Treasures of the American Revolution at the Clements Library

Founded in 1923 through the gift of  William Lawrence Clements, the William L. Clements Library at the University of Michigan is a fount of historical manuscripts, maps and rare books, particularly on the American Revolution.  Their collections include the papers of General Thomas Gage, and General Henry Clinton, two of the leading British military leaders during the American Revolution, as well as Lord George Germain, a cabinet minister and Hessian General von Jungkenn.  The Clements library is currently engaged digitizing the Gage and Clinton papers, making these resources available to scholars world-wide, and an exhibit on April 19, 1775, which will open on April 18, 2025.  We talk with Paul J. Erickson, the Randolph G. Adams Director of the Clements Library, and Cheney Schopieray, Curator of Manuscripts, about the treasures the Clements hold, how scholars and students can access them, and what are their favorite things (today) in this tremendous archive. 

Transcript

WEBVTT
 
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 Hello, everyone.
 
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 Welcome to the Revolution
 
 00:00:02.613 --> 00:00:03.955
 two fifty podcast.
 
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 I am Bob Allison.
 
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 I chair the Rev two fifty advisory group.
 
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 We're a consortium of about
 
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 seventy five organizations
 
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 in Massachusetts planning
 
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 commemorations of the
 
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 beginnings of American independence.
 
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 And our guests today are
 
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 from the great state of Michigan.
 
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 Paul J. Erickson is the
 
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 Randolph G. Adams director
 
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 of the Clements Library.
 
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 And Cheney Chopre is the
 
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 curator of manuscripts at
 
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 the Clements Library,
 
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 which is a tremendous place in Ann Arbor,
 
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 Michigan.
 
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 And I'll let Cheney and Paul
 
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 tell us more about the
 
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 Clements Library and why
 
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 everyone interested in the
 
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 American Revolution should
 
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 pay a visit or check out their website.
 
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 So, Paul,
 
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 why don't you tell us about the
 
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 Clements Library?
 
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 Sure.
 
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 And Bob,
 
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 thanks so much for the invitation
 
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 to join you today.
 
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 And thanks to Jonathan Lane
 
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 for all his work arranging this.
 
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 It's great to be with you.
 
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 So the Clements Library is
 
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 absolutely one of the
 
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 treasures of the University
 
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 of Michigan campus,
 
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 of the State of Michigan,
 
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 as well as of the sort of
 
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 ecosystem of special
 
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 collections libraries
 
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 focused on early Americana
 
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 around the country.
 
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 As you saw,
 
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 the Clements Library is right
 
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 at the heart of the
 
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 University of Michigan
 
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 Central Campus in Ann Arbor.
 
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 We're directly next door to
 
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 the President's House on
 
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 South University Avenue.
 
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 The Clements Library was founded in
 
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 So last year was our centennial.
 
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 Congratulations.
 
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 Thank you.
 
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 And as you would expect,
 
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 it was founded by a man
 
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 named William Clements,
 
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 who was born in Ann Arbor
 
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 in eighteen sixty one.
 
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 His father was a faculty
 
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 member at the university.
 
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 He grew up here in town,
 
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 attended the university.
 
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 He was one of the first
 
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 engineering students at the
 
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 University of Michigan.
 
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 And when he graduated,
 
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 he went to work for a
 
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 company that his father had
 
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 a connection with.
 
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 in Northeast Michigan called
 
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 the Bay City Industrial Works.
 
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 And the Industrial Works
 
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 made big industrial
 
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 machines that were mounted on rail cars,
 
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 things like cranes and
 
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 steam shovels and hoists.
 
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 He eventually became the
 
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 president of the company,
 
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 became a wealthy man,
 
 00:02:08.318 --> 00:02:09.979
 and in addition was elected
 
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 to the Board of Regents of
 
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 the University of Michigan,
 
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 where he served for over twenty years.
 
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 In the late nineteenth century,
 
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 he became interested in book collecting,
 
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 thanks to a group of folks
 
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 in Bay City that he became connected with,
 
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 and formed a very strong
 
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 collection of materials
 
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 related to European contact
 
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 in the Americas,
 
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 as well as the colonial
 
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 period in North America.
 
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 And in nineteen twenty one,
 
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 he decided to donate that
 
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 collection to the University of Michigan,
 
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 along with money to build the building,
 
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 because he felt that a great university
 
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 needed a great collection of
 
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 early Americana,
 
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 thinking about collections
 
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 on the East Coast,
 
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 and particularly he was
 
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 inspired by the example of
 
 00:02:52.780 --> 00:02:53.961
 the John Carter Brown Library.
 
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 So he donated his collection
 
 00:02:58.425 --> 00:03:00.388
 of mostly books and maps to
 
 00:03:00.407 --> 00:03:01.087
 the university,
 
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 along with money to build the building.
 
 00:03:02.870 --> 00:03:03.311
 We opened in
 
 00:03:11.127 --> 00:03:12.647
 a bug that passes easily.
 
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 So he donated his collection
 
 00:03:15.229 --> 00:03:16.308
 and then he went back home
 
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 to Bay City and his shelves
 
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 were empty and he was kind of sad.
 
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 And so Henry Stevens was the
 
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 agent he worked with in
 
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 England who had helped him
 
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 build his collection.
 
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 And he got in touch with Mr.
 
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 Clements and said, you know,
 
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 there are some
 
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 some large manuscript
 
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 collections related to the
 
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 history of the American
 
 00:03:35.043 --> 00:03:36.084
 Revolution that are still
 
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 in family hands in Britain
 
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 that might be available for sale.
 
 00:03:41.288 --> 00:03:41.969
 If you were interested,
 
 00:03:42.009 --> 00:03:43.031
 he hadn't really collected
 
 00:03:43.091 --> 00:03:44.891
 manuscripts in a concerted way before.
 
 00:03:45.552 --> 00:03:48.316
 And so that he embarked on a
 
 00:03:48.455 --> 00:03:49.877
 second wave of collecting
 
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 and that brought
 
 00:03:52.699 --> 00:03:54.199
 the revolutionary war
 
 00:03:54.239 --> 00:03:55.319
 collections to the Clements
 
 00:03:56.860 --> 00:03:58.539
 that are still our most
 
 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:00.040
 heavily used and most
 
 00:04:00.061 --> 00:04:01.640
 frequently cited collections.
 
 00:04:02.600 --> 00:04:04.681
 Papers of Thomas Gage and
 
 00:04:04.701 --> 00:04:05.822
 Henry Clinton and other
 
 00:04:05.842 --> 00:04:06.861
 folks that Cheney will talk
 
 00:04:06.882 --> 00:04:09.502
 about in a bit that
 
 00:04:09.622 --> 00:04:11.002
 combined really make the
 
 00:04:11.043 --> 00:04:12.324
 Clements the best place in
 
 00:04:12.364 --> 00:04:13.704
 the US to study the British
 
 00:04:13.743 --> 00:04:14.343
 side of the war.
 
 00:04:14.364 --> 00:04:16.365
 It's really amazing that you
 
 00:04:16.384 --> 00:04:17.264
 have these collections.
 
 00:04:18.281 --> 00:04:18.922
 It's incredible.
 
 00:04:19.041 --> 00:04:21.704
 And people always ask, well,
 
 00:04:21.843 --> 00:04:23.846
 why are these collections in Michigan?
 
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 Why aren't they in London or
 
 00:04:26.348 --> 00:04:28.089
 why aren't they in Boston or New York?
 
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 And the answer is that this
 
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 was kind of the golden age
 
 00:04:32.754 --> 00:04:34.675
 of collecting for wealthy Americans.
 
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 And Mr. Clements had both
 
 00:04:37.737 --> 00:04:39.480
 the money to get the things
 
 00:04:39.500 --> 00:04:40.321
 that he was interested in,
 
 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:42.021
 but I think more importantly, he had...
 
 00:04:45.201 --> 00:04:47.002
 very specific focus for his
 
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 collecting compared with
 
 00:04:48.644 --> 00:04:49.723
 other folks who were
 
 00:04:50.504 --> 00:04:51.444
 building large collections
 
 00:04:51.464 --> 00:04:52.324
 at the time like J.P.
 
 00:04:52.345 --> 00:04:53.305
 Morgan and Henry Huntington.
 
 00:04:55.526 --> 00:04:57.247
 And he was very smart about
 
 00:04:57.288 --> 00:04:59.608
 the way he went about it.
 
 00:04:59.668 --> 00:05:03.149
 So we now have four collecting divisions,
 
 00:05:03.209 --> 00:05:05.752
 manuscripts, maps, graphics,
 
 00:05:05.791 --> 00:05:06.572
 and printed books.
 
 00:05:07.052 --> 00:05:08.773
 We have over
 
 00:05:10.194 --> 00:05:11.156
 We have close to a thousand
 
 00:05:11.216 --> 00:05:12.156
 undergraduate students come
 
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 to the Clements for class
 
 00:05:13.076 --> 00:05:14.218
 sessions to work with
 
 00:05:14.237 --> 00:05:15.718
 original materials every semester.
 
 00:05:15.738 --> 00:05:16.718
 It's one of the great things
 
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 about being located on a
 
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 big research university campus.
 
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 We give close to a thirty
 
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 visiting research
 
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 fellowships every year for
 
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 people to come use the collections.
 
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 Great.
 
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 Chaney,
 
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 I'll turn it over to Chaney who can
 
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 talk a bit more about our
 
 00:05:34.410 --> 00:05:35.050
 Revolutionary War
 
 00:05:35.071 --> 00:05:35.990
 manuscript collections and
 
 00:05:36.110 --> 00:05:36.812
 what we do with them.
 
 00:05:38.843 --> 00:05:39.202
 Yes.
 
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 One of the aspects of the
 
 00:05:43.966 --> 00:05:44.927
 Clements Library's
 
 00:05:44.987 --> 00:05:46.827
 collections that is
 
 00:05:47.649 --> 00:05:49.490
 particularly amazing to me,
 
 00:05:50.069 --> 00:05:52.632
 having been here for twenty years plus,
 
 00:05:52.711 --> 00:05:53.853
 I'm still amazed
 
 00:05:54.420 --> 00:05:56.281
 at how well the collections
 
 00:05:56.322 --> 00:05:57.742
 intertwine with one another.
 
 00:05:58.122 --> 00:06:00.425
 And the Revolutionary War
 
 00:06:00.485 --> 00:06:01.766
 collections certainly do.
 
 00:06:02.867 --> 00:06:04.908
 But I'd like to preface this
 
 00:06:04.988 --> 00:06:06.009
 also by saying that the
 
 00:06:06.028 --> 00:06:07.870
 Clements collections extend
 
 00:06:08.511 --> 00:06:10.432
 well beyond the Revolution
 
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 and well beyond the world of military,
 
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 military papers.
 
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 We have, in the Manuscripts Division,
 
 00:06:18.437 --> 00:06:19.759
 well over three thousand
 
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 collections of materials that range from,
 
 00:06:25.221 --> 00:06:25.422
 you know,
 
 00:06:25.461 --> 00:06:26.762
 teenage girls' diaries in the
 
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 eighteen nineties to, you know,
 
 00:06:31.466 --> 00:06:32.745
 to the letters of General
 
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 Washington and Greene that
 
 00:06:34.627 --> 00:06:35.148
 are part of the
 
 00:06:35.168 --> 00:06:36.528
 Revolutionary Collections.
 
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 As I talk about these,
 
 00:06:38.529 --> 00:06:39.750
 just think of them as the
 
 00:06:39.769 --> 00:06:41.391
 sort of tip of the iceberg,
 
 00:06:41.430 --> 00:06:42.932
 although the tip that's by
 
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 far the most well-known and
 
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 most utilized at the library.
 
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 So it's difficult to try to
 
 00:06:52.637 --> 00:06:55.177
 summarize the scope of our
 
 00:06:55.218 --> 00:06:56.358
 revolutionary holdings.
 
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 Certainly we have,
 
 00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:00.100
 Mr. Clements was collecting
 
 00:07:00.141 --> 00:07:01.341
 the printed materials and
 
 00:07:01.442 --> 00:07:03.343
 books and broadsides and so on.
 
 00:07:04.497 --> 00:07:06.497
 But in manuscripts now,
 
 00:07:06.577 --> 00:07:07.778
 I think if we were to stack
 
 00:07:07.798 --> 00:07:10.718
 the papers on top of one another,
 
 00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:12.500
 they'd be at least a couple
 
 00:07:12.540 --> 00:07:15.380
 hundred feet high.
 
 00:07:15.440 --> 00:07:20.663
 We have nearly two hundred
 
 00:07:20.702 --> 00:07:23.062
 collections that have part
 
 00:07:23.142 --> 00:07:25.483
 or all of them pertinent to
 
 00:07:25.504 --> 00:07:27.204
 the revolutionary era.
 
 00:07:28.870 --> 00:07:30.632
 Paul mentioned the most well-known,
 
 00:07:30.672 --> 00:07:32.913
 which Mr. Clements had acquired.
 
 00:07:33.033 --> 00:07:34.495
 They're also the most extensive.
 
 00:07:35.814 --> 00:07:36.995
 He acquired in the twenties
 
 00:07:37.055 --> 00:07:39.538
 the papers of General Thomas Gage,
 
 00:07:40.218 --> 00:07:41.338
 who had served under
 
 00:07:41.418 --> 00:07:43.199
 Geoffrey Amherst during the
 
 00:07:43.339 --> 00:07:44.740
 Seven Years' War or the
 
 00:07:44.761 --> 00:07:47.343
 French and Indian War in the Americas.
 
 00:07:48.677 --> 00:07:50.478
 and then inherited some of
 
 00:07:50.697 --> 00:07:53.338
 Amherst's papers and set to
 
 00:07:53.418 --> 00:07:54.980
 developing his own as he
 
 00:07:55.019 --> 00:07:58.480
 became first governor of Montreal in
 
 00:08:00.531 --> 00:08:01.432
 and then commander of the
 
 00:08:01.451 --> 00:08:03.052
 British forces in North
 
 00:08:03.093 --> 00:08:04.754
 America from seventeen
 
 00:08:04.814 --> 00:08:05.834
 sixty three until the
 
 00:08:05.874 --> 00:08:07.014
 outbreak of the revolution.
 
 00:08:07.134 --> 00:08:08.935
 So for his collection,
 
 00:08:08.954 --> 00:08:09.956
 we're talking about
 
 00:08:10.815 --> 00:08:11.836
 somewhere around twenty
 
 00:08:11.956 --> 00:08:15.858
 three thousand and ten manuscripts,
 
 00:08:15.958 --> 00:08:16.458
 letters,
 
 00:08:16.637 --> 00:08:18.538
 documents and other materials
 
 00:08:19.098 --> 00:08:20.100
 that really represent the
 
 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:21.779
 highest level of both
 
 00:08:21.819 --> 00:08:24.341
 military and administration
 
 00:08:24.721 --> 00:08:26.442
 in the colonies.
 
 00:08:27.182 --> 00:08:27.341
 So.
 
 00:08:28.843 --> 00:08:31.346
 Anyone who's submitting
 
 00:08:31.427 --> 00:08:33.549
 petitions to the British government,
 
 00:08:34.211 --> 00:08:37.855
 people who are contractors for the army,
 
 00:08:39.514 --> 00:08:40.794
 They're all writing to and
 
 00:08:40.835 --> 00:08:42.676
 from Gage from posts
 
 00:08:42.716 --> 00:08:45.556
 ranging from as far south
 
 00:08:45.615 --> 00:08:47.697
 in the Caribbean as the
 
 00:08:48.057 --> 00:08:52.518
 British had posts to up
 
 00:08:52.557 --> 00:08:54.457
 into Canada and as far west
 
 00:08:54.577 --> 00:08:58.038
 as the areas in what had
 
 00:08:58.078 --> 00:08:59.818
 been French-controlled areas before
 
 00:09:02.701 --> 00:09:03.202
 It really is an
 
 00:09:03.263 --> 00:09:04.727
 extraordinary collection
 
 00:09:04.768 --> 00:09:07.157
 for the study of British
 
 00:09:07.216 --> 00:09:08.741
 North America during that time.
 
 00:09:10.802 --> 00:09:13.163
 Those were acquired in nineteen thirty.
 
 00:09:13.624 --> 00:09:14.664
 Earlier he had acquired the
 
 00:09:14.705 --> 00:09:17.668
 papers of Henry Clinton who
 
 00:09:18.448 --> 00:09:19.809
 had served under William
 
 00:09:19.850 --> 00:09:22.392
 Howe beginning in seventeen
 
 00:09:22.451 --> 00:09:23.753
 seventy-five during the
 
 00:09:23.832 --> 00:09:26.355
 revolution and then during
 
 00:09:26.375 --> 00:09:27.495
 the American Revolution and
 
 00:09:27.535 --> 00:09:29.918
 then took over command of
 
 00:09:29.938 --> 00:09:31.139
 the army in seventeen
 
 00:09:31.259 --> 00:09:33.761
 seventy-eight and so the
 
 00:09:35.163 --> 00:09:35.383
 You know,
 
 00:09:35.423 --> 00:09:37.344
 the seventeen thousand or so
 
 00:09:37.403 --> 00:09:38.724
 manuscripts that comprise
 
 00:09:38.764 --> 00:09:40.965
 his collection represent
 
 00:09:41.024 --> 00:09:42.884
 the sort of apparatus of
 
 00:09:43.485 --> 00:09:44.765
 every aspect of the British
 
 00:09:44.905 --> 00:09:47.605
 army from the commanding
 
 00:09:47.666 --> 00:09:48.807
 general's perspective.
 
 00:09:49.466 --> 00:09:50.506
 We also have papers of
 
 00:09:51.486 --> 00:09:54.847
 British auxiliary German forces,
 
 00:09:54.927 --> 00:09:55.969
 the mercenaries that were
 
 00:09:55.989 --> 00:09:58.068
 hired by George III to fight,
 
 00:09:58.269 --> 00:10:00.090
 the papers of Friedrich von Junkern.
 
 00:10:02.043 --> 00:10:05.285
 include journals and reports
 
 00:10:05.365 --> 00:10:06.846
 and letters and so on,
 
 00:10:07.106 --> 00:10:08.148
 much of them written in
 
 00:10:09.668 --> 00:10:11.649
 German shrift and not some French,
 
 00:10:13.251 --> 00:10:15.052
 but a couple of linear feet
 
 00:10:15.092 --> 00:10:15.974
 of his materials.
 
 00:10:17.912 --> 00:10:18.991
 Please feel free to interrupt me.
 
 00:10:19.312 --> 00:10:21.173
 I can talk at length.
 
 00:10:22.474 --> 00:10:22.953
 This is great.
 
 00:10:23.274 --> 00:10:25.254
 We're talking with Cheney Chaupere,
 
 00:10:25.294 --> 00:10:26.235
 who is the curator of
 
 00:10:26.296 --> 00:10:27.635
 manuscripts at the William
 
 00:10:27.755 --> 00:10:30.057
 L. Clements Library in Ann Arbor,
 
 00:10:30.096 --> 00:10:31.238
 as well as Paul Erickson,
 
 00:10:31.258 --> 00:10:33.519
 who is Randolph Adams'
 
 00:10:33.558 --> 00:10:35.418
 director of the Clements Library,
 
 00:10:35.438 --> 00:10:36.379
 about this extraordinary
 
 00:10:36.440 --> 00:10:38.020
 collection that William
 
 00:10:38.041 --> 00:10:39.520
 Clements gathered in the
 
 00:10:39.581 --> 00:10:40.841
 early twentieth century.
 
 00:10:42.222 --> 00:10:43.604
 And you've done some really
 
 00:10:43.744 --> 00:10:44.484
 interesting things.
 
 00:10:44.504 --> 00:10:45.725
 You have this great online
 
 00:10:45.764 --> 00:10:46.765
 exhibit on the art of
 
 00:10:46.785 --> 00:10:49.368
 resistance in early America, which, again,
 
 00:10:49.488 --> 00:10:50.708
 is the tip of an iceberg.
 
 00:10:50.749 --> 00:10:51.850
 You show some of the really
 
 00:10:52.091 --> 00:10:53.491
 interesting things you have, you know,
 
 00:10:53.532 --> 00:10:55.393
 Thomas Paine's Common Sense,
 
 00:10:55.432 --> 00:10:56.094
 as well as Phyllis
 
 00:10:56.173 --> 00:10:57.575
 Wheatley's Book of Poetry,
 
 00:10:58.054 --> 00:10:59.475
 but then also this Rebus of
 
 00:10:59.535 --> 00:11:01.577
 America to a Mistaken Mother from,
 
 00:11:01.597 --> 00:11:03.259
 I think, I mean,
 
 00:11:04.259 --> 00:11:06.481
 really interesting ways that, you know,
 
 00:11:06.522 --> 00:11:07.883
 you can get at this history
 
 00:11:07.923 --> 00:11:08.984
 with the documents and the
 
 00:11:09.024 --> 00:11:10.125
 collections you have.
 
 00:11:12.125 --> 00:11:12.725
 I don't know if that was a
 
 00:11:12.764 --> 00:11:13.566
 question or just a
 
 00:11:13.625 --> 00:11:14.366
 statement about what a
 
 00:11:14.407 --> 00:11:16.148
 great place the Clements Library is.
 
 00:11:17.109 --> 00:11:19.009
 You also have George Germain's papers.
 
 00:11:19.129 --> 00:11:20.250
 He was the, one of the,
 
 00:11:21.272 --> 00:11:21.912
 one of the interesting
 
 00:11:21.951 --> 00:11:22.913
 things about the characters
 
 00:11:22.932 --> 00:11:24.374
 whose papers you collect is
 
 00:11:24.573 --> 00:11:26.075
 they often didn't really
 
 00:11:26.176 --> 00:11:27.235
 like each other or get
 
 00:11:27.296 --> 00:11:28.677
 along with each other.
 
 00:11:29.378 --> 00:11:31.318
 And, you know, reading Henry Clinton,
 
 00:11:31.419 --> 00:11:32.039
 everything would have been
 
 00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:33.120
 much different if people
 
 00:11:33.140 --> 00:11:34.221
 had listened to him.
 
 00:11:35.001 --> 00:11:36.682
 And I wonder if you get a sense of that,
 
 00:11:36.783 --> 00:11:36.943
 you know,
 
 00:11:37.004 --> 00:11:38.105
 when you have all of these
 
 00:11:38.125 --> 00:11:39.885
 papers gathered in the same place.
 
 00:11:42.470 --> 00:11:43.030
 You do,
 
 00:11:43.211 --> 00:11:45.351
 and you also very much get an
 
 00:11:45.832 --> 00:11:50.416
 impression of how the
 
 00:11:50.535 --> 00:11:51.897
 length of time it takes to
 
 00:11:51.956 --> 00:11:55.158
 transmit messages can have,
 
 00:11:55.698 --> 00:11:56.500
 the effect that that can
 
 00:11:56.539 --> 00:11:59.142
 have on the way that these
 
 00:11:59.182 --> 00:12:00.802
 relationships can or cannot
 
 00:12:01.263 --> 00:12:03.004
 establish themselves productively.
 
 00:12:03.144 --> 00:12:05.466
 So certainly there's
 
 00:12:05.485 --> 00:12:06.206
 frustration in
 
 00:12:06.245 --> 00:12:06.886
 transatlantic
 
 00:12:06.907 --> 00:12:08.467
 correspondence when the
 
 00:12:08.528 --> 00:12:09.629
 orders from London are
 
 00:12:09.668 --> 00:12:11.370
 taking six weeks to get there.
 
 00:12:11.509 --> 00:12:11.590
 Yeah.
 
 00:12:12.472 --> 00:12:13.855
 The one thing I would like to mention,
 
 00:12:13.894 --> 00:12:14.154
 though,
 
 00:12:14.235 --> 00:12:16.097
 I had mentioned just a few collections,
 
 00:12:16.638 --> 00:12:18.320
 just the scope of the
 
 00:12:18.340 --> 00:12:19.240
 Revolutionary War
 
 00:12:19.280 --> 00:12:20.802
 collections are much broader.
 
 00:12:21.082 --> 00:12:22.004
 And without going into
 
 00:12:22.043 --> 00:12:23.866
 details of the names of the collections,
 
 00:12:23.907 --> 00:12:25.989
 I wanted to make sure that, you know,
 
 00:12:26.028 --> 00:12:27.431
 listeners also know that we
 
 00:12:28.988 --> 00:12:29.168
 You know,
 
 00:12:29.207 --> 00:12:32.250
 we have also materials from the
 
 00:12:32.410 --> 00:12:34.192
 American revolutionaries
 
 00:12:34.231 --> 00:12:35.312
 and French allies.
 
 00:12:35.373 --> 00:12:37.293
 We have military collections.
 
 00:12:37.333 --> 00:12:38.956
 We also have papers on
 
 00:12:39.076 --> 00:12:41.738
 politics and diplomacy and finance.
 
 00:12:42.457 --> 00:12:43.999
 We have mercantile papers
 
 00:12:44.099 --> 00:12:45.701
 from merchants that are
 
 00:12:45.740 --> 00:12:48.802
 both contracted and folks
 
 00:12:48.822 --> 00:12:49.724
 just trying to operate
 
 00:12:49.744 --> 00:12:51.365
 their businesses during wartime.
 
 00:12:55.051 --> 00:12:56.932
 And my, perhaps the,
 
 00:12:57.033 --> 00:12:58.333
 and plenty from Loyalists
 
 00:12:59.014 --> 00:13:00.895
 as well as Loyalists to the
 
 00:13:00.916 --> 00:13:04.178
 Crown and Collins as well.
 
 00:13:04.198 --> 00:13:06.221
 So just make sure that I mention that.
 
 00:13:06.841 --> 00:13:10.524
 It really gives you a perspective on the,
 
 00:13:10.544 --> 00:13:10.705
 I mean,
 
 00:13:10.725 --> 00:13:11.645
 you mentioned three different
 
 00:13:11.686 --> 00:13:13.988
 languages that you have collections in,
 
 00:13:14.008 --> 00:13:15.870
 and I suspect there are more than French,
 
 00:13:15.950 --> 00:13:17.311
 German, and English.
 
 00:13:17.551 --> 00:13:19.572
 And I'm wondering about,
 
 00:13:20.475 --> 00:13:21.676
 Any Native American
 
 00:13:21.716 --> 00:13:22.897
 perspectives or other
 
 00:13:22.956 --> 00:13:24.397
 underrepresented voices you
 
 00:13:24.437 --> 00:13:26.417
 may find in these various collections?
 
 00:13:27.057 --> 00:13:28.457
 Women, prisoners of war.
 
 00:13:31.138 --> 00:13:33.119
 I would just say that one of
 
 00:13:33.158 --> 00:13:34.698
 the most exciting things
 
 00:13:34.839 --> 00:13:36.158
 that we see in how our
 
 00:13:36.178 --> 00:13:36.979
 collections get used,
 
 00:13:37.019 --> 00:13:39.000
 and I think a trend that I
 
 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:40.419
 see also more broadly in
 
 00:13:40.500 --> 00:13:44.140
 the scholarship on the period in general,
 
 00:13:44.341 --> 00:13:46.441
 is that people are using
 
 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:48.302
 collections like Gage and
 
 00:13:48.361 --> 00:13:49.461
 Clinton intermade.
 
 00:13:51.538 --> 00:13:52.999
 to research precisely those
 
 00:13:53.058 --> 00:13:55.841
 perspectives that, you know,
 
 00:13:56.100 --> 00:13:57.100
 people who've been using
 
 00:13:57.140 --> 00:13:59.143
 those collections for the
 
 00:13:59.182 --> 00:14:01.543
 last hundred years weren't looking for.
 
 00:14:01.563 --> 00:14:03.085
 And so these collections are
 
 00:14:03.125 --> 00:14:04.865
 incredibly rich resources
 
 00:14:05.145 --> 00:14:06.907
 for women's history,
 
 00:14:07.047 --> 00:14:08.067
 African American history,
 
 00:14:08.107 --> 00:14:09.229
 Native American history,
 
 00:14:10.269 --> 00:14:12.171
 precisely because they were in,
 
 00:14:12.211 --> 00:14:14.751
 these people were involved in everything.
 
 00:14:14.871 --> 00:14:15.852
 So, you know,
 
 00:14:15.873 --> 00:14:17.214
 Chaney can talk a bit more
 
 00:14:17.254 --> 00:14:19.075
 specifically about how those voices
 
 00:14:19.658 --> 00:14:21.681
 either appear or don't in
 
 00:14:21.740 --> 00:14:22.522
 these collections.
 
 00:14:23.842 --> 00:14:27.245
 But the fact that these
 
 00:14:27.485 --> 00:14:30.129
 these people just had so
 
 00:14:30.149 --> 00:14:31.629
 many connections to everything.
 
 00:14:32.850 --> 00:14:35.193
 One of the we have a
 
 00:14:35.214 --> 00:14:37.576
 research fellow here now and she's
 
 00:14:38.846 --> 00:14:39.787
 one of a sort of large
 
 00:14:39.826 --> 00:14:41.248
 number of researchers we've
 
 00:14:41.288 --> 00:14:42.208
 had in the last couple of
 
 00:14:42.229 --> 00:14:44.870
 years who are doing work on
 
 00:14:45.671 --> 00:14:46.972
 Native American people in the South.
 
 00:14:47.393 --> 00:14:49.894
 And in particular,
 
 00:14:52.697 --> 00:14:53.738
 she's working on the Cherokee,
 
 00:14:53.778 --> 00:14:55.099
 but we've had a lot of people here
 
 00:14:55.557 --> 00:14:56.357
 doing research on the
 
 00:14:56.398 --> 00:14:57.499
 Cherokee and Choctaw and
 
 00:14:57.519 --> 00:14:58.479
 the Chickasaw and their
 
 00:14:58.619 --> 00:15:01.240
 relations with the
 
 00:15:01.259 --> 00:15:02.721
 different empires that they
 
 00:15:02.801 --> 00:15:04.041
 came in contact with in the
 
 00:15:04.501 --> 00:15:05.902
 second half of the eighteenth century.
 
 00:15:06.721 --> 00:15:07.743
 And these collections,
 
 00:15:07.763 --> 00:15:09.823
 which are as traditional
 
 00:15:09.984 --> 00:15:12.365
 and you could say elite as they get,
 
 00:15:13.325 --> 00:15:15.306
 are tremendous resources
 
 00:15:15.485 --> 00:15:17.287
 for finding some of those
 
 00:15:17.346 --> 00:15:18.326
 underrepresented voices.
 
 00:15:19.133 --> 00:15:20.732
 So it's not just using, say,
 
 00:15:20.753 --> 00:15:21.974
 the Gage papers to learn
 
 00:15:22.014 --> 00:15:23.134
 about Thomas Gage,
 
 00:15:23.274 --> 00:15:24.474
 but you have all of these
 
 00:15:24.514 --> 00:15:26.394
 connections between Gage and others.
 
 00:15:26.434 --> 00:15:27.674
 And Clinton certainly is
 
 00:15:27.715 --> 00:15:29.416
 thinking about the Southern campaign.
 
 00:15:29.436 --> 00:15:30.696
 He's thinking about this in
 
 00:15:30.716 --> 00:15:31.475
 a way different from the
 
 00:15:31.515 --> 00:15:32.437
 way we think about it,
 
 00:15:32.456 --> 00:15:34.177
 because the Cherokee are
 
 00:15:34.216 --> 00:15:35.216
 also at war with South
 
 00:15:35.256 --> 00:15:36.437
 Carolina and they're allies
 
 00:15:36.498 --> 00:15:37.018
 of the British.
 
 00:15:37.038 --> 00:15:39.658
 So you get this different lens.
 
 00:15:39.938 --> 00:15:41.578
 And mining these collections,
 
 00:15:41.599 --> 00:15:43.438
 it really is a fascinating
 
 00:15:43.479 --> 00:15:44.840
 development and scholarship.
 
 00:15:48.225 --> 00:15:49.767
 Yeah, and, you know,
 
 00:15:49.787 --> 00:15:53.690
 a few examples of places where
 
 00:15:55.345 --> 00:15:57.527
 where African Americans, for example,
 
 00:15:58.366 --> 00:15:59.889
 appear in the records are
 
 00:15:59.969 --> 00:16:02.431
 in your general military returns,
 
 00:16:02.471 --> 00:16:05.273
 a type of paperwork that's
 
 00:16:05.293 --> 00:16:06.394
 just reporting on the
 
 00:16:06.453 --> 00:16:09.015
 status of different units in the army.
 
 00:16:09.635 --> 00:16:12.357
 But you'll find, for example,
 
 00:16:12.499 --> 00:16:15.120
 the black pioneers who
 
 00:16:16.061 --> 00:16:17.923
 served in the British army
 
 00:16:18.523 --> 00:16:19.964
 You'll find a letter from
 
 00:16:20.043 --> 00:16:21.605
 Murphy Steele in the collection,
 
 00:16:21.664 --> 00:16:22.926
 so directly from the voice
 
 00:16:22.946 --> 00:16:25.826
 of a person who's experiencing events.
 
 00:16:26.248 --> 00:16:28.469
 You'll find more often than
 
 00:16:28.528 --> 00:16:32.331
 not those single lines in
 
 00:16:32.410 --> 00:16:36.013
 documents that once the thread's pulled,
 
 00:16:36.714 --> 00:16:38.914
 you find you can start to
 
 00:16:38.995 --> 00:16:40.655
 tell stories that you
 
 00:16:40.676 --> 00:16:44.077
 wouldn't have known existed previously.
 
 00:16:44.841 --> 00:16:46.241
 And certainly the
 
 00:16:46.442 --> 00:16:47.423
 interactions between the
 
 00:16:47.442 --> 00:16:49.985
 British and indigenous populations are,
 
 00:16:51.787 --> 00:16:52.868
 the papers are certainly
 
 00:16:52.947 --> 00:16:54.688
 filled with all manner of
 
 00:16:54.749 --> 00:16:56.230
 communications and council
 
 00:16:56.269 --> 00:16:57.211
 meetings and other
 
 00:16:57.731 --> 00:16:59.613
 interactions with the
 
 00:16:59.673 --> 00:17:04.116
 native populations from, you know,
 
 00:17:04.156 --> 00:17:05.298
 Michilimackinac to
 
 00:17:06.034 --> 00:17:07.835
 you know, to the eastern seaboard.
 
 00:17:08.234 --> 00:17:08.454
 Wow.
 
 00:17:08.755 --> 00:17:09.694
 It's amazing.
 
 00:17:09.714 --> 00:17:09.835
 Now,
 
 00:17:09.875 --> 00:17:12.115
 do you have to be a student at the
 
 00:17:12.155 --> 00:17:13.635
 University of Michigan or
 
 00:17:13.715 --> 00:17:15.977
 an academic to use the Clements Library?
 
 00:17:15.997 --> 00:17:16.876
 Can you tell us a bit about
 
 00:17:16.936 --> 00:17:19.738
 how someone would access the collections?
 
 00:17:20.637 --> 00:17:20.978
 Sure.
 
 00:17:21.157 --> 00:17:23.598
 We are part of a public university,
 
 00:17:23.638 --> 00:17:24.858
 so we are open to the public,
 
 00:17:25.618 --> 00:17:26.400
 which is one of the great
 
 00:17:26.420 --> 00:17:27.359
 things about being at the
 
 00:17:27.380 --> 00:17:28.099
 Clements Library.
 
 00:17:28.140 --> 00:17:30.421
 So anybody who has a project
 
 00:17:30.500 --> 00:17:32.361
 that would make use of the
 
 00:17:32.381 --> 00:17:33.240
 collections can make an
 
 00:17:33.260 --> 00:17:35.082
 appointment and come do research here.
 
 00:17:35.963 --> 00:17:38.026
 We're open Monday through Friday,
 
 00:17:38.986 --> 00:17:39.747
 nine to four thirty,
 
 00:17:39.866 --> 00:17:41.928
 except Thursdays we open at ten.
 
 00:17:42.548 --> 00:17:45.750
 And we certainly, you know,
 
 00:17:45.851 --> 00:17:46.711
 we're delighted that
 
 00:17:46.811 --> 00:17:48.333
 students and faculty at the
 
 00:17:48.373 --> 00:17:49.394
 University of Michigan use
 
 00:17:49.493 --> 00:17:50.015
 the collection.
 
 00:17:50.954 --> 00:17:51.816
 That's why we're on the
 
 00:17:51.855 --> 00:17:53.656
 campus of the university to
 
 00:17:53.696 --> 00:17:55.439
 be a resource for students and faculty.
 
 00:17:55.479 --> 00:17:56.720
 But anybody,
 
 00:17:57.160 --> 00:17:58.621
 anybody can make use of the collections.
 
 00:18:00.241 --> 00:18:01.982
 And you've been digitizing things as well.
 
 00:18:02.003 --> 00:18:02.864
 Can you talk a little bit
 
 00:18:02.884 --> 00:18:03.765
 about that process?
 
 00:18:04.178 --> 00:18:04.998
 Sure, we have.
 
 00:18:06.859 --> 00:18:10.280
 So digitization is a crucial
 
 00:18:10.320 --> 00:18:11.902
 element of every library's
 
 00:18:11.922 --> 00:18:13.363
 work these days to make
 
 00:18:13.383 --> 00:18:14.624
 their collections more accessible,
 
 00:18:16.845 --> 00:18:18.165
 both to scholars who are
 
 00:18:18.205 --> 00:18:19.846
 doing different types of history,
 
 00:18:19.946 --> 00:18:21.768
 digital history, as well as people who,
 
 00:18:22.667 --> 00:18:23.669
 for a variety of reasons,
 
 00:18:23.689 --> 00:18:24.769
 aren't able to travel to
 
 00:18:24.809 --> 00:18:26.490
 visit libraries and archives.
 
 00:18:27.611 --> 00:18:28.951
 And we have taken the
 
 00:18:28.971 --> 00:18:31.053
 approach of digitizing
 
 00:18:33.496 --> 00:18:35.415
 kind of sort of our highest priority,
 
 00:18:35.476 --> 00:18:37.676
 most used collections first.
 
 00:18:37.797 --> 00:18:40.336
 And we've been lucky to get
 
 00:18:40.376 --> 00:18:41.116
 a grant from the National
 
 00:18:41.136 --> 00:18:41.537
 Endowment for the
 
 00:18:41.557 --> 00:18:42.718
 Humanities to help us
 
 00:18:42.758 --> 00:18:44.557
 digitize the Gage papers,
 
 00:18:46.218 --> 00:18:47.479
 which is work that Cheney
 
 00:18:47.499 --> 00:18:48.419
 has been leading along with
 
 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:50.019
 our digital projects librarian,
 
 00:18:50.659 --> 00:18:51.318
 Emmy Hastings.
 
 00:18:52.098 --> 00:18:53.059
 So Cheney can talk a bit
 
 00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:54.680
 more about the digitization
 
 00:18:54.700 --> 00:18:55.859
 of Gage and how that's
 
 00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:58.280
 working and what it's going
 
 00:18:58.320 --> 00:19:00.820
 to permit scholars to do with the papers.
 
 00:19:06.133 --> 00:19:07.192
 Over the course of the last
 
 00:19:07.513 --> 00:19:08.334
 couple of years,
 
 00:19:09.214 --> 00:19:10.055
 thanks to the National
 
 00:19:10.075 --> 00:19:11.415
 Endowment for the Humanities,
 
 00:19:11.875 --> 00:19:12.896
 we were able to hire
 
 00:19:13.096 --> 00:19:15.057
 digitization technicians to
 
 00:19:15.438 --> 00:19:16.999
 begin at the beginning of
 
 00:19:17.380 --> 00:19:18.599
 the Thomas Gage papers,
 
 00:19:19.881 --> 00:19:21.162
 scan the materials,
 
 00:19:22.001 --> 00:19:23.262
 crop them appropriately,
 
 00:19:23.323 --> 00:19:24.304
 color correct them,
 
 00:19:25.064 --> 00:19:27.486
 and create item-level metadata.
 
 00:19:28.380 --> 00:19:30.361
 which is currently the last
 
 00:19:30.740 --> 00:19:34.042
 work in process for making
 
 00:19:34.063 --> 00:19:36.824
 those materials accessible.
 
 00:19:37.104 --> 00:19:39.265
 You will find the first, you know,
 
 00:19:39.285 --> 00:19:41.645
 the English series of the Gage papers,
 
 00:19:41.685 --> 00:19:42.446
 the transatlantic
 
 00:19:42.487 --> 00:19:43.747
 correspondence primarily.
 
 00:19:45.127 --> 00:19:46.288
 The first thirty volumes of
 
 00:19:46.308 --> 00:19:47.689
 the papers are live and
 
 00:19:47.709 --> 00:19:50.611
 have been available for access online.
 
 00:19:51.550 --> 00:19:53.592
 And we are in the last
 
 00:19:53.612 --> 00:19:55.313
 stages of getting the next group,
 
 00:19:55.353 --> 00:19:56.512
 which is the first big
 
 00:19:56.573 --> 00:19:58.354
 bundle of the American series.
 
 00:19:59.414 --> 00:20:00.855
 They're chronologically arranged.
 
 00:20:00.976 --> 00:20:04.336
 So it's the Seven Years' War
 
 00:20:04.396 --> 00:20:05.198
 period mostly.
 
 00:20:07.278 --> 00:20:10.119
 But the aim is to get up
 
 00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:11.681
 through Lexington and
 
 00:20:11.740 --> 00:20:15.382
 Concord as soon as we can
 
 00:20:15.422 --> 00:20:16.742
 since the two hundred and
 
 00:20:16.782 --> 00:20:19.523
 fiftieth is coming up very soon.
 
 00:20:21.916 --> 00:20:23.137
 But the goal is to make
 
 00:20:23.178 --> 00:20:24.739
 those materials accessible
 
 00:20:24.898 --> 00:20:26.959
 to the widest possible audience.
 
 00:20:28.420 --> 00:20:31.401
 And the sorts of research
 
 00:20:31.441 --> 00:20:33.261
 that can be done digitally
 
 00:20:35.063 --> 00:20:37.044
 with the metadata that's provided,
 
 00:20:37.624 --> 00:20:38.684
 which includes, you know,
 
 00:20:39.684 --> 00:20:43.108
 the date something's created and received,
 
 00:20:44.590 --> 00:20:47.034
 the sorts of larger picture
 
 00:20:47.575 --> 00:20:48.896
 looks at the collection and
 
 00:20:48.936 --> 00:20:50.198
 how the materials relate to
 
 00:20:50.298 --> 00:20:51.319
 one another is something
 
 00:20:51.339 --> 00:20:52.681
 that we look forward to
 
 00:20:52.721 --> 00:20:54.644
 seeing what scholars can do with.
 
 00:20:56.141 --> 00:20:58.481
 Back in the early days of digitization,
 
 00:20:58.521 --> 00:20:59.363
 I know there was some,
 
 00:20:59.863 --> 00:21:00.804
 I heard some discussion
 
 00:21:00.844 --> 00:21:02.724
 among research libraries.
 
 00:21:02.904 --> 00:21:04.425
 If everything is available online,
 
 00:21:04.465 --> 00:21:05.826
 why will people come here?
 
 00:21:06.227 --> 00:21:06.366
 Now,
 
 00:21:06.386 --> 00:21:09.028
 have you found a decline in usage of
 
 00:21:09.067 --> 00:21:10.269
 the library since things
 
 00:21:10.288 --> 00:21:11.150
 have been digitized?
 
 00:21:12.609 --> 00:21:14.411
 So my experience has been
 
 00:21:14.490 --> 00:21:15.872
 exactly the opposite.
 
 00:21:16.593 --> 00:21:17.032
 First of all,
 
 00:21:17.393 --> 00:21:18.413
 no library is ever going to
 
 00:21:18.433 --> 00:21:19.753
 be able to digitize everything.
 
 00:21:20.674 --> 00:21:21.955
 People always ask when they
 
 00:21:21.976 --> 00:21:23.696
 visit what percentage of
 
 00:21:23.997 --> 00:21:25.938
 our collection has been digitized and
 
 00:21:27.594 --> 00:21:30.957
 it's less than ten, significantly less.
 
 00:21:31.916 --> 00:21:32.978
 We'll never digitize
 
 00:21:32.998 --> 00:21:33.778
 everything that we have.
 
 00:21:35.861 --> 00:21:39.983
 So I'm not worried about that so much.
 
 00:21:40.084 --> 00:21:41.144
 And my experience has been
 
 00:21:41.164 --> 00:21:43.486
 that the more materials get digitized,
 
 00:21:43.866 --> 00:21:44.968
 it actually drives more
 
 00:21:44.988 --> 00:21:45.928
 attendance to the library
 
 00:21:45.948 --> 00:21:48.589
 because things are more discoverable.
 
 00:21:48.830 --> 00:21:50.372
 So people can
 
 00:21:51.953 --> 00:21:52.914
 People search online,
 
 00:21:53.414 --> 00:21:55.737
 they find out that one
 
 00:21:55.757 --> 00:21:56.958
 collection is digitized and
 
 00:21:56.978 --> 00:21:58.038
 then they do more research
 
 00:21:58.078 --> 00:21:59.119
 into what's at the library
 
 00:21:59.140 --> 00:21:59.980
 and they realize they need
 
 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:00.980
 to come visit in person.
 
 00:22:02.982 --> 00:22:06.746
 So I don't think we're ever
 
 00:22:06.766 --> 00:22:08.106
 gonna be at a point where
 
 00:22:08.967 --> 00:22:10.008
 nobody will need to come
 
 00:22:10.048 --> 00:22:10.989
 visit a place like the
 
 00:22:11.028 --> 00:22:12.349
 Clements because
 
 00:22:12.390 --> 00:22:14.230
 everything's available on their screen.
 
 00:22:16.032 --> 00:22:18.755
 But even if we were somehow
 
 00:22:18.795 --> 00:22:20.556
 magically able to digitize everything,
 
 00:22:22.113 --> 00:22:23.855
 It doesn't replicate the
 
 00:22:23.914 --> 00:22:25.256
 experience of being here,
 
 00:22:26.076 --> 00:22:27.337
 mainly because you would
 
 00:22:27.397 --> 00:22:28.377
 not have the experience of
 
 00:22:28.459 --> 00:22:29.660
 interacting with staff who
 
 00:22:29.700 --> 00:22:31.020
 know the collections deeply
 
 00:22:31.141 --> 00:22:32.741
 and are aware of
 
 00:22:33.323 --> 00:22:34.223
 connections between
 
 00:22:34.243 --> 00:22:35.044
 different items in the
 
 00:22:35.064 --> 00:22:38.386
 collection that you can't
 
 00:22:38.426 --> 00:22:39.688
 necessarily put in metadata.
 
 00:22:40.088 --> 00:22:41.809
 But if you're here and can talk to people,
 
 00:22:42.830 --> 00:22:43.751
 you can get sent in those
 
 00:22:43.791 --> 00:22:45.012
 productive research directions.
 
 00:22:48.444 --> 00:22:48.545
 Right.
 
 00:22:48.565 --> 00:22:50.165
 We're talking with Chani Chopinet,
 
 00:22:50.286 --> 00:22:52.027
 Chopinet from the Clements Library,
 
 00:22:52.047 --> 00:22:53.386
 the curator of manuscripts,
 
 00:22:53.426 --> 00:22:54.327
 and Paul Erickson,
 
 00:22:54.347 --> 00:22:55.327
 the director of the
 
 00:22:55.367 --> 00:22:57.568
 Clements Library in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
 
 00:22:58.088 --> 00:22:59.150
 Tremendous collections on
 
 00:22:59.190 --> 00:23:00.569
 the Revolutionary War as
 
 00:23:00.630 --> 00:23:02.191
 well as other things.
 
 00:23:02.770 --> 00:23:03.832
 And you mentioned you have
 
 00:23:03.852 --> 00:23:04.852
 about thirty fellows.
 
 00:23:04.892 --> 00:23:06.732
 Can you tell us a bit about, you know,
 
 00:23:06.932 --> 00:23:08.794
 what the fellowship program is and how,
 
 00:23:08.993 --> 00:23:11.394
 say, a scholar, a graduate student,
 
 00:23:11.994 --> 00:23:13.796
 or a professor might want to
 
 00:23:14.756 --> 00:23:15.537
 have access to the
 
 00:23:15.557 --> 00:23:17.681
 collections for an extended period?
 
 00:23:17.721 --> 00:23:18.020
 Sure.
 
 00:23:18.761 --> 00:23:18.903
 Well,
 
 00:23:18.923 --> 00:23:20.484
 those people who want to have access
 
 00:23:20.505 --> 00:23:21.266
 to the collections through
 
 00:23:21.286 --> 00:23:22.107
 our fellowship program
 
 00:23:22.127 --> 00:23:23.169
 should get busy because our
 
 00:23:23.209 --> 00:23:24.550
 deadline is January fifteenth.
 
 00:23:24.570 --> 00:23:26.535
 Okay.
 
 00:23:26.595 --> 00:23:29.638
 So we give, as I said, we give
 
 00:23:31.084 --> 00:23:31.824
 about thirty research
 
 00:23:31.845 --> 00:23:33.265
 fellowships every year for
 
 00:23:33.325 --> 00:23:34.746
 periods ranging from a week
 
 00:23:35.186 --> 00:23:35.866
 to a semester.
 
 00:23:37.448 --> 00:23:39.328
 And some of them are thematic in nature.
 
 00:23:39.388 --> 00:23:41.050
 So we have fellowships that
 
 00:23:41.070 --> 00:23:42.070
 are specifically for the
 
 00:23:42.090 --> 00:23:43.451
 study of Native American history,
 
 00:23:44.252 --> 00:23:45.012
 for the study of history of
 
 00:23:45.032 --> 00:23:45.753
 the Great Lakes,
 
 00:23:47.054 --> 00:23:48.355
 for the history of the Atlantic world,
 
 00:23:48.375 --> 00:23:49.915
 and others are sort of more
 
 00:23:49.976 --> 00:23:51.678
 general in nature.
 
 00:23:52.917 --> 00:23:53.519
 But we have
 
 00:23:54.760 --> 00:23:55.861
 everybody from
 
 00:23:56.101 --> 00:23:57.821
 undergraduates to senior
 
 00:23:57.862 --> 00:23:59.482
 faculty applying for
 
 00:23:59.502 --> 00:24:00.782
 fellowships to come spend
 
 00:24:00.823 --> 00:24:02.804
 time at the Clements and
 
 00:24:02.824 --> 00:24:03.864
 make use of the collections.
 
 00:24:05.424 --> 00:24:05.964
 In particular,
 
 00:24:06.005 --> 00:24:07.785
 we're excited about a couple
 
 00:24:07.825 --> 00:24:09.046
 new fellowships we have
 
 00:24:10.625 --> 00:24:13.047
 that are designed to bring
 
 00:24:13.067 --> 00:24:15.488
 people in to use our visual collections,
 
 00:24:17.028 --> 00:24:19.528
 ephemera and graphic arts
 
 00:24:19.568 --> 00:24:20.750
 and photography in particular.
 
 00:24:22.346 --> 00:24:23.666
 Those are collections that
 
 00:24:23.946 --> 00:24:25.307
 just because of their nature,
 
 00:24:25.387 --> 00:24:27.669
 we have large numbers of
 
 00:24:27.769 --> 00:24:29.969
 items are difficult to digitize.
 
 00:24:30.108 --> 00:24:31.609
 And so if you want to use
 
 00:24:31.630 --> 00:24:32.430
 collections like that,
 
 00:24:32.849 --> 00:24:33.829
 you really need to visit a
 
 00:24:33.849 --> 00:24:34.651
 library in person.
 
 00:24:34.830 --> 00:24:36.111
 And so we're excited to see
 
 00:24:36.131 --> 00:24:37.111
 what people are able to do
 
 00:24:37.151 --> 00:24:41.112
 with those opportunities.
 
 00:24:41.152 --> 00:24:41.471
 I wonder,
 
 00:24:43.252 --> 00:24:44.752
 can you talk a little bit of the
 
 00:24:44.772 --> 00:24:45.673
 Lexington and Concord
 
 00:24:45.693 --> 00:24:46.733
 exhibit that you're working on?
 
 00:24:47.631 --> 00:24:48.490
 Sure.
 
 00:24:48.872 --> 00:24:49.731
 Chaney can talk about that
 
 00:24:49.811 --> 00:24:54.134
 as he is deeply enmeshed in it right now.
 
 00:24:54.153 --> 00:24:54.414
 Yes.
 
 00:24:57.664 --> 00:24:59.345
 an exhibit that's going to
 
 00:24:59.385 --> 00:25:01.286
 be physically at the
 
 00:25:01.326 --> 00:25:04.007
 Clements Library that's
 
 00:25:04.386 --> 00:25:06.508
 expected to open on the on the eighteenth,
 
 00:25:06.607 --> 00:25:08.407
 which is a Friday of April
 
 00:25:08.807 --> 00:25:10.769
 of twenty twenty five.
 
 00:25:12.189 --> 00:25:13.048
 And, you know,
 
 00:25:13.108 --> 00:25:14.329
 one of the one of the goals
 
 00:25:14.390 --> 00:25:16.190
 that that I have with it,
 
 00:25:16.250 --> 00:25:17.089
 because there's certainly
 
 00:25:17.130 --> 00:25:18.631
 other institutions, definitely.
 
 00:25:19.070 --> 00:25:20.391
 definitely in Massachusetts,
 
 00:25:20.652 --> 00:25:23.132
 that are creating exhibits
 
 00:25:23.172 --> 00:25:24.432
 that also revolve around
 
 00:25:24.472 --> 00:25:27.114
 this first sort of engagement,
 
 00:25:27.493 --> 00:25:30.555
 this first engagement
 
 00:25:30.575 --> 00:25:32.434
 between the colonists and
 
 00:25:33.236 --> 00:25:35.556
 the British establishment.
 
 00:25:37.297 --> 00:25:38.196
 What I wanted to do with
 
 00:25:38.217 --> 00:25:39.798
 this exhibit is focus on
 
 00:25:40.077 --> 00:25:42.858
 materials that can't really be seen
 
 00:25:43.479 --> 00:25:44.019
 elsewhere.
 
 00:25:44.339 --> 00:25:47.881
 So, for example, you know,
 
 00:25:47.901 --> 00:25:50.782
 Thomas Gage's draft orders
 
 00:25:51.482 --> 00:25:52.344
 to Lieutenant Colonel
 
 00:25:52.364 --> 00:25:55.125
 Francis Smith on the April
 
 00:25:55.445 --> 00:26:00.607
 eighteenth of seventeen
 
 00:26:00.647 --> 00:26:02.750
 seventy-five ordering the
 
 00:26:02.809 --> 00:26:04.871
 Concord Expedition are part
 
 00:26:04.911 --> 00:26:06.592
 of Gage's papers.
 
 00:26:07.432 --> 00:26:08.813
 Also earlier,
 
 00:26:09.032 --> 00:26:13.015
 Gage's copies in February of
 
 00:26:14.395 --> 00:26:15.457
 the formal statement from
 
 00:26:15.497 --> 00:26:16.517
 the British government that
 
 00:26:16.537 --> 00:26:18.077
 Massachusetts is in rebellion,
 
 00:26:18.317 --> 00:26:23.000
 the secret manuscript from
 
 00:26:23.760 --> 00:26:25.862
 the Earl of Dartmouth to
 
 00:26:26.021 --> 00:26:29.964
 Gage authorizing martial law or force,
 
 00:26:29.984 --> 00:26:30.904
 if appropriate.
 
 00:26:31.445 --> 00:26:32.586
 So you have that physical
 
 00:26:32.625 --> 00:26:35.548
 document that triggers all of this.
 
 00:26:36.655 --> 00:26:39.138
 yeah um we have you know
 
 00:26:39.219 --> 00:26:41.141
 intelligence on the alarms
 
 00:26:41.340 --> 00:26:43.423
 and um orderly books in
 
 00:26:43.462 --> 00:26:45.025
 which they're detaching the
 
 00:26:45.045 --> 00:26:46.185
 grenadiers and light
 
 00:26:46.246 --> 00:26:48.087
 infantry from units to
 
 00:26:48.208 --> 00:26:51.250
 march west um there are
 
 00:26:51.632 --> 00:26:53.253
 percy's report of the
 
 00:26:53.294 --> 00:26:54.894
 reinforcement troops all of
 
 00:26:54.914 --> 00:26:56.616
 those are part of um of
 
 00:26:56.676 --> 00:26:58.179
 gage's papers as and
 
 00:26:59.740 --> 00:27:03.300
 as well as secret papers
 
 00:27:03.340 --> 00:27:04.540
 that were commandeered by
 
 00:27:05.561 --> 00:27:07.163
 Dr. Benjamin Church and
 
 00:27:07.563 --> 00:27:08.623
 delivered from him,
 
 00:27:08.722 --> 00:27:13.345
 thought to be on the
 
 00:27:13.384 --> 00:27:16.486
 rebellious side of the conflict,
 
 00:27:16.546 --> 00:27:17.507
 but turned out he was
 
 00:27:17.547 --> 00:27:19.207
 turning over materials to Gage,
 
 00:27:19.248 --> 00:27:20.788
 and so bundles of those
 
 00:27:20.867 --> 00:27:23.249
 from the eighteenth through
 
 00:27:23.929 --> 00:27:24.769
 the twenty-second.
 
 00:27:25.990 --> 00:27:27.031
 And that includes a letter
 
 00:27:27.051 --> 00:27:28.512
 from Rachel Revere to Paul
 
 00:27:28.573 --> 00:27:32.317
 Revere immediately after
 
 00:27:32.376 --> 00:27:34.398
 warning him not to come back to Boston.
 
 00:27:35.058 --> 00:27:38.942
 What about the myth that
 
 00:27:39.022 --> 00:27:40.124
 Margaret Campbell Gage
 
 00:27:40.183 --> 00:27:42.707
 might have been tipping off the Patriots?
 
 00:27:43.567 --> 00:27:44.648
 Can you say anything about that?
 
 00:27:46.464 --> 00:27:53.509
 I prefer to let the historians discuss it.
 
 00:27:55.131 --> 00:27:56.813
 I usually say there's not
 
 00:27:56.873 --> 00:27:58.114
 evidence in the Gage Papers
 
 00:27:58.153 --> 00:28:01.375
 to support that claim.
 
 00:28:02.204 --> 00:28:03.605
 By the way, David Heckett Fisher said,
 
 00:28:03.644 --> 00:28:04.705
 don't mention this if
 
 00:28:04.726 --> 00:28:07.246
 you're at the Gage estate in England,
 
 00:28:07.506 --> 00:28:08.727
 that she might have been
 
 00:28:08.767 --> 00:28:09.567
 tipping them off because
 
 00:28:09.586 --> 00:28:11.227
 they take it very seriously.
 
 00:28:11.267 --> 00:28:13.127
 And don't take the point of
 
 00:28:13.167 --> 00:28:15.028
 view that she was tipping off anyone.
 
 00:28:15.088 --> 00:28:16.469
 But it's good to know the
 
 00:28:16.528 --> 00:28:17.528
 evidence in the papers
 
 00:28:17.588 --> 00:28:18.670
 doesn't support that.
 
 00:28:18.690 --> 00:28:19.509
 It doesn't point to that.
 
 00:28:19.630 --> 00:28:22.871
 Yeah, and it's a good point.
 
 00:28:24.010 --> 00:28:24.971
 We try and maintain
 
 00:28:26.071 --> 00:28:29.071
 relationships with descendants of persons,
 
 00:28:29.092 --> 00:28:29.732
 and that includes
 
 00:28:31.892 --> 00:28:33.292
 you know, the Gage family.
 
 00:28:33.952 --> 00:28:36.694
 And so before our exhibit opens,
 
 00:28:36.755 --> 00:28:38.236
 we will have an event at
 
 00:28:38.296 --> 00:28:39.876
 which Deborah Gage will be
 
 00:28:39.916 --> 00:28:41.096
 coming to give a talk.
 
 00:28:41.217 --> 00:28:44.960
 And I have to make sure the
 
 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:45.619
 schedule's right,
 
 00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:47.520
 but that's in early April
 
 00:28:47.580 --> 00:28:48.942
 before those events.
 
 00:28:50.123 --> 00:28:51.563
 It's amazing what you have,
 
 00:28:51.603 --> 00:28:53.684
 the story that you can tell from that,
 
 00:28:53.724 --> 00:28:54.865
 the perspective you get
 
 00:28:54.924 --> 00:28:56.665
 from the documents you have
 
 00:28:56.705 --> 00:28:57.826
 in the Clements Library.
 
 00:29:01.114 --> 00:29:01.513
 And more.
 
 00:29:01.634 --> 00:29:04.035
 And I intend to, as you can tell,
 
 00:29:04.075 --> 00:29:05.476
 the final selection hasn't
 
 00:29:05.496 --> 00:29:06.856
 been made for this exhibit,
 
 00:29:06.957 --> 00:29:08.397
 but I intend to end with
 
 00:29:08.458 --> 00:29:10.839
 the declaration of tough
 
 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:15.002
 martial law in early June.
 
 00:29:15.022 --> 00:29:16.262
 That's tremendous.
 
 00:29:20.046 --> 00:29:21.326
 And that's also going to be
 
 00:29:21.366 --> 00:29:22.606
 the basis of an online
 
 00:29:22.666 --> 00:29:23.807
 exhibit that will cover the
 
 00:29:23.847 --> 00:29:25.088
 entire siege of Boston.
 
 00:29:25.108 --> 00:29:25.429
 Oh, yes.
 
 00:29:25.648 --> 00:29:26.089
 Yeah.
 
 00:29:27.648 --> 00:29:28.670
 All of our exhibits that go
 
 00:29:28.710 --> 00:29:30.771
 up in the reading room now
 
 00:29:30.832 --> 00:29:32.073
 have an online component as well,
 
 00:29:32.373 --> 00:29:35.715
 so even after an exhibit comes down.
 
 00:29:35.756 --> 00:29:36.938
 You mentioned our exhibit on
 
 00:29:37.038 --> 00:29:38.419
 arts and resistance earlier.
 
 00:29:40.161 --> 00:29:41.342
 That exhibit was up last year,
 
 00:29:41.362 --> 00:29:42.282
 but folks can still go
 
 00:29:42.323 --> 00:29:43.364
 online and see the exhibit there.
 
 00:29:45.123 --> 00:29:45.623
 It's tremendous,
 
 00:29:45.663 --> 00:29:46.644
 particularly for people who
 
 00:29:46.683 --> 00:29:48.546
 can't trek to the Concord
 
 00:29:48.566 --> 00:29:50.946
 Museum or the institutions here,
 
 00:29:50.987 --> 00:29:52.387
 which will be also telling
 
 00:29:52.407 --> 00:29:53.888
 the story of the Commonwealth Museum.
 
 00:29:54.809 --> 00:29:55.990
 You would definitely have a
 
 00:29:56.832 --> 00:29:58.893
 different way of telling the story.
 
 00:29:59.753 --> 00:30:00.753
 And I'm not going to tell
 
 00:30:00.773 --> 00:30:01.555
 you what you should do over
 
 00:30:01.575 --> 00:30:02.435
 the next eight years,
 
 00:30:02.476 --> 00:30:03.195
 but you have plenty of
 
 00:30:03.256 --> 00:30:04.997
 material to continue doing
 
 00:30:05.076 --> 00:30:06.117
 revolutionary-themed
 
 00:30:06.198 --> 00:30:08.240
 exhibits as we move through
 
 00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:09.461
 these eight years and then beyond.
 
 00:30:09.500 --> 00:30:09.961
 I mean,
 
 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:11.221
 we're interested in this no matter
 
 00:30:11.281 --> 00:30:13.042
 whether it's an anniversary or not.
 
 00:30:13.383 --> 00:30:14.084
 Right, right.
 
 00:30:17.213 --> 00:30:18.797
 Yeah, and you know,
 
 00:30:18.856 --> 00:30:22.202
 folks sometimes don't think of,
 
 00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:24.520
 places like Michigan as
 
 00:30:24.580 --> 00:30:26.020
 places where the revolution happened.
 
 00:30:26.060 --> 00:30:26.981
 But one of the great things
 
 00:30:27.021 --> 00:30:29.303
 about these collections is
 
 00:30:29.343 --> 00:30:30.063
 that they showed the
 
 00:30:30.103 --> 00:30:31.443
 geographic scope of the
 
 00:30:31.483 --> 00:30:33.744
 conflict and even
 
 00:30:33.964 --> 00:30:35.046
 particularly beginning with
 
 00:30:35.086 --> 00:30:36.006
 the Seven Years War,
 
 00:30:36.787 --> 00:30:37.906
 the Great Lakes were
 
 00:30:38.268 --> 00:30:40.729
 absolutely central to that
 
 00:30:40.769 --> 00:30:43.289
 conflict and to what was at
 
 00:30:43.329 --> 00:30:47.711
 stake for the empires that
 
 00:30:47.751 --> 00:30:48.532
 were in conflict then.
 
 00:30:49.772 --> 00:30:51.413
 And so it's particularly
 
 00:30:51.473 --> 00:30:52.714
 exciting for us to tell
 
 00:30:53.637 --> 00:30:56.240
 what is a familiar story to most people,
 
 00:30:56.461 --> 00:30:58.883
 Lexington and Concord, you know,
 
 00:30:59.084 --> 00:30:59.804
 events like that,
 
 00:31:00.444 --> 00:31:01.665
 and be able to connect them
 
 00:31:01.726 --> 00:31:05.170
 to the place where the materials are.
 
 00:31:05.851 --> 00:31:06.030
 Right.
 
 00:31:06.290 --> 00:31:06.432
 Yeah,
 
 00:31:06.592 --> 00:31:08.252
 Michel and Mackinac certainly loomed
 
 00:31:08.313 --> 00:31:10.474
 larger to them than perhaps
 
 00:31:10.515 --> 00:31:11.955
 it does to us on the East Coast now.
 
 00:31:12.036 --> 00:31:12.977
 I don't know.
 
 00:31:12.997 --> 00:31:14.377
 My own looking at the
 
 00:31:14.458 --> 00:31:15.940
 published Gage papers at
 
 00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:18.241
 the time of the occupation
 
 00:31:18.281 --> 00:31:19.583
 of Boston in the seventeen
 
 00:31:19.643 --> 00:31:21.064
 sixties when he's in New York,
 
 00:31:21.104 --> 00:31:22.045
 he's certainly not thinking
 
 00:31:22.085 --> 00:31:23.726
 about trouble in Massachusetts.
 
 00:31:23.746 --> 00:31:25.227
 He's thinking about where
 
 00:31:25.247 --> 00:31:27.128
 you are and that that's the
 
 00:31:27.209 --> 00:31:28.430
 reason you needed troops is
 
 00:31:28.470 --> 00:31:29.671
 to protect the native
 
 00:31:29.711 --> 00:31:33.894
 people in that along the Great Lakes.
 
 00:31:36.938 --> 00:31:38.057
 So do you have a lot on
 
 00:31:38.538 --> 00:31:40.979
 Michigan's history in the collections?
 
 00:31:43.460 --> 00:31:45.640
 So there's another library on campus,
 
 00:31:45.660 --> 00:31:47.020
 the Bentley Historical Library,
 
 00:31:47.040 --> 00:31:48.980
 that has Michigan history
 
 00:31:49.280 --> 00:31:51.221
 as part of its particular focus.
 
 00:31:51.642 --> 00:31:52.501
 But that said,
 
 00:31:52.561 --> 00:31:54.563
 we have tremendous resources
 
 00:31:54.583 --> 00:31:56.103
 for the history of Michigan.
 
 00:31:58.584 --> 00:31:59.763
 In the nineteenth century, certainly,
 
 00:31:59.804 --> 00:32:01.064
 we have a large portion of
 
 00:32:01.084 --> 00:32:02.003
 the Lewis Cass papers,
 
 00:32:02.023 --> 00:32:02.664
 but also in the
 
 00:32:02.704 --> 00:32:04.045
 Revolutionary period and Cheney,
 
 00:32:04.065 --> 00:32:04.424
 Kentucky.
 
 00:32:04.921 --> 00:32:05.961
 a bit more specifically
 
 00:32:05.981 --> 00:32:10.144
 about what some of those materials are.
 
 00:32:10.184 --> 00:32:10.566
 Sure.
 
 00:32:11.686 --> 00:32:14.067
 In the manuscripts division, you know,
 
 00:32:14.087 --> 00:32:16.170
 we have handwritten
 
 00:32:16.210 --> 00:32:18.372
 materials from the
 
 00:32:18.672 --> 00:32:21.654
 seventeenth century voyageurs to,
 
 00:32:23.236 --> 00:32:23.476
 you know,
 
 00:32:23.536 --> 00:32:25.817
 to materials from the late nineteenth and
 
 00:32:26.497 --> 00:32:27.557
 and early twentieth
 
 00:32:27.577 --> 00:32:28.659
 centuries with a few
 
 00:32:29.138 --> 00:32:30.400
 twentieth century military
 
 00:32:30.460 --> 00:32:32.241
 collections as well from
 
 00:32:33.803 --> 00:32:34.604
 Michigan soldiers.
 
 00:32:35.424 --> 00:32:39.647
 But Paul mentioned the Lewis Cass papers.
 
 00:32:40.169 --> 00:32:42.269
 We also have the papers of
 
 00:32:42.290 --> 00:32:43.811
 the first congressman sent
 
 00:32:43.852 --> 00:32:45.353
 to the United States from
 
 00:32:45.413 --> 00:32:46.574
 the new state of Michigan
 
 00:32:46.614 --> 00:32:49.376
 in the eighteen thirties, Lucius Lyon.
 
 00:32:50.693 --> 00:32:52.815
 And Lyon's papers are very
 
 00:32:52.875 --> 00:32:54.955
 expansive and provide much
 
 00:32:55.016 --> 00:32:56.717
 documentation of the
 
 00:32:57.297 --> 00:32:58.917
 establishment and creation
 
 00:32:59.157 --> 00:33:01.759
 of Michigan as a state entity.
 
 00:33:02.939 --> 00:33:05.079
 But he was also, you know,
 
 00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:09.721
 he was also part of the handling
 
 00:33:11.048 --> 00:33:11.288
 you know,
 
 00:33:11.328 --> 00:33:14.573
 claims by indigenous peoples for
 
 00:33:15.333 --> 00:33:16.755
 parts of annuity payments,
 
 00:33:16.815 --> 00:33:18.455
 especially related to mixed
 
 00:33:18.496 --> 00:33:21.138
 race persons who were making claims.
 
 00:33:21.179 --> 00:33:25.542
 And so within the Lion Papers are also
 
 00:33:26.223 --> 00:33:28.565
 you know um a full linear
 
 00:33:28.605 --> 00:33:30.686
 foot of um of what are
 
 00:33:30.707 --> 00:33:31.846
 essentially petitions and
 
 00:33:31.946 --> 00:33:33.627
 genealogies and so on from
 
 00:33:34.848 --> 00:33:37.790
 um from largely ojibwe um
 
 00:33:38.371 --> 00:33:40.291
 men and women seeking those
 
 00:33:40.532 --> 00:33:43.233
 um you know um those
 
 00:33:43.253 --> 00:33:43.974
 annuity payments
 
 00:33:44.134 --> 00:33:46.135
 interesting and perceptions of them so
 
 00:33:47.463 --> 00:33:48.984
 We're talking with Cheney Chaupere,
 
 00:33:49.025 --> 00:33:50.546
 who is the curator of
 
 00:33:50.625 --> 00:33:52.607
 manuscripts at the Clements Library,
 
 00:33:52.627 --> 00:33:53.587
 and Paul Erickson,
 
 00:33:53.627 --> 00:33:54.868
 who's a Randolph G. Adams
 
 00:33:54.888 --> 00:33:56.609
 director of the William L.
 
 00:33:56.650 --> 00:33:57.830
 Clements Library.
 
 00:33:58.771 --> 00:34:00.732
 Tremendous place to study this.
 
 00:34:00.772 --> 00:34:02.493
 You also mentioned maps earlier on,
 
 00:34:02.513 --> 00:34:04.375
 the Mr. Clements collected maps.
 
 00:34:04.395 --> 00:34:05.236
 Can we talk a little bit
 
 00:34:05.256 --> 00:34:07.637
 about your map collection?
 
 00:34:07.657 --> 00:34:07.938
 Sure.
 
 00:34:07.958 --> 00:34:10.639
 The map collection is really spectacular.
 
 00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:12.340
 We have over thirty thousand
 
 00:34:12.380 --> 00:34:15.063
 maps ranging from, you know,
 
 00:34:15.782 --> 00:34:17.543
 early atlases of the world
 
 00:34:18.744 --> 00:34:20.666
 to late-nineteenth,
 
 00:34:20.706 --> 00:34:21.748
 early-twentieth century
 
 00:34:21.788 --> 00:34:26.893
 maps of different Native tribes,
 
 00:34:27.193 --> 00:34:28.934
 land holdings in what's now Oklahoma,
 
 00:34:30.476 --> 00:34:32.077
 and everything in between.
 
 00:34:33.539 --> 00:34:34.440
 One great thing about our
 
 00:34:34.460 --> 00:34:35.501
 map collection is that it
 
 00:34:35.541 --> 00:34:36.601
 is quite well cataloged.
 
 00:34:38.003 --> 00:34:38.963
 A large percentage of our
 
 00:34:38.983 --> 00:34:41.025
 map collection is in the online catalog,
 
 00:34:41.045 --> 00:34:42.146
 so it's easy for people to
 
 00:34:43.324 --> 00:34:44.264
 to browse and discover
 
 00:34:44.664 --> 00:34:45.525
 things that we have.
 
 00:34:47.266 --> 00:34:49.106
 Just thinking about, in particular,
 
 00:34:49.206 --> 00:34:52.307
 our eighteenth century collections,
 
 00:34:52.367 --> 00:34:53.307
 one of the most exciting
 
 00:34:53.347 --> 00:34:54.228
 things that we've acquired
 
 00:34:54.268 --> 00:34:55.409
 in the last couple of years
 
 00:34:55.509 --> 00:34:59.530
 is a manuscript plan of the
 
 00:34:59.570 --> 00:35:00.530
 Fort of Detroit from
 
 00:35:00.610 --> 00:35:01.811
 seventeen sixty one that
 
 00:35:01.851 --> 00:35:06.612
 was drawn by a British military officer,
 
 00:35:06.652 --> 00:35:07.313
 William Brazier,
 
 00:35:07.333 --> 00:35:08.112
 at the request of Sir
 
 00:35:08.132 --> 00:35:10.032
 Geoffrey Amherst at the end
 
 00:35:10.072 --> 00:35:11.114
 of the Seven Years War.
 
 00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:13.561
 Amherst wanted to know what
 
 00:35:13.721 --> 00:35:15.041
 the current status of the
 
 00:35:15.061 --> 00:35:16.041
 Fort of Detroit was,
 
 00:35:16.402 --> 00:35:18.061
 wanted to know what they were getting.
 
 00:35:18.902 --> 00:35:20.862
 So it's this absolutely
 
 00:35:20.902 --> 00:35:21.943
 beautifully preserved
 
 00:35:22.842 --> 00:35:25.023
 watercolor map of the Fort
 
 00:35:25.043 --> 00:35:26.503
 of Detroit with a wonderful
 
 00:35:26.563 --> 00:35:27.864
 perspective view of the
 
 00:35:27.905 --> 00:35:31.184
 fort as well as inset at the bottom,
 
 00:35:32.126 --> 00:35:33.786
 which gives a different
 
 00:35:33.826 --> 00:35:36.666
 sense to researchers who
 
 00:35:36.706 --> 00:35:37.806
 are working with
 
 00:35:38.086 --> 00:35:38.907
 particularly the gauge
 
 00:35:38.927 --> 00:35:41.967
 papers of what these places look like.
 
 00:35:43.780 --> 00:35:44.340
 It's amazing.
 
 00:35:46.201 --> 00:35:46.400
 Chaney,
 
 00:35:46.422 --> 00:35:47.762
 you've been there for more than
 
 00:35:47.802 --> 00:35:48.342
 twenty years now.
 
 00:35:48.362 --> 00:35:49.362
 I wonder if you can tell us
 
 00:35:49.882 --> 00:35:52.445
 what's your latest favorite
 
 00:35:52.485 --> 00:35:53.885
 thing you've discovered in
 
 00:35:53.905 --> 00:35:55.646
 the collections?
 
 00:35:55.686 --> 00:35:58.228
 Well, you know,
 
 00:35:59.748 --> 00:36:00.769
 my favorite thing at the
 
 00:36:00.809 --> 00:36:02.911
 library changes on a daily basis.
 
 00:36:03.929 --> 00:36:04.889
 sometimes hourly.
 
 00:36:06.632 --> 00:36:09.213
 But, you know,
 
 00:36:09.355 --> 00:36:12.376
 some materials really stick with you.
 
 00:36:12.478 --> 00:36:13.297
 And I think
 
 00:36:14.405 --> 00:36:18.510
 For me, the part of this work,
 
 00:36:18.550 --> 00:36:19.751
 the part of interacting
 
 00:36:19.791 --> 00:36:21.291
 with primary source materials,
 
 00:36:21.311 --> 00:36:22.893
 with manuscripts in particular,
 
 00:36:23.673 --> 00:36:26.077
 is how close that physical
 
 00:36:26.237 --> 00:36:28.119
 object can bring you to the
 
 00:36:28.179 --> 00:36:29.539
 past that's represented and
 
 00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:30.561
 the people that are
 
 00:36:30.601 --> 00:36:32.782
 represented in them or
 
 00:36:32.822 --> 00:36:34.623
 whose handwriting produced them.
 
 00:36:35.445 --> 00:36:38.489
 so um it's that physicality
 
 00:36:38.528 --> 00:36:39.570
 that can really bring you
 
 00:36:39.610 --> 00:36:40.690
 to it and so when we talk
 
 00:36:40.710 --> 00:36:41.913
 to students for example
 
 00:36:41.972 --> 00:36:42.914
 that's one of the things
 
 00:36:42.934 --> 00:36:44.775
 that we try to you know
 
 00:36:44.815 --> 00:36:46.338
 impart is that like what
 
 00:36:46.478 --> 00:36:47.438
 what are you looking for in
 
 00:36:47.458 --> 00:36:48.539
 this document that gets
 
 00:36:48.699 --> 00:36:50.121
 that that that takes you
 
 00:36:50.141 --> 00:36:53.164
 there right into the past so
 
 00:36:54.012 --> 00:36:54.652
 you know,
 
 00:36:54.672 --> 00:36:57.014
 things like the two favorites
 
 00:36:57.034 --> 00:36:59.094
 that are sticking with me at the moment.
 
 00:36:59.295 --> 00:37:01.717
 One is revolution related,
 
 00:37:01.757 --> 00:37:03.838
 which is in the September of,
 
 00:37:05.637 --> 00:37:07.059
 a woman named Mrs. Cook
 
 00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:10.420
 came to the Thomas Gage's
 
 00:37:10.460 --> 00:37:12.041
 headquarters and delivered
 
 00:37:12.340 --> 00:37:16.063
 a deposition on the state
 
 00:37:16.222 --> 00:37:17.804
 of troops outside of Boston.
 
 00:37:19.007 --> 00:37:21.130
 and I don't recall whose
 
 00:37:21.170 --> 00:37:22.911
 hand um took it it wasn't
 
 00:37:22.952 --> 00:37:25.853
 gauges but um but mrs cook
 
 00:37:25.873 --> 00:37:28.175
 could speak gaelic and so
 
 00:37:28.297 --> 00:37:30.438
 she went around roxbury
 
 00:37:30.518 --> 00:37:31.960
 around the areas outside of
 
 00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:34.882
 boston and very diligently
 
 00:37:34.922 --> 00:37:39.106
 took um you know took a mental note of
 
 00:37:39.947 --> 00:37:41.186
 quantities of ammunition,
 
 00:37:41.226 --> 00:37:42.427
 where people are located,
 
 00:37:42.487 --> 00:37:43.748
 how many people are where.
 
 00:37:44.427 --> 00:37:47.389
 And she was suspected in
 
 00:37:47.449 --> 00:37:49.250
 Washington and interacted
 
 00:37:49.269 --> 00:37:50.309
 with Washington and then
 
 00:37:50.349 --> 00:37:52.371
 was set free to go back to Boston.
 
 00:37:52.670 --> 00:37:54.490
 So she went back and
 
 00:37:54.632 --> 00:37:56.411
 delivered that information to Gage.
 
 00:37:56.992 --> 00:37:58.393
 And that deposition means
 
 00:37:58.873 --> 00:37:59.753
 like when I look at that,
 
 00:37:59.793 --> 00:38:01.454
 I just you can picture that
 
 00:38:01.733 --> 00:38:03.114
 sort of event unfolding
 
 00:38:03.153 --> 00:38:04.153
 through her words and
 
 00:38:04.173 --> 00:38:05.554
 through the document itself.
 
 00:38:06.277 --> 00:38:08.418
 The other that I that I
 
 00:38:08.659 --> 00:38:10.219
 think of is one that came
 
 00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:11.581
 across my desk the other day,
 
 00:38:11.621 --> 00:38:12.742
 which was written in a very
 
 00:38:13.063 --> 00:38:15.043
 shaky hand in April of
 
 00:38:15.184 --> 00:38:17.025
 seventeen and eighty one.
 
 00:38:17.827 --> 00:38:20.588
 It's Bannister Tarleton from
 
 00:38:21.009 --> 00:38:22.990
 he had just come out of the
 
 00:38:23.010 --> 00:38:24.753
 battle at Guilford
 
 00:38:24.853 --> 00:38:28.775
 Courthouse and was heading
 
 00:38:28.835 --> 00:38:29.876
 down in North Carolina.
 
 00:38:30.476 --> 00:38:32.579
 And he had just had a couple
 
 00:38:32.619 --> 00:38:34.721
 of fingers shot off of his right hand.
 
 00:38:35.163 --> 00:38:36.603
 and so he was trying to
 
 00:38:36.643 --> 00:38:37.844
 write with his left hand
 
 00:38:38.744 --> 00:38:40.585
 and so we can publish that
 
 00:38:40.626 --> 00:38:42.648
 letter right and we can
 
 00:38:43.148 --> 00:38:44.088
 type it out and we have the
 
 00:38:44.128 --> 00:38:45.509
 information conveyed but
 
 00:38:45.528 --> 00:38:46.929
 when you see that shaky
 
 00:38:46.969 --> 00:38:48.670
 handwriting on that paper
 
 00:38:48.710 --> 00:38:49.791
 that he's writing from the
 
 00:38:49.831 --> 00:38:51.773
 field you sort of you you
 
 00:38:51.813 --> 00:38:52.873
 can sort of put yourself in
 
 00:38:52.893 --> 00:38:54.894
 the position not of
 
 00:38:54.934 --> 00:38:56.896
 banister tarleton probably
 
 00:38:56.956 --> 00:38:58.436
 certainly but you can you
 
 00:38:58.478 --> 00:39:00.719
 can sort of better sort of picture
 
 00:39:01.717 --> 00:39:03.518
 the reality and the humanity
 
 00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:06.481
 of those sorts of events.
 
 00:39:06.501 --> 00:39:07.221
 It's amazing.
 
 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:07.902
 It's really amazing.
 
 00:39:07.922 --> 00:39:08.961
 It does give you that
 
 00:39:09.083 --> 00:39:10.202
 connection that you don't
 
 00:39:10.242 --> 00:39:11.344
 get either if you see it on
 
 00:39:11.384 --> 00:39:12.344
 a screen or if you're
 
 00:39:12.804 --> 00:39:14.425
 reading a transcribed copy.
 
 00:39:15.387 --> 00:39:16.467
 And so, Paul,
 
 00:39:16.487 --> 00:39:18.668
 you've been at a number of institutions,
 
 00:39:18.728 --> 00:39:19.610
 including the American
 
 00:39:19.650 --> 00:39:20.791
 Antiquarian Society,
 
 00:39:20.831 --> 00:39:22.112
 which is one of our partner
 
 00:39:22.231 --> 00:39:23.072
 organizations.
 
 00:39:23.112 --> 00:39:25.454
 I wonder if in your briefer
 
 00:39:25.494 --> 00:39:26.934
 time at the Clements,
 
 00:39:26.974 --> 00:39:28.215
 have you found a favorite thing?
 
 00:39:30.432 --> 00:39:30.672
 Yeah,
 
 00:39:30.693 --> 00:39:31.994
 so I've been here for five years and
 
 00:39:32.054 --> 00:39:32.813
 much like Chaney,
 
 00:39:33.213 --> 00:39:34.675
 my favorite thing changes
 
 00:39:35.175 --> 00:39:36.215
 on a daily basis.
 
 00:39:38.416 --> 00:39:39.817
 But similar to Chaney,
 
 00:39:39.836 --> 00:39:42.056
 the things that really grab
 
 00:39:42.077 --> 00:39:42.978
 me and stick with me are
 
 00:39:42.998 --> 00:39:45.998
 the things that put you in
 
 00:39:46.039 --> 00:39:47.259
 a room with somebody and
 
 00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:49.360
 can really give you a sense
 
 00:39:50.920 --> 00:39:53.521
 of the immediacy of someone's experience.
 
 00:39:53.541 --> 00:39:54.981
 And I'll just mention two things.
 
 00:39:55.081 --> 00:39:56.501
 One is an item that just
 
 00:39:56.521 --> 00:39:57.202
 came in last week.
 
 00:39:59.110 --> 00:39:59.329
 It's a
 
 00:39:59.369 --> 00:40:01.570
 late-nineteenth-century shorthand
 
 00:40:01.771 --> 00:40:02.650
 instruction manual,
 
 00:40:03.010 --> 00:40:06.652
 a book to teach someone how
 
 00:40:06.672 --> 00:40:07.273
 to take shorthand.
 
 00:40:07.313 --> 00:40:09.813
 And there's a note inside
 
 00:40:09.873 --> 00:40:12.213
 the front cover from a
 
 00:40:12.273 --> 00:40:14.375
 woman who owned it saying,
 
 00:40:16.114 --> 00:40:18.255
 this book enabled me to
 
 00:40:18.356 --> 00:40:21.277
 feed my two sons after their father died,
 
 00:40:21.436 --> 00:40:24.557
 and so it is worth more to me than gold.
 
 00:40:26.137 --> 00:40:27.559
 So, you know, a pedestrian,
 
 00:40:28.746 --> 00:40:29.585
 We've got a lot of shorthand
 
 00:40:29.606 --> 00:40:31.126
 manuals in the collection,
 
 00:40:31.766 --> 00:40:34.128
 but this puts you in the
 
 00:40:34.188 --> 00:40:37.088
 room with a woman who's
 
 00:40:37.128 --> 00:40:37.969
 been widowed and has to
 
 00:40:37.989 --> 00:40:39.128
 figure out how to feed her kids.
 
 00:40:39.588 --> 00:40:41.829
 And this book helps her do that.
 
 00:40:43.271 --> 00:40:45.670
 And the other things, people always ask,
 
 00:40:46.550 --> 00:40:47.192
 what's the thing you would
 
 00:40:47.211 --> 00:40:48.672
 grab in the building if it was on fire?
 
 00:40:49.472 --> 00:40:52.873
 And we go to great lengths
 
 00:40:52.893 --> 00:40:53.514
 to make sure the building
 
 00:40:53.534 --> 00:40:54.333
 never catches on fire.
 
 00:40:56.643 --> 00:40:58.164
 So we hold the papers of the
 
 00:40:58.204 --> 00:41:00.485
 Rochester Ladies' Anti-Slavery Society,
 
 00:41:00.525 --> 00:41:04.025
 which was a group of upper
 
 00:41:04.045 --> 00:41:05.186
 middle class white
 
 00:41:05.226 --> 00:41:07.088
 abolitionist women in Rochester, New York,
 
 00:41:07.188 --> 00:41:09.568
 that was formed mostly to
 
 00:41:10.509 --> 00:41:11.610
 support Frederick Douglass'
 
 00:41:11.630 --> 00:41:12.510
 publication of his
 
 00:41:12.550 --> 00:41:13.490
 newspapers in Rochester.
 
 00:41:14.990 --> 00:41:16.552
 And so the collection has
 
 00:41:16.652 --> 00:41:17.753
 minutes of their meetings
 
 00:41:17.833 --> 00:41:20.614
 and correspondence with various folks,
 
 00:41:20.653 --> 00:41:22.494
 including correspondence with Douglass.
 
 00:41:24.402 --> 00:41:28.384
 A lot of it is quasi-formal
 
 00:41:28.423 --> 00:41:29.625
 business correspondence.
 
 00:41:30.724 --> 00:41:32.585
 Susan Porter, the head of the society,
 
 00:41:32.625 --> 00:41:34.126
 will write to Douglass
 
 00:41:34.186 --> 00:41:35.146
 asking him to give a talk
 
 00:41:35.186 --> 00:41:36.106
 at an event and he will
 
 00:41:36.126 --> 00:41:37.146
 write back saying he's too
 
 00:41:37.166 --> 00:41:39.186
 busy and that kind of thing.
 
 00:41:39.226 --> 00:41:43.268
 But there are four or five, maybe six,
 
 00:41:44.367 --> 00:41:46.048
 just little short notes on
 
 00:41:46.429 --> 00:41:48.369
 scraps of paper from
 
 00:41:48.429 --> 00:41:49.969
 Douglass to Susan Porter.
 
 00:41:52.586 --> 00:41:54.829
 asking her for money because
 
 00:41:54.909 --> 00:41:56.630
 he has a fugitive slave in
 
 00:41:56.670 --> 00:41:57.690
 his newspaper office.
 
 00:41:57.831 --> 00:41:59.311
 Frederick Douglass in the
 
 00:41:59.351 --> 00:42:00.313
 eighteen fifties was the
 
 00:42:00.353 --> 00:42:03.375
 most famous black man in America.
 
 00:42:03.635 --> 00:42:04.976
 And so people who were
 
 00:42:06.396 --> 00:42:08.097
 fleeing the South knew who
 
 00:42:08.137 --> 00:42:09.438
 he was and would come to
 
 00:42:09.478 --> 00:42:10.500
 Rochester looking for him.
 
 00:42:11.681 --> 00:42:12.942
 And there's one in particular.
 
 00:42:13.302 --> 00:42:15.163
 Douglass writes to Susan Porter saying,
 
 00:42:15.222 --> 00:42:16.764
 I have a man in my office
 
 00:42:16.804 --> 00:42:19.666
 right now named William Osborne, who is
 
 00:42:20.958 --> 00:42:22.199
 a fugitive from slavery.
 
 00:42:22.860 --> 00:42:26.942
 He all he needs is two
 
 00:42:26.961 --> 00:42:28.123
 dollars and fifty cents to
 
 00:42:28.143 --> 00:42:28.882
 get him to Canada.
 
 00:42:30.403 --> 00:42:31.965
 This note is written in February.
 
 00:42:32.125 --> 00:42:33.865
 And so every time I read it,
 
 00:42:34.525 --> 00:42:37.288
 I think about that man, William Osborne,
 
 00:42:37.327 --> 00:42:38.027
 who was frightened.
 
 00:42:38.668 --> 00:42:39.768
 He knows people are chasing
 
 00:42:39.809 --> 00:42:40.769
 him and looking for him.
 
 00:42:41.621 --> 00:42:43.442
 It's February in Rochester, New York.
 
 00:42:43.481 --> 00:42:45.163
 He's never been that cold in his life.
 
 00:42:45.623 --> 00:42:46.762
 Never seen that much snow.
 
 00:42:47.963 --> 00:42:49.824
 And two dollars and fifty
 
 00:42:49.844 --> 00:42:51.025
 cents is all that stands
 
 00:42:51.065 --> 00:42:53.226
 between him and Liberty.
 
 00:42:53.606 --> 00:42:54.786
 And, you know,
 
 00:42:54.867 --> 00:42:57.489
 Douglas hastily writing this
 
 00:42:57.528 --> 00:42:59.248
 note to to a woman who
 
 00:42:59.289 --> 00:43:00.789
 lives across town asking her for help.
 
 00:43:03.070 --> 00:43:05.271
 That's the kind of thing that, you know,
 
 00:43:05.612 --> 00:43:06.432
 and yeah, you know,
 
 00:43:06.492 --> 00:43:07.954
 you can we can type it up
 
 00:43:08.014 --> 00:43:09.534
 and you can see the digitized version,
 
 00:43:09.554 --> 00:43:10.375
 but it's not the same as
 
 00:43:10.394 --> 00:43:10.974
 seeing it in person.
 
 00:43:11.487 --> 00:43:11.927
 Amazing.
 
 00:43:12.969 --> 00:43:13.150
 Amazing.
 
 00:43:13.170 --> 00:43:13.389
 Thank you.
 
 00:43:13.409 --> 00:43:14.931
 We've been talking with Paul Erickson,
 
 00:43:14.951 --> 00:43:16.233
 the Randolph G. Adams
 
 00:43:16.273 --> 00:43:17.653
 Director of the William L.
 
 00:43:17.693 --> 00:43:19.755
 Clements Library in Ann Arbor, Michigan,
 
 00:43:20.056 --> 00:43:22.038
 as well as Cheney Chopere,
 
 00:43:22.057 --> 00:43:22.998
 who is the Curator of
 
 00:43:23.059 --> 00:43:24.701
 Manuscripts at the Clements Library.
 
 00:43:24.721 --> 00:43:26.222
 Thank you both so much for joining us.
 
 00:43:26.242 --> 00:43:28.583
 It's been great hearing more
 
 00:43:28.603 --> 00:43:29.905
 about this tremendous place.
 
 00:43:30.405 --> 00:43:31.786
 Well, thank you so much for the invitation,
 
 00:43:31.806 --> 00:43:31.967
 Bob.
 
 00:43:31.987 --> 00:43:32.807
 It's been great having the
 
 00:43:32.847 --> 00:43:33.528
 chance to talk with you.
 
 00:43:35.117 --> 00:43:36.559
 I look forward to seeing you
 
 00:43:36.699 --> 00:43:37.940
 in the library at some point.
 
 00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:38.561
 By the way,
 
 00:43:39.302 --> 00:43:42.005
 you have a great paneled room to work in,
 
 00:43:42.045 --> 00:43:42.427
 Janie.
 
 00:43:45.010 --> 00:43:46.351
 Paul, this is now my office.
 
 00:43:52.476 --> 00:43:54.217
 And I want to thank Jonathan Lane,
 
 00:43:54.277 --> 00:43:55.018
 our producer,
 
 00:43:55.097 --> 00:43:56.378
 as well as our listeners
 
 00:43:56.438 --> 00:43:58.157
 around the country, around the world.
 
 00:43:58.599 --> 00:43:59.498
 And every week we thank
 
 00:43:59.518 --> 00:44:01.378
 folks who are tuning in regularly.
 
 00:44:01.418 --> 00:44:02.358
 And if you're in one of
 
 00:44:02.378 --> 00:44:03.539
 these places and want some
 
 00:44:03.579 --> 00:44:05.159
 of our Revolution Two-Fifty swag,
 
 00:44:05.179 --> 00:44:06.360
 send Jonathan an email,
 
 00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:08.880
 jlane at revolutiontwofifty.org.
 
 00:44:09.681 --> 00:44:10.681
 And if you're not in one of
 
 00:44:10.721 --> 00:44:12.581
 these places and still want some swag,
 
 00:44:12.641 --> 00:44:13.902
 also email Jonathan and
 
 00:44:14.811 --> 00:44:15.711
 uh so this week I want to
 
 00:44:15.751 --> 00:44:16.931
 thank our listeners in
 
 00:44:16.992 --> 00:44:18.793
 detroit as well as in ann
 
 00:44:18.932 --> 00:44:21.193
 arbor and grand rapids and
 
 00:44:21.233 --> 00:44:23.155
 in overland park kansas and
 
 00:44:23.255 --> 00:44:24.655
 dallas and marietta in
 
 00:44:24.715 --> 00:44:26.976
 georgia dublin edinburgh
 
 00:44:27.036 --> 00:44:29.097
 and toronto maize landing
 
 00:44:29.239 --> 00:44:30.378
 and wayne new jersey
 
 00:44:30.478 --> 00:44:31.780
 anthony wayne's a guy who's
 
 00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:33.340
 named given his name to a
 
 00:44:33.380 --> 00:44:34.360
 lot of places including the
 
 00:44:34.400 --> 00:44:35.601
 largest county in michigan
 
 00:44:36.242 --> 00:44:37.782
 um lexington and arlington
 
 00:44:37.822 --> 00:44:39.543
 here in the commonwealth of massachusetts
 
 00:44:40.065 --> 00:44:42.672
 Araby, Louisiana, Vienna, Maine, Amman,
 
 00:44:42.711 --> 00:44:44.717
 Jordan, and places beyond and between.
 
 00:44:44.737 --> 00:44:45.619
 Thanks for joining us.
 
 00:44:45.780 --> 00:44:47.284
 Now we'll be piped out on
 
 00:44:47.304 --> 00:44:48.065
 the road to Boston.