18th Century Taverns, Where Politics and Potables Meet with Malcolm Purinton

Taverns in the 18th century were more than watering holes: they were centers of cultural, political and social influence, gathering places for communities and  conduits through which news was conveyed by traders and travelers from far away.  We talk with Professor Malcolm Purinton, author of Globalization in a Glass: The Rise of Pilsner Beer through Technology, Taste, and Empire, about the role of taverns in the American Revolution, as well as about what people were drinking in the 18th-century. 

Transcript

WEBVTT
 
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 Hello, everyone.
 
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 Welcome to the Revolution
 
 00:00:03.177 --> 00:00:04.357
 Two Fifty podcast.
 
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 I am Bob Allison.
 
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 I chair the Rev Two Fifty Advisory Group.
 
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 We are a consortium of about
 
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 seventy five organizations
 
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 in Massachusetts planning
 
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 commemorations of the
 
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 beginnings of American independence.
 
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 And our guest today is
 
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 Malcolm F. Purinton.
 
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 Malcolm, thanks for joining us.
 
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 Pleasure to be here.
 
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 Malcolm is an assistant
 
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 teaching professor of
 
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 history at Northeastern University,
 
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 author of Globalization in a Glass,
 
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 The Rise of Pilsner Beer
 
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 Through Technology, Taste, and Empire,
 
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 and also a columnist for
 
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 the Yankee Brew News.
 
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 He's a beer historian and
 
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 also an historian of early
 
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 America and empire.
 
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 Malcolm,
 
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 you've said that in many ways the
 
 00:00:49.076 --> 00:00:50.097
 American Revolution is
 
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 really a result of the tavern culture.
 
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 I wonder if you can tell us
 
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 a little bit of what you mean.
 
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 So we have to think about
 
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 exactly like what was the
 
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 colonial society in early America.
 
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 A lot of it was transplants from England,
 
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 especially,
 
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 and their way of gathering as community.
 
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 And a big piece of that was
 
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 through the tavern culture.
 
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 Now you have the pub culture in England,
 
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 but a lot of the people
 
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 that were coming over,
 
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 especially if we're looking
 
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 at the Northeast,
 
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 we're looking at people who
 
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 were fleeing religious persecution,
 
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 watching their own kind of like,
 
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 their own type of culture and society.
 
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 and so among the very first
 
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 things that people would be
 
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 building you know aside
 
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 from homes uh the first
 
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 buildings for the community
 
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 would be you know a meeting
 
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 house um you know for
 
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 church for services um and
 
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 then also a tavern almost
 
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 immediately afterwards
 
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 This was a place that, you know,
 
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 aside from the meeting house,
 
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 which would be, you know, gatherings,
 
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 especially in warmer weather,
 
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 when you have your sermons,
 
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 you have your nice religious gatherings.
 
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 But especially in the winter months,
 
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 you know, when it got a bit colder,
 
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 the meeting houses wouldn't
 
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 have any type of warmth,
 
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 wouldn't have fireplaces.
 
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 Now the tavern wasn't just a
 
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 place to imbibe alcohol, you know, beer,
 
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 hard cider, wine, spirits.
 
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 It was a place that you could stay warm,
 
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 you know, between services.
 
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 You have a morning service,
 
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 evening service, you go to the tavern,
 
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 you know,
 
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 perhaps have some warmth from
 
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 the outside and some warmth
 
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 for the inside.
 
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 The tavern was a place where
 
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 basically everyone would gather for news.
 
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 People would be coming through towns.
 
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 People would be getting read
 
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 from the newspaper, things like that.
 
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 So the tavern was really a
 
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 central part of how people
 
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 built community in early America.
 
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 You make a point, too, that by law,
 
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 towns had to build a tavern.
 
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 And often the ministers
 
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 wanted it right next to the
 
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 meeting house.
 
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 Oh, yeah,
 
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 that's actually that's one of my
 
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 favorite little things to talk about.
 
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 Concord,
 
 00:02:55.275 --> 00:02:56.474
 Massachusetts was actually
 
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 threatened with fines
 
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 because they did not have a
 
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 house of common entertainment,
 
 00:03:02.438 --> 00:03:05.061
 basically a safe space, a tavern in town.
 
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 And so they they immediately
 
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 after like a year or two,
 
 00:03:08.883 --> 00:03:09.864
 they did actually build
 
 00:03:09.903 --> 00:03:10.865
 their tavern for the town.
 
 00:03:11.865 --> 00:03:12.605
 Because we also have to
 
 00:03:12.626 --> 00:03:14.067
 think about the tavern for the town,
 
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 a place of common entertainment,
 
 00:03:15.747 --> 00:03:18.370
 but also called an in or an ordinary.
 
 00:03:18.389 --> 00:03:19.950
 I mean, ordinary just, I mean,
 
 00:03:19.991 --> 00:03:22.173
 the term itself kind of says everything.
 
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 It was so ordinary,
 
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 it was just part of every
 
 00:03:25.074 --> 00:03:25.775
 single community.
 
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 But it wasn't just a place
 
 00:03:28.037 --> 00:03:29.078
 for the local community.
 
 00:03:29.858 --> 00:03:32.979
 Why this place would be necessary by law,
 
 00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:34.921
 by the Massachusetts Supreme Court,
 
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 was because it was also a
 
 00:03:37.743 --> 00:03:39.145
 place for travelers to stop by.
 
 00:03:39.926 --> 00:03:41.087
 You know, we don't have, you know,
 
 00:03:41.127 --> 00:03:42.649
 large hotels, we don't have large,
 
 00:03:42.949 --> 00:03:44.468
 so you had to have a place for people,
 
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 you know,
 
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 when they're on their way from
 
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 one place to another, towns being,
 
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 you know,
 
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 not necessarily next to each other,
 
 00:03:51.353 --> 00:03:52.212
 you needed a place for
 
 00:03:52.493 --> 00:03:54.093
 horses to be fed and watered,
 
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 as well as for men and
 
 00:03:55.914 --> 00:03:57.955
 women and children to be fed and watered.
 
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 And so if you didn't have a place of,
 
 00:04:00.598 --> 00:04:01.937
 you know, where people could stop by,
 
 00:04:02.117 --> 00:04:03.519
 spend the nights, you know,
 
 00:04:03.558 --> 00:04:04.379
 get some victuals,
 
 00:04:05.139 --> 00:04:06.681
 then where else would they go?
 
 00:04:06.980 --> 00:04:08.842
 You might find them in someone's barn.
 
 00:04:08.861 --> 00:04:10.002
 You might find them lying on
 
 00:04:10.021 --> 00:04:10.802
 the side of the road.
 
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 You might find them knocking on your door.
 
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 Yeah, right.
 
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 And also they would have
 
 00:04:15.224 --> 00:04:16.324
 court sessions and other
 
 00:04:16.365 --> 00:04:17.805
 public meetings in taverns.
 
 00:04:18.706 --> 00:04:19.245
 Oh, absolutely,
 
 00:04:19.766 --> 00:04:20.665
 especially in colder months.
 
 00:04:22.086 --> 00:04:23.086
 I mean,
 
 00:04:24.166 --> 00:04:25.447
 if you were having a court session
 
 00:04:25.487 --> 00:04:26.466
 in the middle of wintertime,
 
 00:04:26.927 --> 00:04:27.588
 you would not be going to
 
 00:04:27.608 --> 00:04:28.208
 the meeting house.
 
 00:04:29.288 --> 00:04:30.148
 Churches, meeting houses,
 
 00:04:30.187 --> 00:04:31.447
 they would not have the fireplace.
 
 00:04:31.807 --> 00:04:32.668
 Everything's made of wood,
 
 00:04:32.829 --> 00:04:34.228
 so everyone has that fear of fire.
 
 00:04:34.728 --> 00:04:35.829
 The tavern would have a very
 
 00:04:35.988 --> 00:04:39.009
 large fireplace, a place to keep warm.
 
 00:04:39.730 --> 00:04:41.149
 And that's usually where
 
 00:04:41.310 --> 00:04:42.769
 you'd go from the court sometimes,
 
 00:04:42.810 --> 00:04:43.329
 and then they would
 
 00:04:43.370 --> 00:04:44.771
 continue their discussions
 
 00:04:45.310 --> 00:04:46.071
 into the tavern.
 
 00:04:46.550 --> 00:04:48.350
 sometimes with or without
 
 00:04:48.471 --> 00:04:50.331
 some liquid encouragement as well.
 
 00:04:51.271 --> 00:04:52.271
 They would also have elections.
 
 00:04:52.833 --> 00:04:55.413
 A lot of times, you know, town and city,
 
 00:04:55.673 --> 00:04:55.853
 you know,
 
 00:04:55.952 --> 00:04:58.374
 events would be held in those taverns,
 
 00:04:58.434 --> 00:05:00.415
 because that would be a place for news,
 
 00:05:00.435 --> 00:05:02.514
 that'd be a place to make news as well.
 
 00:05:04.115 --> 00:05:04.896
 And in Boston,
 
 00:05:05.555 --> 00:05:06.716
 you have this wonderful map
 
 00:05:06.735 --> 00:05:07.656
 you show of how many
 
 00:05:07.696 --> 00:05:09.916
 taverns there are in Boston, how many
 
 00:05:10.949 --> 00:05:12.432
 And the number seems to grow
 
 00:05:12.531 --> 00:05:14.415
 exponentially in the eighteenth century.
 
 00:05:14.435 --> 00:05:15.636
 I wonder why this is or what
 
 00:05:15.656 --> 00:05:18.500
 you see happening with this.
 
 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:19.300
 It's a big transition in the
 
 00:05:19.380 --> 00:05:20.182
 eighteenth century.
 
 00:05:21.059 --> 00:05:22.319
 So Boston had become,
 
 00:05:22.339 --> 00:05:23.721
 like the early part of the
 
 00:05:23.740 --> 00:05:24.401
 eighteenth century,
 
 00:05:24.420 --> 00:05:24.922
 we're looking at kind of
 
 00:05:24.942 --> 00:05:26.182
 like the pirate times, you know,
 
 00:05:26.223 --> 00:05:28.723
 like we're looking at kind of,
 
 00:05:28.783 --> 00:05:30.625
 you're looking at the Spanish-American,
 
 00:05:30.644 --> 00:05:31.565
 the French-American War,
 
 00:05:32.206 --> 00:05:33.427
 the French and Indian War,
 
 00:05:34.127 --> 00:05:34.848
 Seven Years' War.
 
 00:05:35.427 --> 00:05:36.809
 And what you're seeing is
 
 00:05:36.848 --> 00:05:38.771
 Boston's becoming a cosmopolitan city.
 
 00:05:39.670 --> 00:05:40.451
 One where you have people
 
 00:05:40.492 --> 00:05:41.531
 from all over the world,
 
 00:05:41.872 --> 00:05:43.413
 they're coming to this major port city,
 
 00:05:43.954 --> 00:05:45.214
 a lot of times to live,
 
 00:05:45.235 --> 00:05:46.134
 a lot of times to stay for
 
 00:05:46.154 --> 00:05:47.076
 a certain period of time.
 
 00:05:47.096 --> 00:05:49.877
 So as the numbers grew, you had towers.
 
 00:05:50.517 --> 00:05:53.180
 but you also saw you saw
 
 00:05:53.281 --> 00:05:54.601
 certain taverns becoming
 
 00:05:55.442 --> 00:05:56.504
 focused on specific
 
 00:05:56.543 --> 00:05:58.545
 clientele so the first
 
 00:05:58.586 --> 00:05:59.947
 taverns so ones through the
 
 00:05:59.987 --> 00:06:01.548
 sixteenth century um would
 
 00:06:01.569 --> 00:06:02.528
 generally be I mean you
 
 00:06:02.548 --> 00:06:03.529
 would have everybody
 
 00:06:03.750 --> 00:06:05.151
 regardless of social class
 
 00:06:05.651 --> 00:06:07.574
 all going to the same
 
 00:06:08.274 --> 00:06:09.415
 because there were very few
 
 00:06:09.435 --> 00:06:10.817
 of them by the eighteenth
 
 00:06:10.836 --> 00:06:11.497
 century we're seeing a
 
 00:06:11.557 --> 00:06:13.379
 stratification of society
 
 00:06:14.132 --> 00:06:16.257
 where certain groups would
 
 00:06:16.298 --> 00:06:17.781
 be going to certain taverns.
 
 00:06:18.201 --> 00:06:19.964
 So the higher upper class,
 
 00:06:20.144 --> 00:06:22.170
 the politicians like Hancock,
 
 00:06:22.189 --> 00:06:23.552
 they would be going to one
 
 00:06:23.612 --> 00:06:24.153
 type of tavern.
 
 00:06:24.872 --> 00:06:26.413
 Then you have the working class, you know,
 
 00:06:26.432 --> 00:06:27.754
 say like the working men on the docks,
 
 00:06:28.074 --> 00:06:28.894
 they'd have their own
 
 00:06:28.934 --> 00:06:31.435
 taverns and all in between.
 
 00:06:31.915 --> 00:06:33.716
 But you also had a shift in
 
 00:06:33.896 --> 00:06:35.218
 types of drinking.
 
 00:06:35.958 --> 00:06:37.839
 So while these taverns could be, you know,
 
 00:06:37.959 --> 00:06:39.139
 especially for the upper class,
 
 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:41.221
 you'd have the courts, you know, nearby,
 
 00:06:41.262 --> 00:06:41.862
 and then you'd probably
 
 00:06:41.901 --> 00:06:43.302
 adjourn to or continue
 
 00:06:43.322 --> 00:06:44.624
 discussions in those taverns.
 
 00:06:45.584 --> 00:06:48.567
 You would have people drinking beer, cider,
 
 00:06:49.028 --> 00:06:49.869
 sometimes wine,
 
 00:06:50.709 --> 00:06:51.410
 but we're seeing the
 
 00:06:51.470 --> 00:06:52.872
 increase of rum production
 
 00:06:53.031 --> 00:06:54.533
 and consumption in the
 
 00:06:54.572 --> 00:06:56.235
 eighteenth century because
 
 00:06:56.295 --> 00:06:58.156
 Boston's part of the British Empire,
 
 00:06:58.276 --> 00:06:58.476
 right?
 
 00:06:58.516 --> 00:07:00.079
 These are British colonies.
 
 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:01.399
 So the most important
 
 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:02.440
 colonies for the British
 
 00:07:02.521 --> 00:07:03.422
 Empire were the ones that
 
 00:07:03.442 --> 00:07:04.564
 were making the most money,
 
 00:07:05.223 --> 00:07:06.185
 which were the ones in the Caribbean,
 
 00:07:06.384 --> 00:07:08.608
 the Sugar Islands, Barbados especially.
 
 00:07:09.067 --> 00:07:10.088
 And so, you know,
 
 00:07:10.247 --> 00:07:12.069
 one of those offshoots of, you know,
 
 00:07:12.749 --> 00:07:15.369
 making nice refined sugar is molasses.
 
 00:07:15.750 --> 00:07:16.529
 So what do you do with this
 
 00:07:16.569 --> 00:07:17.269
 leftover stuff?
 
 00:07:17.649 --> 00:07:19.029
 You're going to distill it into rum.
 
 00:07:19.410 --> 00:07:22.110
 And well, New England had most,
 
 00:07:22.451 --> 00:07:23.790
 most of those rum distilleries.
 
 00:07:24.331 --> 00:07:25.831
 So you had a lot of rum
 
 00:07:26.312 --> 00:07:28.653
 producers and consumers in
 
 00:07:28.692 --> 00:07:29.512
 that period of time.
 
 00:07:29.552 --> 00:07:30.793
 So while the population went up,
 
 00:07:31.312 --> 00:07:32.892
 you had people also going
 
 00:07:32.934 --> 00:07:34.713
 to these taverns for
 
 00:07:36.490 --> 00:07:39.252
 lesser than savory options.
 
 00:07:41.072 --> 00:07:41.894
 Interesting.
 
 00:07:41.913 --> 00:07:43.093
 Jonathan points out that
 
 00:07:43.194 --> 00:07:45.134
 tavern licenses per capita
 
 00:07:45.175 --> 00:07:46.276
 today are fewer than they
 
 00:07:46.315 --> 00:07:48.057
 were two hundred fifty years ago.
 
 00:07:48.177 --> 00:07:50.617
 So they're not only were there more more.
 
 00:07:51.077 --> 00:07:52.478
 Well, there might have been fewer taverns,
 
 00:07:52.559 --> 00:07:53.718
 but there were more taverns
 
 00:07:53.778 --> 00:07:55.600
 per capita then than there are now.
 
 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:56.521
 And I'm not quite sure what
 
 00:07:56.540 --> 00:07:57.821
 to make of that statistic,
 
 00:07:57.860 --> 00:07:58.982
 but it's interesting to think about.
 
 00:07:59.880 --> 00:08:00.401
 Oh, absolutely.
 
 00:08:00.420 --> 00:08:01.322
 It's actually extremely
 
 00:08:01.362 --> 00:08:03.302
 difficult to get a liquor
 
 00:08:03.322 --> 00:08:06.343
 license today in Boston.
 
 00:08:06.384 --> 00:08:07.363
 It's usually one that's kind
 
 00:08:07.403 --> 00:08:09.185
 of passed down or you can, you know,
 
 00:08:09.225 --> 00:08:10.584
 if you have one, you can sell it.
 
 00:08:10.605 --> 00:08:11.346
 It's usually kind of like a
 
 00:08:11.446 --> 00:08:12.526
 secondary market as well.
 
 00:08:12.545 --> 00:08:12.925
 Yeah.
 
 00:08:13.185 --> 00:08:13.966
 Yeah.
 
 00:08:14.266 --> 00:08:15.687
 I had a bad experience with
 
 00:08:15.706 --> 00:08:16.827
 what happened in taverns
 
 00:08:16.848 --> 00:08:18.288
 two hundred fifty years ago, I guess.
 
 00:08:18.307 --> 00:08:19.488
 So they want to clean it.
 
 00:08:20.264 --> 00:08:21.946
 But you mentioned that they
 
 00:08:21.985 --> 00:08:23.086
 become gathering places for
 
 00:08:23.146 --> 00:08:24.706
 certain kinds of people,
 
 00:08:24.745 --> 00:08:26.047
 but then Samuel Adams is
 
 00:08:26.086 --> 00:08:26.987
 someone who seems to be
 
 00:08:27.047 --> 00:08:28.346
 able to move between them.
 
 00:08:28.387 --> 00:08:29.148
 I wonder if we could talk a
 
 00:08:29.168 --> 00:08:30.507
 little bit about Samuel Adams,
 
 00:08:30.528 --> 00:08:32.129
 because he does,
 
 00:08:32.149 --> 00:08:33.489
 there's one popular image of him,
 
 00:08:33.528 --> 00:08:36.509
 the happy guy you see on the beer bottles,
 
 00:08:36.590 --> 00:08:37.789
 but that's not really the
 
 00:08:37.830 --> 00:08:39.510
 Samuel Adams I think that existed.
 
 00:08:40.298 --> 00:08:41.639
 Yeah, the image or the person.
 
 00:08:42.640 --> 00:08:42.880
 Yeah,
 
 00:08:42.900 --> 00:08:44.101
 because Samuel Adams did not come
 
 00:08:44.121 --> 00:08:45.383
 from a brewing family.
 
 00:08:46.263 --> 00:08:46.984
 There were molsters.
 
 00:08:47.224 --> 00:08:48.065
 So they're the ones that
 
 00:08:48.085 --> 00:08:49.085
 were getting the grain
 
 00:08:49.586 --> 00:08:52.807
 ready to then be brewed into beer.
 
 00:08:52.847 --> 00:08:53.849
 Though he wasn't really big
 
 00:08:53.948 --> 00:08:55.610
 on his business acumen.
 
 00:08:56.309 --> 00:08:57.030
 He was much more of like the
 
 00:08:57.071 --> 00:08:58.011
 political rabble riser.
 
 00:08:58.211 --> 00:08:59.692
 So while he was walking
 
 00:08:59.712 --> 00:09:01.073
 between these different
 
 00:09:01.794 --> 00:09:03.676
 stratified levels of society,
 
 00:09:05.037 --> 00:09:06.879
 he was able to walk through
 
 00:09:06.918 --> 00:09:08.259
 those areas and get the
 
 00:09:08.279 --> 00:09:09.341
 people in all those
 
 00:09:09.380 --> 00:09:10.841
 different taverns going
 
 00:09:10.902 --> 00:09:12.844
 into the cause of revolution.
 
 00:09:13.004 --> 00:09:14.825
 So those causes for this
 
 00:09:14.905 --> 00:09:16.846
 idea of an American freedom,
 
 00:09:17.187 --> 00:09:19.870
 of an American independent nation.
 
 00:09:20.490 --> 00:09:22.232
 And so he was able to kind
 
 00:09:22.253 --> 00:09:23.715
 of get those different groups,
 
 00:09:24.336 --> 00:09:25.397
 for instance, the several, you know,
 
 00:09:25.437 --> 00:09:28.282
 the gangs of Boston to join
 
 00:09:28.322 --> 00:09:30.544
 into becoming really kind of one gang,
 
 00:09:31.025 --> 00:09:32.488
 you know, and call themselves, you know,
 
 00:09:32.508 --> 00:09:33.950
 the Sons of Liberty eventually.
 
 00:09:35.066 --> 00:09:37.407
 Yeah, so they had, like, one of the fun,
 
 00:09:37.486 --> 00:09:38.047
 one of the neat things
 
 00:09:38.067 --> 00:09:39.106
 about kind of Boston, you know,
 
 00:09:39.147 --> 00:09:41.148
 you have to picture the Boston of that,
 
 00:09:41.327 --> 00:09:43.869
 the peninsula, the Shama Peninsula.
 
 00:09:44.188 --> 00:09:44.369
 You know,
 
 00:09:44.389 --> 00:09:47.009
 a very thin one road going in and out,
 
 00:09:47.429 --> 00:09:49.250
 and you had the north end, just as we do.
 
 00:09:49.270 --> 00:09:50.730
 You got the south end, just as we do.
 
 00:09:51.110 --> 00:09:52.831
 but not surrounded by so
 
 00:09:52.871 --> 00:09:54.113
 much land as we do today.
 
 00:09:54.472 --> 00:09:57.134
 They were very specific
 
 00:09:57.315 --> 00:09:59.796
 areas on this relatively small peninsula.
 
 00:09:59.816 --> 00:10:01.356
 So you had the South End gang,
 
 00:10:01.376 --> 00:10:02.538
 you had the North End gang,
 
 00:10:03.278 --> 00:10:06.360
 and one time a year, Guy Fawkes Day,
 
 00:10:07.660 --> 00:10:08.782
 remember the fifth of November,
 
 00:10:09.282 --> 00:10:12.163
 these two gangs would have
 
 00:10:12.203 --> 00:10:14.404
 their moment in the night
 
 00:10:14.664 --> 00:10:17.106
 where they were allowed to
 
 00:10:17.226 --> 00:10:18.967
 let themselves go with
 
 00:10:19.687 --> 00:10:21.227
 You know, they would each make up,
 
 00:10:21.248 --> 00:10:22.408
 you know, got to think about this as,
 
 00:10:22.609 --> 00:10:24.068
 you know, it's a Protestant, you know,
 
 00:10:24.389 --> 00:10:26.009
 community where it's not
 
 00:10:26.028 --> 00:10:27.429
 very big on the Pope or Catholics.
 
 00:10:27.830 --> 00:10:29.289
 And so each group,
 
 00:10:29.350 --> 00:10:30.210
 each gang would kind of
 
 00:10:30.450 --> 00:10:31.289
 create their own Pope
 
 00:10:31.389 --> 00:10:33.410
 effigy and then move, you know,
 
 00:10:33.451 --> 00:10:34.370
 the south end would move to
 
 00:10:34.390 --> 00:10:35.831
 the north and the north end
 
 00:10:35.850 --> 00:10:37.192
 would come down towards the south.
 
 00:10:37.792 --> 00:10:38.491
 And along the way,
 
 00:10:38.511 --> 00:10:39.351
 they would stop at every
 
 00:10:39.392 --> 00:10:40.471
 single tavern along the way
 
 00:10:40.511 --> 00:10:41.633
 to make sure that those
 
 00:10:41.673 --> 00:10:43.673
 tavern owners were on their side.
 
 00:10:44.586 --> 00:10:45.969
 And if they weren't,
 
 00:10:46.068 --> 00:10:47.149
 then they might find some
 
 00:10:47.168 --> 00:10:48.389
 of their windows broken,
 
 00:10:49.630 --> 00:10:50.532
 things of that nature.
 
 00:10:50.552 --> 00:10:52.113
 And they'd be vibing along the way.
 
 00:10:52.734 --> 00:10:54.195
 And then eventually they
 
 00:10:54.215 --> 00:10:55.115
 would meet up in the middle
 
 00:10:55.316 --> 00:10:57.538
 and kind of out, you know, just fists,
 
 00:10:57.618 --> 00:10:58.298
 nothing too big.
 
 00:10:58.879 --> 00:10:59.359
 And, you know,
 
 00:10:59.379 --> 00:11:00.919
 whoever won the other person's pope,
 
 00:11:01.100 --> 00:11:02.020
 then they take those two
 
 00:11:02.081 --> 00:11:03.722
 popes to their space and
 
 00:11:03.783 --> 00:11:04.884
 burn them in effigy.
 
 00:11:05.504 --> 00:11:06.504
 Now, eventually,
 
 00:11:06.563 --> 00:11:07.725
 as this kind of gets moving on,
 
 00:11:07.764 --> 00:11:09.804
 these gangs start getting
 
 00:11:10.004 --> 00:11:13.066
 kind of brought together, you know,
 
 00:11:13.086 --> 00:11:14.206
 through their tavern cultures,
 
 00:11:14.546 --> 00:11:16.787
 through the workings of Samuel Adams,
 
 00:11:17.246 --> 00:11:17.746
 you know,
 
 00:11:18.126 --> 00:11:19.807
 getting them to start seeing
 
 00:11:20.148 --> 00:11:21.008
 themselves as not an
 
 00:11:21.168 --> 00:11:23.288
 isolated gang in Boston on the peninsula,
 
 00:11:23.609 --> 00:11:25.288
 but as part of a larger idea,
 
 00:11:25.629 --> 00:11:27.028
 part of a commonwealth,
 
 00:11:27.129 --> 00:11:28.409
 part of a country.
 
 00:11:29.149 --> 00:11:30.250
 That's where I start seeing
 
 00:11:30.289 --> 00:11:31.971
 a transition towards that
 
 00:11:32.071 --> 00:11:34.812
 middle later half of the of
 
 00:11:34.851 --> 00:11:35.812
 the eighteenth century
 
 00:11:36.232 --> 00:11:36.773
 where we're seeing
 
 00:11:36.793 --> 00:11:38.394
 everything coming together
 
 00:11:38.714 --> 00:11:39.793
 towards that revolution.
 
 00:11:41.355 --> 00:11:42.095
 I'm wondering,
 
 00:11:42.115 --> 00:11:43.475
 we're talking with Malcolm Purinton,
 
 00:11:43.596 --> 00:11:45.537
 author of Globalization in a Glass,
 
 00:11:45.576 --> 00:11:46.797
 The Rise of Pilsner Beer
 
 00:11:46.836 --> 00:11:49.177
 Through Technology, Taste and Empire.
 
 00:11:49.821 --> 00:11:51.022
 Now, I'm wondering,
 
 00:11:51.162 --> 00:11:52.322
 in addition to these
 
 00:11:52.384 --> 00:11:53.684
 different taverns for
 
 00:11:53.725 --> 00:11:55.446
 different folks on the Patriot side,
 
 00:11:55.485 --> 00:11:56.648
 if there are gathering
 
 00:11:56.687 --> 00:11:57.729
 places for those who want
 
 00:11:57.749 --> 00:11:59.230
 to remain loyal to the crown.
 
 00:11:59.250 --> 00:11:59.450
 I mean,
 
 00:11:59.490 --> 00:12:03.214
 is Thomas Hutchinson and his sons
 
 00:12:03.254 --> 00:12:04.695
 going to a certain tavern,
 
 00:12:04.855 --> 00:12:06.155
 or are there such places
 
 00:12:06.236 --> 00:12:08.639
 for a safe space for loyalists?
 
 00:12:09.544 --> 00:12:10.125
 Oh, absolutely.
 
 00:12:10.525 --> 00:12:11.187
 As we started seeing
 
 00:12:11.226 --> 00:12:12.609
 stratifications in society
 
 00:12:12.649 --> 00:12:13.370
 for different taverns,
 
 00:12:13.791 --> 00:12:15.293
 we also see political divides as well.
 
 00:12:15.874 --> 00:12:17.176
 So you definitely had groups
 
 00:12:17.196 --> 00:12:18.957
 that would be going towards, you know,
 
 00:12:18.977 --> 00:12:20.841
 I mean, during the occupation of Boston,
 
 00:12:20.860 --> 00:12:21.321
 for instance,
 
 00:12:21.341 --> 00:12:22.523
 you have a lot of the
 
 00:12:22.582 --> 00:12:24.085
 regular British regulars, the Redcoats,
 
 00:12:24.485 --> 00:12:26.028
 going to their specific taverns.
 
 00:12:26.587 --> 00:12:28.568
 And you had, well, South End Gang,
 
 00:12:28.589 --> 00:12:30.469
 you had Ebenezer McIntosh's
 
 00:12:30.489 --> 00:12:31.908
 group going to their place.
 
 00:12:32.710 --> 00:12:33.950
 Separations within Boston,
 
 00:12:33.970 --> 00:12:35.370
 but also across Massachusetts.
 
 00:12:35.889 --> 00:12:36.870
 The Golden Bell Tavern,
 
 00:12:37.171 --> 00:12:38.051
 still standing today,
 
 00:12:38.091 --> 00:12:39.530
 which you can go visit over the summer.
 
 00:12:40.351 --> 00:12:44.592
 They were known to be a loyalist tavern.
 
 00:12:44.613 --> 00:12:46.673
 One that housed a number of
 
 00:12:46.712 --> 00:12:47.994
 different loyalist spies
 
 00:12:48.014 --> 00:12:49.073
 during the Revolution, too.
 
 00:12:49.933 --> 00:12:51.335
 So you see political divides
 
 00:12:51.375 --> 00:12:52.254
 for different taverns.
 
 00:12:52.715 --> 00:12:54.975
 Once you reach a number of taverns,
 
 00:12:55.056 --> 00:12:56.875
 you can have that type of distribution,
 
 00:12:57.596 --> 00:12:58.456
 and those tavern owners can
 
 00:12:58.496 --> 00:12:59.356
 still make enough money.
 
 00:13:00.777 --> 00:13:01.398
 Yeah, I don't know,
 
 00:13:01.418 --> 00:13:02.557
 is the Golden Bowl the only
 
 00:13:02.738 --> 00:13:03.557
 one in that town,
 
 00:13:03.618 --> 00:13:04.818
 or is there another tavern?
 
 00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:08.019
 Still standing today.
 
 00:13:08.340 --> 00:13:09.279
 Yes, it is.
 
 00:13:09.379 --> 00:13:10.679
 I'm just wondering if there
 
 00:13:10.700 --> 00:13:11.581
 was another place...
 
 00:13:16.562 --> 00:13:17.302
 and you are a Vermonter,
 
 00:13:17.342 --> 00:13:18.724
 is the Catamount Tavern in Bennington.
 
 00:13:18.744 --> 00:13:19.403
 I wonder if you could talk a
 
 00:13:19.423 --> 00:13:20.544
 little bit about those guys.
 
 00:13:21.345 --> 00:13:23.927
 As being born and raised Vermonter myself,
 
 00:13:23.986 --> 00:13:25.207
 I always kind of, you know,
 
 00:13:25.227 --> 00:13:26.749
 look towards Ethan Allen and like,
 
 00:13:26.788 --> 00:13:28.429
 you know, the Green Mountain Boys.
 
 00:13:29.730 --> 00:13:30.471
 And I mean,
 
 00:13:31.150 --> 00:13:32.471
 perhaps less fondly than I did
 
 00:13:32.491 --> 00:13:33.312
 when I was a child,
 
 00:13:33.373 --> 00:13:34.692
 learning exactly who they were.
 
 00:13:36.153 --> 00:13:37.434
 Ethan Allen was known for
 
 00:13:37.914 --> 00:13:39.976
 not only his revolutionary ideals,
 
 00:13:40.057 --> 00:13:42.758
 but also his level of imbibing,
 
 00:13:42.798 --> 00:13:43.619
 which was extensive.
 
 00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:46.100
 So the Catamount Tavern, Bennington,
 
 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:46.400
 Vermont.
 
 00:13:47.421 --> 00:13:48.822
 They, which was also the name,
 
 00:13:48.861 --> 00:13:50.202
 Catamount was also one of
 
 00:13:50.222 --> 00:13:51.403
 the very first craft beer
 
 00:13:51.443 --> 00:13:52.485
 breweries in Vermont,
 
 00:13:52.544 --> 00:13:53.345
 the Catamount Brewery.
 
 00:13:54.086 --> 00:13:54.927
 The Catamount Tavern.
 
 00:13:54.947 --> 00:13:56.086
 Was this a more recent craft brewery?
 
 00:13:57.187 --> 00:13:57.548
 Oh, yes.
 
 00:13:57.749 --> 00:13:58.249
 Oh, yeah.
 
 00:13:58.269 --> 00:14:00.210
 They're actually still produce some,
 
 00:14:00.831 --> 00:14:01.610
 Harpoon actually still
 
 00:14:01.630 --> 00:14:02.871
 produces some of their beers too.
 
 00:14:02.892 --> 00:14:03.773
 Okay.
 
 00:14:03.812 --> 00:14:05.234
 Their Windsor, Vermont facility.
 
 00:14:06.494 --> 00:14:08.615
 So Catima, the tavern in Bennington,
 
 00:14:09.414 --> 00:14:09.975
 that was kind of the
 
 00:14:09.995 --> 00:14:11.615
 gathering point for the
 
 00:14:11.635 --> 00:14:12.296
 Green Mountain Boys.
 
 00:14:12.517 --> 00:14:14.537
 So Ethan Allen, his brother Ira Allen,
 
 00:14:14.697 --> 00:14:15.618
 all of their merry men.
 
 00:14:16.618 --> 00:14:18.918
 And as we see the siege of
 
 00:14:18.958 --> 00:14:19.938
 Boston occurring,
 
 00:14:20.318 --> 00:14:22.379
 so after Paul Revere and
 
 00:14:22.419 --> 00:14:24.321
 Haas and everybody, after Prescott,
 
 00:14:24.421 --> 00:14:25.941
 after the midnight rides,
 
 00:14:26.981 --> 00:14:29.842
 we see all of the rebels, perhaps,
 
 00:14:29.923 --> 00:14:31.163
 the patriots coming and
 
 00:14:31.202 --> 00:14:32.884
 surrounding the peninsula of Boston.
 
 00:14:33.524 --> 00:14:35.664
 But they come to a standstill.
 
 00:14:35.684 --> 00:14:37.264
 Going from April through,
 
 00:14:38.466 --> 00:14:39.385
 you have this stalemate
 
 00:14:39.426 --> 00:14:42.226
 because the British control
 
 00:14:42.486 --> 00:14:43.947
 the harbor with all of their ships.
 
 00:14:44.788 --> 00:14:46.268
 And the land is controlled
 
 00:14:46.327 --> 00:14:47.508
 by the Patriots.
 
 00:14:48.269 --> 00:14:49.509
 And so what they need is cannon.
 
 00:14:50.009 --> 00:14:50.149
 Now,
 
 00:14:50.208 --> 00:14:51.309
 one place that did have a lot of good
 
 00:14:51.350 --> 00:14:53.269
 cannon was Fort Ticonderoga.
 
 00:14:53.690 --> 00:14:55.331
 So north of Lake George, New York.
 
 00:14:56.613 --> 00:14:59.816
 south, southern end of Lake Champlain.
 
 00:15:00.736 --> 00:15:02.138
 And the Green Mountain Boys
 
 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:05.741
 are making some plans with Henry Knox,
 
 00:15:05.761 --> 00:15:08.544
 with Benedict Arnold,
 
 00:15:09.785 --> 00:15:11.628
 before he becomes the bad guy,
 
 00:15:12.489 --> 00:15:14.110
 coming to meet up there, get these cannon,
 
 00:15:14.190 --> 00:15:15.130
 and bring them back to Boston.
 
 00:15:15.530 --> 00:15:16.613
 Fort Ticonderoga is still
 
 00:15:16.633 --> 00:15:17.592
 held by the British.
 
 00:15:18.408 --> 00:15:19.969
 Now, the Green Mountain Boys,
 
 00:15:19.989 --> 00:15:20.669
 while they're hanging out
 
 00:15:20.690 --> 00:15:22.110
 at the Catamount Tavern,
 
 00:15:22.130 --> 00:15:24.312
 they're getting towards the
 
 00:15:24.331 --> 00:15:24.851
 middle of the night.
 
 00:15:24.871 --> 00:15:25.773
 They're kind of like, you know,
 
 00:15:25.793 --> 00:15:26.953
 why should we wait for these guys?
 
 00:15:26.974 --> 00:15:29.154
 Let's just head on over there right now.
 
 00:15:29.535 --> 00:15:30.255
 It's the middle of the night.
 
 00:15:30.275 --> 00:15:31.297
 We'll be able to surprise them.
 
 00:15:31.317 --> 00:15:32.256
 This will totally work out.
 
 00:15:32.517 --> 00:15:32.937
 Totally great.
 
 00:15:33.457 --> 00:15:34.519
 So they manage to get
 
 00:15:34.538 --> 00:15:36.600
 themselves over to the river,
 
 00:15:36.620 --> 00:15:37.160
 to the end of the lake,
 
 00:15:37.760 --> 00:15:39.001
 and find some ships.
 
 00:15:39.042 --> 00:15:39.682
 About then, I mean,
 
 00:15:39.782 --> 00:15:41.143
 Benedict Arnold and his
 
 00:15:41.202 --> 00:15:42.604
 crew showed up at Catamount.
 
 00:15:43.144 --> 00:15:44.384
 Green Mountain Boys have already left.
 
 00:15:44.846 --> 00:15:45.985
 Arnold is pissed.
 
 00:15:46.626 --> 00:15:48.008
 But they all meet up.
 
 00:15:48.827 --> 00:15:50.328
 at these boats just before
 
 00:15:50.428 --> 00:15:53.490
 dawn and slowly make their
 
 00:15:53.509 --> 00:15:56.490
 way across over to Fort Ticonderoga.
 
 00:15:57.130 --> 00:15:58.331
 So you have that meeting point.
 
 00:15:58.532 --> 00:15:59.432
 The tavern's always going to
 
 00:15:59.451 --> 00:16:00.972
 be the meeting point.
 
 00:16:01.013 --> 00:16:02.212
 That's where everybody's
 
 00:16:02.232 --> 00:16:03.092
 going to know where to go.
 
 00:16:03.113 --> 00:16:03.913
 They're going to get their news.
 
 00:16:03.933 --> 00:16:05.094
 That's where they're going to meet.
 
 00:16:05.214 --> 00:16:06.313
 It's the one place in town
 
 00:16:06.354 --> 00:16:07.475
 that everybody's going to know about.
 
 00:16:07.955 --> 00:16:08.916
 so they both they're able to
 
 00:16:08.936 --> 00:16:10.157
 get to port ticonderoga
 
 00:16:10.537 --> 00:16:11.758
 take it over with minimal
 
 00:16:11.778 --> 00:16:14.078
 hassle and henry knox takes
 
 00:16:14.099 --> 00:16:15.279
 that cannon all the way
 
 00:16:15.299 --> 00:16:16.421
 back to boston to
 
 00:16:16.660 --> 00:16:17.721
 eventually end that siege
 
 00:16:17.761 --> 00:16:20.183
 of boston right right yeah
 
 00:16:20.203 --> 00:16:20.803
 now one of the things that
 
 00:16:20.844 --> 00:16:23.046
 comes up I mean um these
 
 00:16:23.245 --> 00:16:24.147
 guys are gathering in
 
 00:16:24.206 --> 00:16:25.888
 taverns and that might lead
 
 00:16:25.927 --> 00:16:27.509
 to a perception that they
 
 00:16:27.668 --> 00:16:29.389
 are perpetually drunk I
 
 00:16:29.409 --> 00:16:30.071
 wonder if we could talk
 
 00:16:30.091 --> 00:16:30.890
 both a little bit about
 
 00:16:30.910 --> 00:16:32.712
 that as well as about what
 
 00:16:32.732 --> 00:16:34.293
 is the alcohol content of what
 
 00:16:34.690 --> 00:16:35.490
 They're drinking.
 
 00:16:35.530 --> 00:16:36.673
 What are the drinks of the
 
 00:16:36.712 --> 00:16:37.695
 day that you would have
 
 00:16:37.715 --> 00:16:38.616
 found in a tavern?
 
 00:16:39.683 --> 00:16:40.423
 That's a good question.
 
 00:16:41.625 --> 00:16:43.725
 So now, with Ethan Allen, yes,
 
 00:16:43.764 --> 00:16:45.865
 he was generally inebriated.
 
 00:16:47.106 --> 00:16:49.126
 But for the most part, these taverns were,
 
 00:16:49.226 --> 00:16:50.447
 again, the ordinaries.
 
 00:16:50.467 --> 00:16:51.668
 They're also known as inns
 
 00:16:51.847 --> 00:16:53.269
 and places of entertainment.
 
 00:16:53.288 --> 00:16:54.769
 So they were the spot for travelers.
 
 00:16:55.750 --> 00:16:56.490
 A lot of times,
 
 00:16:56.889 --> 00:16:57.750
 hard cider ended up being
 
 00:16:57.789 --> 00:17:01.491
 one of the most imbibed libations.
 
 00:17:02.491 --> 00:17:03.773
 Beer somewhat.
 
 00:17:03.873 --> 00:17:05.292
 Beer production was still a lot,
 
 00:17:06.012 --> 00:17:06.953
 many times a home
 
 00:17:07.881 --> 00:17:09.602
 homebrew situation.
 
 00:17:11.103 --> 00:17:12.163
 For most of human history,
 
 00:17:12.202 --> 00:17:14.605
 women were the primary brewers of beer,
 
 00:17:14.744 --> 00:17:15.684
 talking about for thousands
 
 00:17:15.704 --> 00:17:16.484
 and thousands of years,
 
 00:17:16.625 --> 00:17:18.405
 just the home domestic
 
 00:17:18.426 --> 00:17:19.507
 tasks that were happening.
 
 00:17:20.607 --> 00:17:22.308
 And so what we see, though,
 
 00:17:22.328 --> 00:17:23.189
 in the eighteenth century,
 
 00:17:23.229 --> 00:17:24.309
 as I mentioned before,
 
 00:17:24.450 --> 00:17:25.750
 is the increase in rum
 
 00:17:25.769 --> 00:17:28.311
 production and consumption.
 
 00:17:28.412 --> 00:17:29.791
 So in the
 
 00:17:31.258 --> 00:17:33.682
 higher levels of the stratified society.
 
 00:17:33.701 --> 00:17:34.623
 You'd see a lot of wine,
 
 00:17:34.983 --> 00:17:37.126
 especially real wine, being consumed.
 
 00:17:37.748 --> 00:17:39.911
 And you'd see a lot of hard cider.
 
 00:17:40.231 --> 00:17:41.773
 Think about Johnny Appleseed, you know,
 
 00:17:41.854 --> 00:17:42.915
 the Minster Massachusetts.
 
 00:17:43.977 --> 00:17:44.538
 He was not, you know,
 
 00:17:44.597 --> 00:17:45.880
 planting like pink ladies
 
 00:17:45.900 --> 00:17:46.821
 and that kind of stuff.
 
 00:17:47.301 --> 00:17:49.962
 He was planting hard, knobby,
 
 00:17:50.103 --> 00:17:52.343
 very tart types of apples
 
 00:17:52.623 --> 00:17:55.683
 specifically for hard cider production.
 
 00:17:56.084 --> 00:17:57.604
 That's what was the focus.
 
 00:17:57.784 --> 00:17:58.784
 It was a really big piece.
 
 00:17:59.125 --> 00:18:00.224
 Samuel Adams was actually
 
 00:18:00.345 --> 00:18:01.444
 advocating as the
 
 00:18:01.464 --> 00:18:02.545
 revolution started getting
 
 00:18:02.585 --> 00:18:03.846
 going that everyone should
 
 00:18:03.865 --> 00:18:05.365
 be drinking American-made
 
 00:18:05.385 --> 00:18:07.205
 beer because it could show
 
 00:18:07.425 --> 00:18:08.566
 for the patriotic cause.
 
 00:18:08.866 --> 00:18:10.067
 The wine was being imported
 
 00:18:10.106 --> 00:18:11.467
 through British importers.
 
 00:18:11.886 --> 00:18:13.807
 The rum was very much a
 
 00:18:13.847 --> 00:18:15.307
 British imperial drink.
 
 00:18:15.968 --> 00:18:18.290
 And so depending on where
 
 00:18:18.330 --> 00:18:21.214
 you were and the part of the evening,
 
 00:18:21.756 --> 00:18:23.758
 people could be drinking straight rum.
 
 00:18:23.857 --> 00:18:25.039
 They could be drinking some beer.
 
 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:27.363
 They could be drinking a lot of hard cider,
 
 00:18:27.482 --> 00:18:28.304
 sometimes wine,
 
 00:18:28.724 --> 00:18:30.968
 but also mixtures of all of the above.
 
 00:18:31.669 --> 00:18:32.650
 Sometimes they would have a flip.
 
 00:18:34.361 --> 00:18:35.721
 They loved putting eggs and
 
 00:18:35.741 --> 00:18:38.262
 different types of things into beer.
 
 00:18:38.282 --> 00:18:39.563
 They would also heat it up.
 
 00:18:40.242 --> 00:18:41.864
 So a flip would be usually a
 
 00:18:41.903 --> 00:18:43.944
 mixture of some beer, some cider,
 
 00:18:44.365 --> 00:18:47.486
 possibly some rum, an egg,
 
 00:18:48.326 --> 00:18:49.807
 and you'd heat it all up with a poke,
 
 00:18:50.106 --> 00:18:50.987
 like a hot poker,
 
 00:18:51.426 --> 00:18:53.428
 and it'd be frothing over.
 
 00:18:53.768 --> 00:18:56.449
 So they loved to mix everything together.
 
 00:18:56.868 --> 00:18:57.088
 Actually,
 
 00:18:57.128 --> 00:18:58.809
 Ethan Allen was a big fan of the
 
 00:18:58.890 --> 00:18:59.410
 snakebite,
 
 00:19:00.069 --> 00:19:02.270
 which was hard cider and rum together.
 
 00:19:03.262 --> 00:19:04.763
 So beer itself would be
 
 00:19:04.804 --> 00:19:07.684
 around like really low alcohol,
 
 00:19:07.944 --> 00:19:10.045
 four to six percent tops
 
 00:19:10.746 --> 00:19:11.605
 alcohol by volume.
 
 00:19:13.267 --> 00:19:16.728
 Rum could be up there around fifty percent,
 
 00:19:17.307 --> 00:19:18.087
 like fifty proof.
 
 00:19:18.709 --> 00:19:19.969
 The wine standard as we kind
 
 00:19:19.989 --> 00:19:20.769
 of think of today, you know,
 
 00:19:20.808 --> 00:19:22.089
 twelve to fourteen percent.
 
 00:19:22.970 --> 00:19:24.790
 And the hard cider could vary anywhere,
 
 00:19:24.951 --> 00:19:26.611
 like really seven up to
 
 00:19:26.691 --> 00:19:27.872
 sixteen percent itself.
 
 00:19:29.214 --> 00:19:29.914
 So it kind of depended.
 
 00:19:29.954 --> 00:19:31.635
 I mean, Thomas Jefferson,
 
 00:19:32.196 --> 00:19:33.497
 well-known for having two
 
 00:19:33.557 --> 00:19:34.597
 pints of hard cider every
 
 00:19:34.637 --> 00:19:35.678
 single morning with breakfast.
 
 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:37.618
 This is a period of time.
 
 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:38.839
 There's actually a pretty
 
 00:19:38.859 --> 00:19:39.440
 good book called The
 
 00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:40.980
 Alcoholic Republic by
 
 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:43.481
 L'Oréval that speaks to,
 
 00:19:43.642 --> 00:19:45.983
 he really focuses on how
 
 00:19:46.104 --> 00:19:47.064
 much people were drinking
 
 00:19:47.243 --> 00:19:48.605
 in the American colonies
 
 00:19:48.625 --> 00:19:50.865
 and then the early country
 
 00:19:51.226 --> 00:19:52.946
 from seventeen fifty to eighteen thirty.
 
 00:19:53.487 --> 00:19:54.847
 So the drinking per capita
 
 00:19:54.867 --> 00:19:57.128
 was on levels which no one
 
 00:19:57.148 --> 00:19:57.990
 has ever really seen.
 
 00:19:58.890 --> 00:20:01.212
 Yeah, that's amazing.
 
 00:20:01.232 --> 00:20:02.953
 In the middle of the seventeen hundreds,
 
 00:20:02.973 --> 00:20:04.095
 there's a big public health
 
 00:20:04.134 --> 00:20:05.777
 crisis in London caused by
 
 00:20:05.836 --> 00:20:07.577
 gin that's newly introduced.
 
 00:20:07.739 --> 00:20:09.680
 And does that happen here as well,
 
 00:20:09.840 --> 00:20:10.981
 the whole gin craze?
 
 00:20:12.170 --> 00:20:12.670
 No, actually,
 
 00:20:12.690 --> 00:20:13.290
 we don't see very much
 
 00:20:13.330 --> 00:20:14.351
 evidence of that here at all.
 
 00:20:15.231 --> 00:20:17.712
 But we also see the gin, really,
 
 00:20:17.732 --> 00:20:19.134
 it's almost like a gin pandemic.
 
 00:20:19.233 --> 00:20:19.374
 I mean,
 
 00:20:19.394 --> 00:20:20.334
 the levels of people that were
 
 00:20:20.614 --> 00:20:21.954
 dying from gin consumption
 
 00:20:21.994 --> 00:20:23.496
 was just horrendous.
 
 00:20:24.855 --> 00:20:26.477
 And you don't see much gin
 
 00:20:26.497 --> 00:20:28.538
 production here because
 
 00:20:28.577 --> 00:20:28.999
 you're looking at the
 
 00:20:29.019 --> 00:20:30.778
 specific spirits that are being produced.
 
 00:20:30.819 --> 00:20:32.460
 So we're looking at very
 
 00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:34.441
 clean grain liquor being
 
 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:35.662
 distilled in London that was
 
 00:20:35.801 --> 00:20:36.363
 part of that gin.
 
 00:20:36.542 --> 00:20:38.285
 And look at the laws, too,
 
 00:20:38.325 --> 00:20:41.728
 which made gin much cheaper than, say,
 
 00:20:41.748 --> 00:20:41.887
 beer.
 
 00:20:41.907 --> 00:20:43.509
 Because the beer production
 
 00:20:43.549 --> 00:20:45.131
 in London at this time is
 
 00:20:45.192 --> 00:20:47.534
 huge and growing.
 
 00:20:48.335 --> 00:20:49.256
 In the eighteenth century,
 
 00:20:49.296 --> 00:20:50.777
 we're seeing the popularity
 
 00:20:50.797 --> 00:20:52.179
 of a brand new style called the porter.
 
 00:20:53.038 --> 00:20:54.740
 We're seeing really the
 
 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:56.520
 industrialization of beer
 
 00:20:57.001 --> 00:20:57.942
 for the first time.
 
 00:20:58.363 --> 00:21:00.943
 And so beer is huge in London,
 
 00:21:01.044 --> 00:21:01.805
 also places like
 
 00:21:01.845 --> 00:21:03.145
 Burton-upon-Trent and
 
 00:21:03.266 --> 00:21:04.446
 Liverpool and Manchester.
 
 00:21:05.086 --> 00:21:07.188
 But we're seeing gin becomes
 
 00:21:07.608 --> 00:21:08.788
 mostly through taxation and
 
 00:21:08.848 --> 00:21:11.310
 pricing it out more than anything else.
 
 00:21:11.871 --> 00:21:14.093
 But we don't see that necessarily here.
 
 00:21:14.932 --> 00:21:17.233
 What we see is we see really
 
 00:21:17.273 --> 00:21:20.375
 more pushes against the imperial drinks.
 
 00:21:21.015 --> 00:21:23.635
 So that's why rum is being frowned upon.
 
 00:21:26.517 --> 00:21:27.136
 Patrick Henry,
 
 00:21:27.518 --> 00:21:29.458
 who was actually given some
 
 00:21:29.478 --> 00:21:30.979
 real shade for serving
 
 00:21:31.078 --> 00:21:33.700
 home-brewed beer to a bunch
 
 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:35.799
 of politicians instead of
 
 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:37.901
 his usual rum production,
 
 00:21:37.961 --> 00:21:39.461
 like rum that he would have done.
 
 00:21:39.501 --> 00:21:40.541
 But he was like, no, no, no,
 
 00:21:40.602 --> 00:21:41.501
 it's a patriotic drink.
 
 00:21:41.521 --> 00:21:42.583
 We have to stick with this.
 
 00:21:43.682 --> 00:21:44.743
 So you don't see that type
 
 00:21:44.763 --> 00:21:45.785
 of epidemic going on here
 
 00:21:45.805 --> 00:21:47.747
 in the colonies at all.
 
 00:21:47.767 --> 00:21:49.328
 We're talking with Malcolm Purinton,
 
 00:21:49.469 --> 00:21:51.451
 author of Globalization in a Glass,
 
 00:21:51.490 --> 00:21:52.592
 The Rise of Pilsner Beer
 
 00:21:52.632 --> 00:21:55.674
 Through Technology, Taste, and Empire.
 
 00:21:56.134 --> 00:21:57.096
 I'm just wondering, Malcolm,
 
 00:21:57.276 --> 00:22:00.098
 how is the beer being imported today?
 
 00:22:00.118 --> 00:22:02.240
 You know, Heineken, other beers,
 
 00:22:02.320 --> 00:22:03.942
 Dos Equis come in bottles.
 
 00:22:04.682 --> 00:22:06.144
 Was the beer being shipped in bottles?
 
 00:22:07.107 --> 00:22:09.910
 primarily wooden casks, so wooden kegs.
 
 00:22:10.990 --> 00:22:12.593
 Bottles are only starting to
 
 00:22:12.613 --> 00:22:15.194
 come around in the really
 
 00:22:15.214 --> 00:22:16.816
 kind of like the early nineteenth century,
 
 00:22:17.916 --> 00:22:19.577
 and then not with like the
 
 00:22:19.738 --> 00:22:20.759
 cap that we think of today.
 
 00:22:20.778 --> 00:22:22.580
 It would be corked and caged, actually.
 
 00:22:23.441 --> 00:22:25.021
 And it was much more expensive.
 
 00:22:25.142 --> 00:22:25.741
 As we see the
 
 00:22:25.761 --> 00:22:27.583
 industrialization of the glass industry,
 
 00:22:27.603 --> 00:22:28.663
 we start seeing glasses
 
 00:22:28.703 --> 00:22:29.443
 being something that is
 
 00:22:29.824 --> 00:22:30.704
 cheaper to produce.
 
 00:22:31.424 --> 00:22:32.285
 And then you can also use
 
 00:22:32.305 --> 00:22:32.965
 that for bottling.
 
 00:22:33.246 --> 00:22:34.205
 But for the most part,
 
 00:22:34.246 --> 00:22:35.227
 we're seeing beer
 
 00:22:35.267 --> 00:22:36.906
 production being tied to
 
 00:22:37.047 --> 00:22:38.127
 lots of different industries,
 
 00:22:39.048 --> 00:22:40.409
 whether that is Coopers,
 
 00:22:40.769 --> 00:22:41.528
 the ones who are making
 
 00:22:41.568 --> 00:22:43.809
 those wooden casks specifically for beer,
 
 00:22:43.849 --> 00:22:45.050
 but also wine, also whiskey.
 
 00:22:46.151 --> 00:22:46.872
 And that would be what would
 
 00:22:46.912 --> 00:22:49.512
 be being sent over on ships
 
 00:22:49.972 --> 00:22:51.354
 if it's being transported across.
 
 00:22:51.933 --> 00:22:52.193
 I mean,
 
 00:22:52.213 --> 00:22:55.636
 the domestic production of beer was,
 
 00:22:56.076 --> 00:22:56.557
 you know,
 
 00:22:56.738 --> 00:22:58.659
 decent enough so that you did
 
 00:22:58.679 --> 00:23:00.180
 not see very much like beer
 
 00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:02.902
 being sent across, you know,
 
 00:23:03.061 --> 00:23:03.982
 across the Atlantic.
 
 00:23:04.242 --> 00:23:05.022
 You're seeing different goods,
 
 00:23:05.042 --> 00:23:06.144
 you're seeing malted grains,
 
 00:23:06.163 --> 00:23:07.464
 you're seeing hops and
 
 00:23:07.525 --> 00:23:08.465
 other ingredients being
 
 00:23:08.506 --> 00:23:09.226
 sent back and forth,
 
 00:23:09.866 --> 00:23:11.228
 but not the finished product itself.
 
 00:23:12.971 --> 00:23:14.292
 I know that Franklin has a
 
 00:23:14.333 --> 00:23:15.753
 couple of casks of porter
 
 00:23:15.773 --> 00:23:16.574
 that he serves to the
 
 00:23:16.614 --> 00:23:17.835
 delegates at the Continent
 
 00:23:17.914 --> 00:23:19.175
 Constitutional Convention
 
 00:23:19.635 --> 00:23:20.717
 in seventeen eighty seven
 
 00:23:20.757 --> 00:23:21.657
 imported from England.
 
 00:23:21.718 --> 00:23:23.838
 He writes to his friend who had sent them.
 
 00:23:23.898 --> 00:23:24.940
 So and you think of these
 
 00:23:24.980 --> 00:23:26.980
 casks really are primarily
 
 00:23:27.040 --> 00:23:28.521
 meant for taverns as
 
 00:23:28.561 --> 00:23:30.442
 opposed to home consumption,
 
 00:23:30.482 --> 00:23:31.304
 unless you're someone like
 
 00:23:31.324 --> 00:23:32.304
 Franklin who has a big
 
 00:23:32.324 --> 00:23:33.265
 house and entertain a lot.
 
 00:23:34.385 --> 00:23:34.885
 Oh, yeah.
 
 00:23:34.945 --> 00:23:35.105
 No,
 
 00:23:35.125 --> 00:23:36.567
 we're definitely looking at this not
 
 00:23:36.787 --> 00:23:38.146
 generally for home consumption.
 
 00:23:38.207 --> 00:23:39.507
 Home consumption would be on
 
 00:23:39.547 --> 00:23:40.887
 a much smaller scale and
 
 00:23:40.948 --> 00:23:41.728
 also be a beer that you
 
 00:23:41.748 --> 00:23:42.827
 would be producing and
 
 00:23:42.847 --> 00:23:44.348
 consuming on a weekly basis
 
 00:23:44.489 --> 00:23:45.648
 because that home-brewed
 
 00:23:45.669 --> 00:23:47.289
 beer would be very low in alcohol.
 
 00:23:48.089 --> 00:23:49.170
 And so it would also be seen
 
 00:23:49.309 --> 00:23:50.951
 as safer because you don't
 
 00:23:50.971 --> 00:23:52.730
 have sewage facilities.
 
 00:23:53.030 --> 00:23:54.412
 You don't see that.
 
 00:23:54.471 --> 00:23:55.672
 So you'd see like table
 
 00:23:55.692 --> 00:23:58.333
 beers or small beers being produced.
 
 00:23:58.492 --> 00:23:58.972
 That would be something
 
 00:23:58.992 --> 00:23:59.673
 you'd have for breakfast.
 
 00:24:00.093 --> 00:24:01.253
 So we'd have like while
 
 00:24:01.294 --> 00:24:02.374
 harvesting in the fields,
 
 00:24:03.075 --> 00:24:03.595
 something that you would
 
 00:24:03.634 --> 00:24:05.155
 serve to children because
 
 00:24:05.175 --> 00:24:06.855
 it was also it was you have
 
 00:24:06.875 --> 00:24:08.356
 to think about it as food
 
 00:24:08.557 --> 00:24:10.117
 as well as something that
 
 00:24:10.137 --> 00:24:12.318
 you could drink to excess outwards.
 
 00:24:13.118 --> 00:24:13.338
 Right.
 
 00:24:13.819 --> 00:24:14.240
 And also,
 
 00:24:14.460 --> 00:24:16.861
 let me make the point that one
 
 00:24:16.980 --> 00:24:19.241
 reason that beer is popular
 
 00:24:19.342 --> 00:24:20.323
 is because it's safer to
 
 00:24:20.363 --> 00:24:21.042
 drink than water.
 
 00:24:23.282 --> 00:24:23.563
 Yeah.
 
 00:24:23.603 --> 00:24:23.682
 Yeah.
 
 00:24:23.702 --> 00:24:23.883
 I mean,
 
 00:24:23.903 --> 00:24:25.105
 this goes back to really the
 
 00:24:25.144 --> 00:24:26.846
 founding of Massachusetts Bay Colony.
 
 00:24:27.527 --> 00:24:28.969
 If you look at the Mayflower, for instance,
 
 00:24:29.910 --> 00:24:30.651
 one of the reasons, I mean,
 
 00:24:31.632 --> 00:24:32.432
 they weren't looking for
 
 00:24:32.472 --> 00:24:33.634
 this rock in Plymouth.
 
 00:24:33.953 --> 00:24:35.035
 You know, they were trying to get,
 
 00:24:35.115 --> 00:24:36.777
 you know, beyond the Cape.
 
 00:24:37.657 --> 00:24:39.539
 But because they left so late, so late,
 
 00:24:39.721 --> 00:24:40.361
 and, you know,
 
 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:41.762
 the ship itself was one
 
 00:24:41.782 --> 00:24:42.663
 that had been used for,
 
 00:24:43.163 --> 00:24:46.266
 many years was not in great condition.
 
 00:24:47.406 --> 00:24:48.686
 And they were running out of beer.
 
 00:24:49.188 --> 00:24:50.147
 Most importantly,
 
 00:24:50.208 --> 00:24:51.469
 they were running out of beer.
 
 00:24:51.689 --> 00:24:52.509
 William Bradford writes
 
 00:24:52.529 --> 00:24:54.090
 about this because they had
 
 00:24:54.131 --> 00:24:55.050
 hired this ship.
 
 00:24:55.371 --> 00:24:56.791
 And so while the water will
 
 00:24:56.811 --> 00:24:57.833
 go bad pretty quickly,
 
 00:24:58.432 --> 00:25:01.315
 the beer itself had keeping qualities,
 
 00:25:01.355 --> 00:25:02.295
 including alcohol,
 
 00:25:03.096 --> 00:25:04.477
 but primarily the hops that
 
 00:25:04.497 --> 00:25:05.116
 are being used,
 
 00:25:05.156 --> 00:25:06.178
 which acted as a
 
 00:25:06.258 --> 00:25:07.258
 preservative to allow that
 
 00:25:07.298 --> 00:25:09.940
 beer to keep out bacteria
 
 00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:11.500
 and other things that make it go bad.
 
 00:25:12.201 --> 00:25:13.721
 four weeks to months at a time.
 
 00:25:13.961 --> 00:25:15.682
 And so those sailors needed
 
 00:25:15.701 --> 00:25:16.942
 enough beer to not just
 
 00:25:17.321 --> 00:25:19.462
 drop off all the pilgrims here,
 
 00:25:19.482 --> 00:25:20.643
 but also to get all the way
 
 00:25:20.742 --> 00:25:22.383
 back across the Atlantic.
 
 00:25:23.002 --> 00:25:25.203
 So when we see the next big
 
 00:25:25.864 --> 00:25:26.703
 influx of people,
 
 00:25:26.824 --> 00:25:30.424
 the Puritans with the Arabella, well,
 
 00:25:30.704 --> 00:25:33.525
 the Arabella itself, among the many ships,
 
 00:25:33.846 --> 00:25:35.185
 had enough beer for four
 
 00:25:35.226 --> 00:25:37.806
 pints per person per day, man, woman,
 
 00:25:37.945 --> 00:25:40.606
 and child, just to make sure.
 
 00:25:41.186 --> 00:25:42.906
 so uh they learned exactly
 
 00:25:42.926 --> 00:25:43.667
 you know what what happened
 
 00:25:43.807 --> 00:25:44.988
 and I mean really I mean we
 
 00:25:45.028 --> 00:25:46.428
 see sixteen twenty for the
 
 00:25:46.448 --> 00:25:48.588
 mayflower and by sixteen
 
 00:25:48.608 --> 00:25:49.568
 thirty three we have the
 
 00:25:49.608 --> 00:25:51.828
 very first licensed tavern
 
 00:25:52.009 --> 00:25:54.329
 in um in boston uh cole's
 
 00:25:54.529 --> 00:25:56.650
 in uh on the peninsula uh
 
 00:25:56.670 --> 00:25:58.671
 which was actually um it
 
 00:25:58.931 --> 00:26:00.530
 was one year it was one
 
 00:26:00.550 --> 00:26:01.550
 year after the first church
 
 00:26:01.590 --> 00:26:02.471
 two years before the first
 
 00:26:02.531 --> 00:26:03.592
 school so we can see the
 
 00:26:03.612 --> 00:26:06.132
 priorities so I I will have
 
 00:26:06.152 --> 00:26:07.192
 to put that on the boston
 
 00:26:07.211 --> 00:26:08.393
 four hundred calendar the
 
 00:26:08.452 --> 00:26:09.512
 opening of the first tavern
 
 00:26:10.188 --> 00:26:21.435
 And I'm wondering if we can
 
 00:26:21.556 --> 00:26:22.856
 talk a little bit more
 
 00:26:22.957 --> 00:26:24.577
 about the Green Dragon,
 
 00:26:24.617 --> 00:26:26.779
 because that's a place that
 
 00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:28.300
 the Masons own that was
 
 00:26:28.361 --> 00:26:29.342
 also their meeting place.
 
 00:26:30.171 --> 00:26:30.431
 Yeah.
 
 00:26:30.550 --> 00:26:32.751
 So one of the Masonic Lodges.
 
 00:26:33.531 --> 00:26:34.832
 So Masonic Lodges were very
 
 00:26:34.872 --> 00:26:36.892
 important to these colonial communities.
 
 00:26:36.971 --> 00:26:37.932
 I mean, both at this period,
 
 00:26:37.972 --> 00:26:38.992
 but also going through the
 
 00:26:39.012 --> 00:26:40.532
 nineteenth century because
 
 00:26:40.553 --> 00:26:41.492
 they acted as kind of
 
 00:26:41.853 --> 00:26:42.693
 fraternal brotherhoods,
 
 00:26:43.374 --> 00:26:46.693
 but places where groups of people,
 
 00:26:46.733 --> 00:26:49.654
 men could come and discuss
 
 00:26:49.694 --> 00:26:50.815
 politics of the day,
 
 00:26:51.935 --> 00:26:53.576
 discuss the events and
 
 00:26:54.175 --> 00:26:54.415
 Well,
 
 00:26:54.695 --> 00:26:57.097
 plan things like elections or
 
 00:26:57.198 --> 00:26:57.857
 revolutions.
 
 00:26:58.459 --> 00:26:59.818
 So the Queen Dragon is one such place.
 
 00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:02.721
 It was then purchased by the Freemasons.
 
 00:27:03.622 --> 00:27:04.662
 They would meet there regularly.
 
 00:27:04.682 --> 00:27:08.023
 You know, people including Prescott, Dawes,
 
 00:27:08.164 --> 00:27:09.625
 and Revere, and everybody.
 
 00:27:10.046 --> 00:27:11.326
 They would all come there and meet up,
 
 00:27:11.626 --> 00:27:11.846
 you know,
 
 00:27:12.027 --> 00:27:12.826
 and they would have their
 
 00:27:12.846 --> 00:27:14.607
 meetings in this tavern because, well,
 
 00:27:14.627 --> 00:27:15.648
 that's where people would meet,
 
 00:27:16.028 --> 00:27:16.630
 in the taverns.
 
 00:27:17.309 --> 00:27:18.351
 But this place...
 
 00:27:19.090 --> 00:27:19.230
 Well,
 
 00:27:19.652 --> 00:27:21.493
 we see them first becoming the Loyal
 
 00:27:21.614 --> 00:27:22.034
 Nine.
 
 00:27:22.454 --> 00:27:25.397
 Their first secret group,
 
 00:27:25.657 --> 00:27:26.940
 secret revolutionary group,
 
 00:27:27.500 --> 00:27:28.922
 was the Royal Nine that
 
 00:27:28.961 --> 00:27:30.163
 then would eventually
 
 00:27:30.223 --> 00:27:32.246
 become the broader Sons of Liberty.
 
 00:27:32.741 --> 00:27:33.623
 But they would plan
 
 00:27:33.702 --> 00:27:34.923
 revolutionary activities,
 
 00:27:35.263 --> 00:27:36.484
 including the burning of a
 
 00:27:36.505 --> 00:27:38.185
 ship in Narragansett Bay, for instance,
 
 00:27:39.026 --> 00:27:41.667
 the sacking of the governor's house.
 
 00:27:42.689 --> 00:27:44.849
 But also, I mean, perhaps most famous,
 
 00:27:45.329 --> 00:27:46.250
 on the same night where you
 
 00:27:46.270 --> 00:27:48.613
 see a big meeting at the Meeting House,
 
 00:27:48.633 --> 00:27:49.452
 the Southern Meeting House,
 
 00:27:50.534 --> 00:27:54.636
 where we see talking about the Tea Act.
 
 00:27:55.917 --> 00:27:56.818
 What was going on with the
 
 00:27:56.838 --> 00:27:58.759
 Green Dragon was the Sons
 
 00:27:58.779 --> 00:28:00.460
 of Liberty were getting together,
 
 00:28:00.780 --> 00:28:02.801
 dressing themselves up like
 
 00:28:02.862 --> 00:28:05.022
 Mohawk Indians to go down.
 
 00:28:05.242 --> 00:28:06.982
 And the original plan was
 
 00:28:07.003 --> 00:28:09.265
 just kind of take control of the tea.
 
 00:28:10.845 --> 00:28:11.786
 They were getting ready for
 
 00:28:11.806 --> 00:28:12.786
 apparently a long time.
 
 00:28:13.207 --> 00:28:14.827
 And so imbibing quite a bit
 
 00:28:15.768 --> 00:28:16.788
 along while they were
 
 00:28:16.808 --> 00:28:17.788
 getting themselves made up.
 
 00:28:17.929 --> 00:28:18.910
 And so they ended up getting
 
 00:28:18.930 --> 00:28:20.990
 there and tossing over all of that tea.
 
 00:28:21.411 --> 00:28:21.590
 I mean,
 
 00:28:21.891 --> 00:28:24.813
 millions of dollars worth of tea at
 
 00:28:24.833 --> 00:28:25.693
 the Boston Tea Party.
 
 00:28:26.433 --> 00:28:28.595
 So the tavern played a role
 
 00:28:29.015 --> 00:28:30.596
 through many decades of
 
 00:28:31.116 --> 00:28:32.396
 different levels of
 
 00:28:32.436 --> 00:28:33.357
 revolutionary activity.
 
 00:28:33.935 --> 00:28:35.277
 going from the initial meetings,
 
 00:28:35.678 --> 00:28:36.679
 discussing politics,
 
 00:28:36.719 --> 00:28:38.800
 discussing what freedom and liberty are,
 
 00:28:39.320 --> 00:28:41.423
 to then leading active
 
 00:28:41.682 --> 00:28:43.224
 revolutionary activities
 
 00:28:43.545 --> 00:28:45.146
 like burning of ships and
 
 00:28:45.166 --> 00:28:46.788
 throwing tea to the Boston harbor.
 
 00:28:47.648 --> 00:28:49.770
 Now, are there taverns in other colonies,
 
 00:28:49.851 --> 00:28:51.172
 or is Massachusetts or the
 
 00:28:51.192 --> 00:28:52.452
 New England colonies unique
 
 00:28:52.472 --> 00:28:54.134
 in having such a strong tavern culture?
 
 00:28:56.327 --> 00:28:58.568
 Well, in some ways unique,
 
 00:28:58.588 --> 00:29:00.308
 in some ways not.
 
 00:29:00.368 --> 00:29:01.730
 All the other colonies did have towns.
 
 00:29:02.150 --> 00:29:03.390
 And a lot of them did also
 
 00:29:03.470 --> 00:29:06.050
 have laws that required
 
 00:29:06.070 --> 00:29:09.192
 them to have places of entertainment.
 
 00:29:09.592 --> 00:29:10.292
 So inns,
 
 00:29:10.313 --> 00:29:11.512
 they would call them different names,
 
 00:29:11.553 --> 00:29:11.873
 of course.
 
 00:29:12.413 --> 00:29:13.473
 But it will be the same type
 
 00:29:13.493 --> 00:29:15.914
 of structure used for the same purposes.
 
 00:29:16.515 --> 00:29:17.914
 So you have laws in Virginia,
 
 00:29:18.055 --> 00:29:19.756
 in the Carolinas, and so forth,
 
 00:29:20.056 --> 00:29:22.836
 calling for towns being required to also
 
 00:29:23.396 --> 00:29:24.659
 have taverns, inns,
 
 00:29:24.699 --> 00:29:26.621
 and so forth because people
 
 00:29:26.661 --> 00:29:27.662
 need places to stay.
 
 00:29:28.262 --> 00:29:30.724
 These were the bed and
 
 00:29:30.744 --> 00:29:33.367
 breakfasts of the earlier
 
 00:29:33.428 --> 00:29:35.150
 times that also served alcohol.
 
 00:29:36.111 --> 00:29:37.372
 It was a place where even if
 
 00:29:37.412 --> 00:29:38.413
 it didn't get too cold,
 
 00:29:39.134 --> 00:29:39.835
 they would still need a
 
 00:29:39.875 --> 00:29:41.316
 place to hold meetings.
 
 00:29:42.034 --> 00:29:43.094
 whether that was a Freemason
 
 00:29:43.134 --> 00:29:45.394
 meeting or an election by
 
 00:29:45.434 --> 00:29:46.515
 the politicians of the town
 
 00:29:46.755 --> 00:29:47.595
 or the local communities.
 
 00:29:48.035 --> 00:29:49.576
 But it's also just a place
 
 00:29:49.875 --> 00:29:50.635
 that allowed for more
 
 00:29:50.875 --> 00:29:52.855
 safety for the local population,
 
 00:29:53.256 --> 00:29:54.557
 for all of these travelers
 
 00:29:54.576 --> 00:29:55.997
 that just needed a place to stay,
 
 00:29:56.396 --> 00:29:58.557
 a place to feed and water
 
 00:29:58.576 --> 00:30:00.478
 their horses and kind of
 
 00:30:00.817 --> 00:30:01.617
 keep things going.
 
 00:30:01.637 --> 00:30:02.897
 So like, I mean, Benjamin Franklin,
 
 00:30:02.958 --> 00:30:04.578
 one of his great ideas is
 
 00:30:04.679 --> 00:30:10.319
 having a colonial wide post office.
 
 00:30:11.464 --> 00:30:14.566
 a way to spread the news from Philadelphia,
 
 00:30:14.605 --> 00:30:17.326
 from Boston, from New York, to Charleston,
 
 00:30:17.386 --> 00:30:19.307
 to all of these other cities,
 
 00:30:19.727 --> 00:30:21.907
 to draw everyone together to be like, hey,
 
 00:30:21.928 --> 00:30:22.248
 listen,
 
 00:30:22.728 --> 00:30:24.429
 we're actually part of the same
 
 00:30:24.469 --> 00:30:26.189
 group in the same place,
 
 00:30:26.730 --> 00:30:28.190
 not just a bunch of very
 
 00:30:28.390 --> 00:30:29.789
 individual colonies.
 
 00:30:30.490 --> 00:30:32.851
 So where people generally meet,
 
 00:30:33.332 --> 00:30:34.571
 where people generally get mail,
 
 00:30:34.711 --> 00:30:35.451
 they'd probably be going to
 
 00:30:35.471 --> 00:30:36.531
 the tavern before you had
 
 00:30:36.813 --> 00:30:37.893
 an established post office.
 
 00:30:38.673 --> 00:30:40.474
 The tavern keeper was not
 
 00:30:40.535 --> 00:30:41.615
 just a tavern keeper.
 
 00:30:41.655 --> 00:30:42.497
 They were also a cook.
 
 00:30:42.517 --> 00:30:43.436
 They were also a brewer.
 
 00:30:43.477 --> 00:30:44.919
 They were also a server.
 
 00:30:44.959 --> 00:30:46.819
 They were also the postmaster general.
 
 00:30:46.839 --> 00:30:48.402
 A lot of times they would
 
 00:30:48.442 --> 00:30:49.982
 also be a local judge.
 
 00:30:50.002 --> 00:30:51.605
 A lot of times they would
 
 00:30:51.744 --> 00:30:54.186
 also be the one who would
 
 00:30:54.346 --> 00:30:56.429
 spread the news from town
 
 00:30:56.469 --> 00:30:58.069
 to town and so forth.
 
 00:30:58.170 --> 00:30:59.270
 The first people to hear
 
 00:30:59.310 --> 00:31:00.913
 about what was going on and
 
 00:31:01.833 --> 00:31:03.375
 the last people to go to sleep at night.
 
 00:31:05.342 --> 00:31:07.065
 We're talking with Malcolm Curranton,
 
 00:31:07.125 --> 00:31:09.209
 author of Globalization in a Glass.
 
 00:31:10.309 --> 00:31:11.251
 I'm wondering, too,
 
 00:31:11.291 --> 00:31:12.513
 there's a Green Dragon
 
 00:31:12.554 --> 00:31:14.196
 Tavern in Boston today.
 
 00:31:14.637 --> 00:31:16.380
 Is that the same tavern that
 
 00:31:16.441 --> 00:31:17.342
 we've been talking about
 
 00:31:17.362 --> 00:31:18.463
 from the revolutionary period?
 
 00:31:19.078 --> 00:31:20.960
 No, not even close, not even close.
 
 00:31:21.299 --> 00:31:22.460
 I do appreciate that they have,
 
 00:31:23.101 --> 00:31:26.261
 that it does exist in some form, but no,
 
 00:31:26.821 --> 00:31:29.522
 the green dragon of yore was,
 
 00:31:29.722 --> 00:31:31.523
 I think it was burned by
 
 00:31:31.644 --> 00:31:32.545
 fire in like the middle of
 
 00:31:32.565 --> 00:31:33.664
 the nineteenth century, I think.
 
 00:31:34.644 --> 00:31:35.506
 So a long time ago.
 
 00:31:35.566 --> 00:31:36.165
 So you don't see,
 
 00:31:36.526 --> 00:31:37.586
 you see kind of like the
 
 00:31:37.626 --> 00:31:39.166
 resurgence of kind of these
 
 00:31:39.227 --> 00:31:40.968
 ideas about the revolution, you know,
 
 00:31:41.067 --> 00:31:42.588
 who was where at what point,
 
 00:31:43.189 --> 00:31:43.929
 really kind of coming
 
 00:31:43.949 --> 00:31:44.950
 through more in the
 
 00:31:44.990 --> 00:31:45.930
 nineteenth century than you
 
 00:31:45.970 --> 00:31:47.851
 saw at the end of the eighteenth century.
 
 00:31:48.230 --> 00:31:49.011
 And so that's when you start
 
 00:31:49.051 --> 00:31:50.553
 seeing places like the Bell
 
 00:31:50.573 --> 00:31:51.534
 in Hand and the Green
 
 00:31:51.554 --> 00:31:54.156
 Dragon coming up and being, you know,
 
 00:31:54.176 --> 00:31:54.837
 crossing the hall.
 
 00:31:55.657 --> 00:31:57.019
 Places for people to go to kind of,
 
 00:31:57.220 --> 00:31:57.480
 you know,
 
 00:31:57.980 --> 00:32:00.623
 bring a tie to that colonial history.
 
 00:32:00.663 --> 00:32:00.884
 Right.
 
 00:32:00.923 --> 00:32:03.086
 Philadelphia has recreated the City Tavern,
 
 00:32:03.105 --> 00:32:04.686
 which was a big gathering place.
 
 00:32:05.208 --> 00:32:05.888
 Oh, absolutely.
 
 00:32:05.929 --> 00:32:07.410
 Oh, God, it was such an important space.
 
 00:32:07.509 --> 00:32:08.570
 I mean, everybody was there.
 
 00:32:09.451 --> 00:32:10.292
 Everybody was there.
 
 00:32:10.353 --> 00:32:11.354
 Yeah.
 
 00:32:11.863 --> 00:32:13.525
 I'm wondering, because I was just thinking,
 
 00:32:13.565 --> 00:32:14.505
 as you were talking,
 
 00:32:14.546 --> 00:32:16.646
 that Washington and others
 
 00:32:16.727 --> 00:32:18.328
 are trying to go from
 
 00:32:19.089 --> 00:32:21.412
 tobacco to wheat and grain.
 
 00:32:21.592 --> 00:32:22.792
 So I'm wondering if that's
 
 00:32:22.853 --> 00:32:24.074
 why we then see a rise in
 
 00:32:24.094 --> 00:32:25.875
 the production of bourbon
 
 00:32:25.976 --> 00:32:27.998
 and other kinds of alcohol
 
 00:32:28.238 --> 00:32:30.019
 after the revolution, as opposed to rum.
 
 00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:30.319
 I mean,
 
 00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:32.261
 it just occurred to me as you were
 
 00:32:32.281 --> 00:32:32.622
 talking.
 
 00:32:33.977 --> 00:32:34.377
 Oh, I mean,
 
 00:32:34.417 --> 00:32:37.201
 corn whiskey becomes a central
 
 00:32:37.422 --> 00:32:41.145
 part of the early America,
 
 00:32:41.165 --> 00:32:42.147
 the early United States,
 
 00:32:42.708 --> 00:32:43.990
 which is why the very first... I mean,
 
 00:32:44.009 --> 00:32:45.251
 you have the Whiskey Rebellion.
 
 00:32:45.372 --> 00:32:46.313
 The Whiskey Rebellion, right.
 
 00:32:46.333 --> 00:32:47.413
 Yes, yes.
 
 00:32:47.474 --> 00:32:48.997
 I mean, it is huge because...
 
 00:32:49.457 --> 00:32:49.958
 Well, I mean,
 
 00:32:50.057 --> 00:32:51.759
 after the American Revolution,
 
 00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:53.060
 suddenly the United States
 
 00:32:53.101 --> 00:32:55.844
 doesn't have any strong partners,
 
 00:32:55.943 --> 00:32:56.805
 like trading partners.
 
 00:32:58.807 --> 00:33:00.489
 Well, they might have had the French.
 
 00:33:00.548 --> 00:33:01.430
 The French go on their own
 
 00:33:01.470 --> 00:33:03.291
 revolution pretty quickly
 
 00:33:03.392 --> 00:33:04.453
 after the American Revolution.
 
 00:33:04.834 --> 00:33:06.214
 So that's also a loss of a
 
 00:33:06.276 --> 00:33:07.297
 huge trading partner, too.
 
 00:33:07.836 --> 00:33:10.397
 So in order to create a local production,
 
 00:33:10.458 --> 00:33:12.278
 a domestic kind of trading network,
 
 00:33:13.097 --> 00:33:15.179
 corn whiskey becomes a really big one.
 
 00:33:15.219 --> 00:33:17.058
 So while corn whiskey will have corn,
 
 00:33:17.098 --> 00:33:18.740
 you can also have rye, wheat, I mean,
 
 00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:19.960
 lots of different types of
 
 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:22.280
 grains to distill into some
 
 00:33:22.320 --> 00:33:22.921
 form of whiskey.
 
 00:33:24.060 --> 00:33:25.401
 It becomes a really
 
 00:33:25.421 --> 00:33:27.781
 important piece of American identity too.
 
 00:33:29.342 --> 00:33:32.242
 while it was part of people's livelihoods,
 
 00:33:32.884 --> 00:33:33.604
 which is why they did not
 
 00:33:33.683 --> 00:33:34.544
 want the whiskey to be
 
 00:33:34.604 --> 00:33:36.704
 taxed by this new federal government,
 
 00:33:36.904 --> 00:33:39.346
 which is why they fight for
 
 00:33:39.365 --> 00:33:40.266
 that during the rebellion,
 
 00:33:40.806 --> 00:33:42.787
 which does get put down
 
 00:33:43.487 --> 00:33:44.307
 relatively quickly.
 
 00:33:44.327 --> 00:33:44.448
 I mean,
 
 00:33:44.468 --> 00:33:46.728
 it's the first real threat to the
 
 00:33:46.948 --> 00:33:47.628
 early country.
 
 00:33:48.608 --> 00:33:49.128
 But it really kind of
 
 00:33:49.148 --> 00:33:50.170
 emphasizes the importance
 
 00:33:50.430 --> 00:33:52.109
 of this substance,
 
 00:33:52.309 --> 00:33:54.770
 but also what is the
 
 00:33:54.871 --> 00:33:56.192
 control of kind of states
 
 00:33:56.231 --> 00:33:57.192
 versus federal government.
 
 00:33:57.662 --> 00:33:58.882
 You know, seeing, you know, like,
 
 00:33:59.041 --> 00:34:00.343
 are we a bunch of colonies
 
 00:34:00.363 --> 00:34:02.023
 that now become states or
 
 00:34:02.443 --> 00:34:03.763
 are we a country that is
 
 00:34:03.804 --> 00:34:04.884
 run by a federal government?
 
 00:34:05.305 --> 00:34:06.444
 And so we see that tie
 
 00:34:06.464 --> 00:34:08.846
 directly to that alcohol production.
 
 00:34:09.045 --> 00:34:10.565
 It's fascinating.
 
 00:34:11.626 --> 00:34:13.286
 We're talking with Malcolm Purinton,
 
 00:34:13.347 --> 00:34:15.027
 author of Globalization in the Glass.
 
 00:34:15.088 --> 00:34:16.929
 I think just we could go on
 
 00:34:17.128 --> 00:34:18.909
 talking all day, but it's almost noon.
 
 00:34:19.048 --> 00:34:19.829
 I know what you're probably
 
 00:34:19.869 --> 00:34:20.869
 going to start doing once
 
 00:34:20.909 --> 00:34:23.530
 the sun is over the yardarm.
 
 00:34:24.925 --> 00:34:25.907
 What about these apple trees
 
 00:34:25.927 --> 00:34:27.210
 that Johnny Appleseed planted?
 
 00:34:27.289 --> 00:34:28.652
 All these apples,
 
 00:34:28.672 --> 00:34:30.335
 you talked about these hard knobby things,
 
 00:34:30.556 --> 00:34:31.679
 they're like crab apples.
 
 00:34:31.699 --> 00:34:33.101
 So what happens to all those trees?
 
 00:34:34.809 --> 00:34:36.030
 They live a pretty good life
 
 00:34:36.070 --> 00:34:37.471
 for the nineteenth century.
 
 00:34:38.731 --> 00:34:39.432
 Like a pretty good one.
 
 00:34:39.813 --> 00:34:40.512
 He made it all the way out
 
 00:34:40.552 --> 00:34:41.614
 to the Ohio area.
 
 00:34:42.994 --> 00:34:44.335
 Because, I mean, it was also,
 
 00:34:44.695 --> 00:34:45.916
 hide cider is just as easy
 
 00:34:45.936 --> 00:34:48.356
 to make today as it is before.
 
 00:34:48.637 --> 00:34:48.777
 I mean,
 
 00:34:48.818 --> 00:34:50.978
 I've been home brewing for decades now,
 
 00:34:50.998 --> 00:34:52.340
 and I made some hide cider.
 
 00:34:52.539 --> 00:34:53.900
 It is very, very easy to do.
 
 00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:55.240
 There's already yeast on the
 
 00:34:56.942 --> 00:34:58.202
 outside of that apple.
 
 00:34:58.643 --> 00:35:00.003
 You don't even need to add anything else.
 
 00:35:00.905 --> 00:35:02.005
 But what happens to Johnny
 
 00:35:02.085 --> 00:35:04.108
 Appleseed's trees is,
 
 00:35:04.449 --> 00:35:05.329
 like most things in the
 
 00:35:05.349 --> 00:35:08.152
 nineteen twenties involved alcohol,
 
 00:35:08.211 --> 00:35:09.333
 they get destroyed.
 
 00:35:10.635 --> 00:35:13.737
 So you actually saw acres of
 
 00:35:14.677 --> 00:35:16.960
 apple orchards being just
 
 00:35:17.240 --> 00:35:18.983
 completely just cut down and burned.
 
 00:35:19.958 --> 00:35:21.039
 So that's what happened to most of those.
 
 00:35:21.059 --> 00:35:21.199
 I mean,
 
 00:35:21.219 --> 00:35:23.940
 you don't see a growing cider
 
 00:35:24.001 --> 00:35:25.501
 industry until really the past like,
 
 00:35:25.541 --> 00:35:27.304
 fifteen to twenty years.
 
 00:35:27.903 --> 00:35:28.184
 You know,
 
 00:35:28.204 --> 00:35:29.385
 going along with the craft beer
 
 00:35:29.405 --> 00:35:29.844
 revolution,
 
 00:35:29.905 --> 00:35:32.367
 you saw a craft cidery
 
 00:35:32.427 --> 00:35:34.329
 revolution going alongside that too.
 
 00:35:34.568 --> 00:35:35.969
 So that's what ends up
 
 00:35:36.010 --> 00:35:37.911
 happening to most of those
 
 00:35:37.931 --> 00:35:38.911
 Johnny Appleseed trees.
 
 00:35:38.972 --> 00:35:39.472
 Interesting.
 
 00:35:39.992 --> 00:35:40.994
 Do you also make beer?
 
 00:35:42.054 --> 00:35:42.454
 Oh, yes.
 
 00:35:42.534 --> 00:35:42.655
 Yeah.
 
 00:35:42.675 --> 00:35:43.614
 I've been doing that since college.
 
 00:35:44.295 --> 00:35:45.277
 Yeah.
 
 00:35:45.376 --> 00:35:46.577
 It's a lot of fun, you know, just,
 
 00:35:46.597 --> 00:35:48.318
 you know, making my own porters,
 
 00:35:48.358 --> 00:35:48.980
 brown ales.
 
 00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:50.061
 A lot of them I don't really
 
 00:35:50.440 --> 00:35:51.782
 fit to any particular style.
 
 00:35:51.922 --> 00:35:53.903
 I just kind of, hmm, what do I,
 
 00:35:53.983 --> 00:35:55.045
 what type of flavor would I
 
 00:35:55.105 --> 00:35:55.784
 like and what type of
 
 00:35:55.824 --> 00:35:56.606
 ingredients do I want to
 
 00:35:56.646 --> 00:35:57.347
 mess around with?
 
 00:35:57.806 --> 00:36:00.268
 You know, five gallon batches for, yeah,
 
 00:36:00.309 --> 00:36:00.668
 for fun.
 
 00:36:01.090 --> 00:36:01.449
 Yeah.
 
 00:36:01.976 --> 00:36:02.918
 Yeah, I have a former student.
 
 00:36:02.938 --> 00:36:04.137
 He's actually involved with
 
 00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:06.440
 Lexington in upstate New York,
 
 00:36:06.519 --> 00:36:07.260
 and he has a farm.
 
 00:36:07.340 --> 00:36:09.360
 He came to Boston, became a teacher,
 
 00:36:09.380 --> 00:36:10.981
 but he began making beer as
 
 00:36:11.021 --> 00:36:13.003
 a hobby in his apartment in the North End,
 
 00:36:13.063 --> 00:36:14.184
 and it was terrible at first.
 
 00:36:14.445 --> 00:36:15.664
 But now he actually has a brewery,
 
 00:36:15.844 --> 00:36:17.927
 and he's won awards for his beer.
 
 00:36:18.027 --> 00:36:19.728
 Oh, nice.
 
 00:36:20.168 --> 00:36:21.329
 Oh, I'd love to get his details then.
 
 00:36:21.429 --> 00:36:22.690
 I'll put you in touch with him.
 
 00:36:22.949 --> 00:36:23.889
 I know you are the guy
 
 00:36:23.909 --> 00:36:25.610
 looking for investigating
 
 00:36:25.992 --> 00:36:26.911
 modern beer making.
 
 00:36:27.192 --> 00:36:27.793
 Did the folks in
 
 00:36:27.813 --> 00:36:29.273
 Massachusetts grow hops and
 
 00:36:29.293 --> 00:36:30.454
 the other ingredients to beer,
 
 00:36:30.514 --> 00:36:31.675
 or did they have to work those?
 
 00:36:32.056 --> 00:36:32.677
 Oh, absolutely.
 
 00:36:32.777 --> 00:36:33.056
 Actually,
 
 00:36:33.898 --> 00:36:35.918
 like Massachusetts and Vermont
 
 00:36:35.998 --> 00:36:38.699
 became really big hop exporting regions.
 
 00:36:39.478 --> 00:36:41.340
 I mean, today we have Four Star Farms,
 
 00:36:41.860 --> 00:36:43.420
 which is in Western Mass.
 
 00:36:44.039 --> 00:36:45.740
 They actually have their own brewery, too,
 
 00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:48.081
 but they're like the first
 
 00:36:48.141 --> 00:36:50.041
 real kind of local hop production farm.
 
 00:36:50.581 --> 00:36:51.581
 um of the twenty first
 
 00:36:51.621 --> 00:36:53.043
 century um which is really
 
 00:36:53.063 --> 00:36:54.422
 great um upstate new york
 
 00:36:54.503 --> 00:36:55.664
 actually then becomes like
 
 00:36:55.704 --> 00:36:57.284
 eclipses everybody uh
 
 00:36:57.324 --> 00:36:58.385
 becomes not only like one
 
 00:36:58.405 --> 00:36:59.644
 of the major bread bread
 
 00:36:59.664 --> 00:37:02.826
 baskets um for the early uh
 
 00:37:03.065 --> 00:37:04.746
 early country uh but also
 
 00:37:05.027 --> 00:37:06.688
 really important for hop
 
 00:37:06.708 --> 00:37:08.228
 growing um and barley
 
 00:37:08.248 --> 00:37:09.628
 growing uh for beer
 
 00:37:09.648 --> 00:37:12.710
 production especially yeah
 
 00:37:13.030 --> 00:37:14.469
 well thank you we've been
 
 00:37:14.510 --> 00:37:16.170
 talking with uh malcolm purinton
 
 00:37:16.969 --> 00:37:18.951
 author of Globalization in a Glass,
 
 00:37:18.990 --> 00:37:20.213
 The Rise of Pilsner Beer
 
 00:37:20.233 --> 00:37:22.514
 Through Technology, Taste, and Empire,
 
 00:37:22.916 --> 00:37:24.777
 columnist for the Yankee Brew News,
 
 00:37:24.858 --> 00:37:25.898
 and an assistant teaching
 
 00:37:25.938 --> 00:37:27.481
 professor of history at
 
 00:37:27.581 --> 00:37:28.782
 Northeastern University.
 
 00:37:29.061 --> 00:37:30.543
 Malcolm, thanks so much for joining us.
 
 00:37:31.344 --> 00:37:32.065
 My pleasure, Bob.
 
 00:37:32.186 --> 00:37:33.146
 Thanks so much for having me.
 
 00:37:34.340 --> 00:37:35.641
 I want to thank Jonathan Lane,
 
 00:37:35.701 --> 00:37:37.521
 our producer, the man behind the curtain,
 
 00:37:37.581 --> 00:37:38.661
 as well as our listeners.
 
 00:37:38.702 --> 00:37:40.222
 And Jonathan just told me
 
 00:37:40.282 --> 00:37:41.663
 he's been calculating and
 
 00:37:41.682 --> 00:37:43.043
 that over the course of our podcast,
 
 00:37:43.063 --> 00:37:44.163
 we've had something like
 
 00:37:44.182 --> 00:37:45.043
 one hundred and seventy
 
 00:37:45.103 --> 00:37:46.623
 thousand people tuning in
 
 00:37:46.664 --> 00:37:48.784
 to individual episodes, which is amazing.
 
 00:37:48.864 --> 00:37:50.764
 And one hundred nineteen countries,
 
 00:37:50.824 --> 00:37:52.425
 four thousand cities and towns.
 
 00:37:52.445 --> 00:37:53.485
 And I want to thank everyone
 
 00:37:53.525 --> 00:37:56.025
 for tuning in today and other.
 
 00:37:56.956 --> 00:37:58.077
 The other two hundred fifty
 
 00:37:58.117 --> 00:37:59.260
 plus episodes and every
 
 00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:00.501
 week we thank some folks in
 
 00:38:00.541 --> 00:38:01.362
 different places.
 
 00:38:01.422 --> 00:38:02.423
 And if you're in one of
 
 00:38:02.443 --> 00:38:03.485
 these places and want some
 
 00:38:03.505 --> 00:38:05.847
 of our Revolution to fifty swag, Jonathan,
 
 00:38:05.907 --> 00:38:07.190
 I know is making more
 
 00:38:07.250 --> 00:38:08.391
 magnets and other things.
 
 00:38:08.431 --> 00:38:09.592
 Send him an email at Jay
 
 00:38:09.652 --> 00:38:11.996
 Lane at Revolution to five zero dot org.
 
 00:38:12.637 --> 00:38:15.179
 And this week, our listeners in Binghamton,
 
 00:38:15.219 --> 00:38:18.262
 New York, Seguin, Texas, Christiansburg,
 
 00:38:18.302 --> 00:38:20.784
 Virginia, Cape Town in South Africa,
 
 00:38:20.844 --> 00:38:22.023
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 00:38:22.485 --> 00:38:23.485
 and in the great state of
 
 00:38:23.525 --> 00:38:26.307
 Ohio in Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Amelia,
 
 00:38:26.768 --> 00:38:29.150
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 00:38:29.510 --> 00:38:32.693
 Kaohsiung, Taiwan, Oslo, Edinburgh,
 
 00:38:32.733 --> 00:38:34.233
 Tel Aviv, Mexico City,
 
 00:38:34.293 --> 00:38:35.695
 all places between and beyond.
 
 00:38:35.735 --> 00:38:36.596
 Thanks for joining us.
 
 00:38:36.695 --> 00:38:38.217
 Now we'll be piped out on
 
 00:38:38.237 --> 00:38:39.077
 the road to Boston.