
 00:47:48.889 --> 00:47:49.951
 Thank you all for joining us,
 
 00:47:49.990 --> 00:47:51.452
 and thank you to all those in places
 
 00:47:51.492 --> 00:47:52.393
 between and beyond.
 
 00:47:52.413 --> 00:47:54.255
 And now we will be piped out on
 
 00:47:54.295 --> 00:47:55.135
 the road to Boston.