Frederick Douglass and the Founding Ideals

Frederick Douglass’ 1852 speech, “What to the Slave is the Fourth of July” remains one of the defining rebukes to the work of the Founders.  While Douglass admired the ideals of the Founders, their inability to extend their precepts of liberty to people of color Douglass considered a breach of the promise of America.  Frederick Douglass scholar and performer Nathan Richardson talks with us about Douglass’ use of the founding ideals to fight for the emancipation of people of color and the absolute abolition of slavery.

Nathan Richardson is a published author, performance poet, and Frederick Douglass Historian.

Transcript

WEBVTT
 
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 Hello, everyone,
 
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 and welcome to the
 
 00:00:02.553 --> 00:00:04.514
 Revolution Two-Fifty podcast.
 
 00:00:05.094 --> 00:00:06.136
 I am Bob Allison.
 
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 I chair the Revolution
 
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 Two-Fifty Advisory Group.
 
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 We are a consortium of
 
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 seventy-five organizations
 
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 in Massachusetts planning
 
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 commemorations of the
 
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 beginnings of American independence.
 
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 And we have with us today a
 
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 very special guest,
 
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 Mr. Frederick Douglass.
 
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 Mr. Douglass, welcome.
 
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 Good afternoon to you.
 
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 Well, I have to check my time here.
 
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 Now I believe we're in the
 
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 year of our Lord,
 
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 at two thousand and twenty-four,
 
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 if you can believe that.
 
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 We are, yes.
 
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 It is still morning.
 
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 And we will imagine it's the
 
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 year eighteen fifty-two,
 
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 and you have just delivered
 
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 a powerful speech about the
 
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 meaning of the fourth of July.
 
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 Can we talk a little bit
 
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 about what to the American
 
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 slave is the fourth of July?
 
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 Yes, well,
 
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 you might understand that the
 
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 circumstances surrounding
 
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 I mean,
 
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 giving that speech was that the
 
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 Rochester Anti-Slavery Sowing Society,
 
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 the Women Anti-Slavery Sowing Society,
 
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 invited me to do that
 
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 speech in downtown Rochester.
 
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 And initially, I had declined the offer.
 
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 I basically said to my daughter,
 
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 who brought me the telegram,
 
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 what to the slave is the Fourth of July.
 
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 But of course,
 
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 I had been thinking about
 
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 this and contemplating this
 
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 over the years as I had, of course,
 
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 initially been recruited by
 
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 William Ward Garrison and
 
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 the Garrisonians.
 
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 And their idea of the
 
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 Constitution was that it
 
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 was a flawed document that
 
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 should be torn up and rewritten,
 
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 that they were non-voters.
 
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 And so when I started out on
 
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 the Hundred Convention
 
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 speaking tour with the Garrisonians,
 
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 they kept me in somewhat of a box,
 
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 only telling my story of my
 
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 time in bondage and my
 
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 career in bondage and my escape.
 
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 But I soon got tired of that
 
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 and wanted to explore this
 
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 idea of the abolition of slavery.
 
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 And so it was finally that I was able to
 
 00:02:26.913 --> 00:02:28.115
 I started reading the
 
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 Constitution for myself,
 
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 to read what the founding
 
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 fathers said as far as the
 
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 founding of the country,
 
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 that I came to my own
 
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 conclusion that the
 
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 Constitution is a living
 
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 idea and that it is a remedy.
 
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 It is not a slavery document.
 
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 It is an anti-slavery document.
 
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 And so that's why I finally
 
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 went on the fifth of July.
 
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 Yes.
 
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 Of eighteen fifty two to
 
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 deliver the speech.
 
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 What to the American slave
 
 00:03:02.941 --> 00:03:04.100
 is the Fourth of July.
 
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 And the speech does cover
 
 00:03:07.662 --> 00:03:09.663
 the achievements of the founders,
 
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 but then also the flaws.
 
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 Yes.
 
 00:03:13.204 --> 00:03:13.463
 Well,
 
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 What I said in the speech,
 
 00:03:16.700 --> 00:03:17.882
 in the beginning of the speech,
 
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 I'm giving much credit to
 
 00:03:19.923 --> 00:03:21.503
 the founding fathers of the country.
 
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 I say they were brave men.
 
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 They were peaceful men.
 
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 They chose revolution rather
 
 00:03:29.069 --> 00:03:31.532
 than peaceful submission to bondage.
 
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 And so they have done their work,
 
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 and they did much of it well.
 
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 But we now receive our own work.
 
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 And I quoted Sidney Smith.
 
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 I said,
 
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 men seldom eulogize the fame and
 
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 fortune of their forefathers,
 
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 except to exclude some
 
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 folly or wickedness of their own.
 
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 And so as I turned the
 
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 speech to the current
 
 00:04:04.689 --> 00:04:06.270
 situation of eighteen fifty
 
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 two and and the abolition of slavery,
 
 00:04:09.653 --> 00:04:11.355
 what I was saying to America.
 
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 is that they were not living
 
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 up to the Constitution and
 
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 the ideals of the Constitution.
 
 00:04:17.021 --> 00:04:17.860
 I was not as much
 
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 criticizing what the
 
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 founding fathers had laid down,
 
 00:04:22.504 --> 00:04:26.166
 but that those of us during
 
 00:04:26.187 --> 00:04:28.509
 that time were just resting
 
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 on what they had done,
 
 00:04:30.430 --> 00:04:31.990
 what our founding fathers had done,
 
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 and not contributing
 
 00:04:33.372 --> 00:04:34.952
 anything to our democracy
 
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 to make it a more perfect union.
 
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 It's an interesting,
 
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 very interesting and
 
 00:04:39.815 --> 00:04:41.297
 provocative idea that the
 
 00:04:41.377 --> 00:04:43.538
 fault was not with the founders,
 
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 but with us.
 
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 Yes, yes.
 
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 There was so much hypocrisy
 
 00:04:53.144 --> 00:04:55.466
 in Americans at that time
 
 00:04:56.305 --> 00:04:57.487
 that they would have this
 
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 idea that all men are created equal,
 
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 yet and still,
 
 00:05:02.189 --> 00:05:06.651
 they would have men and women in bondage.
 
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 That they would...
 
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 have a slave on Sunday in
 
 00:05:11.144 --> 00:05:15.206
 church praying in a pious
 
 00:05:15.266 --> 00:05:19.327
 manner and then on Monday whip a slave.
 
 00:05:19.528 --> 00:05:22.048
 And so these contradictions
 
 00:05:22.910 --> 00:05:25.870
 in what our preamble said
 
 00:05:25.891 --> 00:05:27.391
 about the idea of America
 
 00:05:27.512 --> 00:05:28.692
 and what was actually being
 
 00:05:28.771 --> 00:05:31.572
 lived was the stark
 
 00:05:31.613 --> 00:05:34.355
 contrast that I was bringing to America.
 
 00:05:35.875 --> 00:05:36.815
 And then of course another
 
 00:05:37.670 --> 00:05:38.612
 event happening in the
 
 00:05:38.672 --> 00:05:39.851
 eighteen fifties was the
 
 00:05:39.911 --> 00:05:41.552
 publication of the writings
 
 00:05:41.612 --> 00:05:44.053
 of James Madison, Thomas Jefferson,
 
 00:05:44.093 --> 00:05:45.154
 George Washington,
 
 00:05:45.774 --> 00:05:47.836
 in which people could read
 
 00:05:47.896 --> 00:05:48.877
 what they were saying
 
 00:05:48.937 --> 00:05:49.956
 privately about the
 
 00:05:50.036 --> 00:05:52.177
 institution of slavery at
 
 00:05:52.218 --> 00:05:53.038
 the same time as you had a
 
 00:05:53.098 --> 00:05:54.499
 Supreme Court saying that
 
 00:05:54.519 --> 00:05:56.319
 the it was a fixed opinion
 
 00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:57.961
 about racial inequality.
 
 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:00.442
 And they were grappling with
 
 00:06:00.502 --> 00:06:02.502
 that and recognizing that
 
 00:06:02.562 --> 00:06:04.043
 recognizing their own hypocrisy.
 
 00:06:04.963 --> 00:06:05.423
 Yes.
 
 00:06:05.803 --> 00:06:06.944
 As a matter of fact,
 
 00:06:07.084 --> 00:06:11.586
 even just before my speech on that,
 
 00:06:12.567 --> 00:06:12.947
 of course,
 
 00:06:13.048 --> 00:06:15.930
 reading all the founding
 
 00:06:15.970 --> 00:06:17.170
 documents of the founding
 
 00:06:17.211 --> 00:06:20.291
 fathers and what our president,
 
 00:06:20.552 --> 00:06:21.773
 George Washington,
 
 00:06:22.374 --> 00:06:24.535
 the example he set after
 
 00:06:24.574 --> 00:06:26.755
 two terms as president to
 
 00:06:27.276 --> 00:06:30.358
 step down and release his vast power,
 
 00:06:32.139 --> 00:06:33.180
 release that back to the
 
 00:06:33.220 --> 00:06:34.180
 civilian government,
 
 00:06:34.762 --> 00:06:36.983
 It was all a contrast,
 
 00:06:37.064 --> 00:06:39.384
 especially the contrast of Judge Taney,
 
 00:06:39.805 --> 00:06:42.107
 who denied the rights of
 
 00:06:42.146 --> 00:06:44.028
 Dred Scott in his decision.
 
 00:06:45.209 --> 00:06:46.430
 And so all of these things
 
 00:06:46.529 --> 00:06:50.533
 were infuriating me, and for that matter,
 
 00:06:50.593 --> 00:06:51.894
 infuriating the country,
 
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 and were leading us to what, of course,
 
 00:06:56.637 --> 00:06:59.899
 contrary to what Mr. Garrison was saying,
 
 00:06:59.939 --> 00:07:00.779
 that we would be able to
 
 00:07:00.819 --> 00:07:02.060
 change the country by mere
 
 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:02.920
 moral assuages.
 
 00:07:03.755 --> 00:07:05.637
 that we would end up in a civil war.
 
 00:07:07.456 --> 00:07:09.557
 And we did end up in a civil war.
 
 00:07:09.757 --> 00:07:12.819
 And your sons fought in the war.
 
 00:07:12.918 --> 00:07:15.180
 And you met with President Lincoln.
 
 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:16.339
 And I don't think there's
 
 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:18.201
 any two figures at the time
 
 00:07:18.740 --> 00:07:20.081
 who were more versed in
 
 00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:21.362
 what the founders thought
 
 00:07:21.382 --> 00:07:24.723
 than you and President Lincoln.
 
 00:07:25.043 --> 00:07:26.562
 Yes, of course.
 
 00:07:27.783 --> 00:07:31.144
 I think if you really wanted to understand
 
 00:07:32.175 --> 00:07:34.697
 my evolving relationship
 
 00:07:34.896 --> 00:07:36.057
 with President Lincoln,
 
 00:07:36.117 --> 00:07:37.218
 you would have to go to my
 
 00:07:37.278 --> 00:07:40.059
 speech from a team of
 
 00:07:40.119 --> 00:07:41.379
 seventy five when we
 
 00:07:41.459 --> 00:07:43.459
 erected the Emancipation Monument.
 
 00:07:43.500 --> 00:07:43.800
 Yes.
 
 00:07:44.081 --> 00:07:45.401
 In Washington, D.C.,
 
 00:07:46.141 --> 00:07:48.122
 when I when I was there and
 
 00:07:48.141 --> 00:07:50.423
 I and I spoke on the memory
 
 00:07:50.463 --> 00:07:51.863
 of Abraham Lincoln,
 
 00:07:52.004 --> 00:07:53.064
 which I was saying then
 
 00:07:53.084 --> 00:07:56.725
 that he was not our first choice,
 
 00:07:57.586 --> 00:07:58.305
 that he was.
 
 00:07:59.206 --> 00:08:00.007
 As a matter of fact,
 
 00:08:00.985 --> 00:08:03.485
 He was predominantly the
 
 00:08:03.524 --> 00:08:04.625
 white man's president,
 
 00:08:04.725 --> 00:08:06.105
 entirely devoted to the
 
 00:08:06.146 --> 00:08:07.706
 welfare of white men.
 
 00:08:08.805 --> 00:08:10.387
 You might understand that we
 
 00:08:10.427 --> 00:08:13.526
 were the white people of
 
 00:08:13.547 --> 00:08:14.507
 the United States were the
 
 00:08:14.567 --> 00:08:16.007
 children of Abraham Lincoln.
 
 00:08:16.387 --> 00:08:18.848
 We colored people were his stepchildren,
 
 00:08:19.668 --> 00:08:21.088
 children by adoption,
 
 00:08:22.408 --> 00:08:23.528
 children by the forces of
 
 00:08:23.588 --> 00:08:25.048
 circumstance and necessity.
 
 00:08:25.668 --> 00:08:27.269
 But what we were able to do
 
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 and what I was able to do by reading
 
 00:08:31.148 --> 00:08:32.469
 the speeches of Abraham
 
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 Lincoln and following his
 
 00:08:35.431 --> 00:08:37.852
 ideas on the westward
 
 00:08:37.932 --> 00:08:42.235
 expansion of slavery and to
 
 00:08:42.316 --> 00:08:44.158
 lobby Abraham Lincoln
 
 00:08:44.937 --> 00:08:46.519
 during the Civil War to add
 
 00:08:46.558 --> 00:08:48.080
 black soldiers to the fight.
 
 00:08:49.642 --> 00:08:51.263
 One of the reasons that one of the,
 
 00:08:51.822 --> 00:08:52.182
 one of the,
 
 00:08:53.629 --> 00:08:54.850
 things that we brought to
 
 00:08:54.909 --> 00:08:57.091
 Mr. Lincoln was the idea
 
 00:08:57.171 --> 00:08:58.552
 set by the founding fathers
 
 00:08:58.591 --> 00:09:00.312
 that we could have black
 
 00:09:00.352 --> 00:09:03.134
 men fighting for the union.
 
 00:09:03.193 --> 00:09:03.894
 If we fought,
 
 00:09:04.654 --> 00:09:06.096
 if the black men of
 
 00:09:06.155 --> 00:09:09.116
 Massachusetts fought in the
 
 00:09:09.136 --> 00:09:10.238
 Revolutionary War,
 
 00:09:11.359 --> 00:09:13.158
 if we fought alongside Washington,
 
 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:15.160
 then why would it be not
 
 00:09:15.201 --> 00:09:17.542
 good enough to fight alongside McClellan?
 
 00:09:19.543 --> 00:09:21.464
 And so, of course, I always describe
 
 00:09:21.923 --> 00:09:24.047
 by Mr. Lincoln as an honest boatman.
 
 00:09:24.086 --> 00:09:26.471
 And he was a prudent thinker
 
 00:09:26.591 --> 00:09:30.460
 and finally saw the light.
 
 00:09:32.201 --> 00:09:33.783
 Yes, you did.
 
 00:09:33.802 --> 00:09:33.962
 Now,
 
 00:09:34.062 --> 00:09:37.423
 speaking of Washington's farewell in
 
 00:09:37.583 --> 00:09:38.945
 eighteen seventy four,
 
 00:09:39.164 --> 00:09:41.306
 you visited Annapolis for a
 
 00:09:41.826 --> 00:09:43.486
 recreation of that dramatic
 
 00:09:43.506 --> 00:09:44.706
 scene when Washington
 
 00:09:45.087 --> 00:09:46.607
 resigned his commission as
 
 00:09:46.648 --> 00:09:48.328
 the commander of the Continental Army.
 
 00:09:48.369 --> 00:09:49.690
 So can you tell us a bit
 
 00:09:49.730 --> 00:09:51.149
 about that and what impact
 
 00:09:51.190 --> 00:09:52.350
 that had on your thinking
 
 00:09:52.510 --> 00:09:54.392
 as reading Washington's
 
 00:09:54.831 --> 00:09:57.092
 speech to the Congress of
 
 00:09:57.852 --> 00:09:59.693
 in seventeen eighty three?
 
 00:10:01.072 --> 00:10:03.192
 Yes, well,
 
 00:10:03.232 --> 00:10:05.374
 the speech that I quoted or I
 
 00:10:05.413 --> 00:10:07.394
 recited there at the
 
 00:10:07.453 --> 00:10:08.315
 Capitol building in
 
 00:10:08.375 --> 00:10:11.475
 Annapolis was really a
 
 00:10:11.596 --> 00:10:13.297
 short version of his
 
 00:10:13.336 --> 00:10:15.277
 resignation speech that he
 
 00:10:15.376 --> 00:10:17.038
 read to the Congress there.
 
 00:10:17.717 --> 00:10:19.999
 But I also read the longer
 
 00:10:20.019 --> 00:10:22.139
 version of his resignation
 
 00:10:22.179 --> 00:10:23.139
 speech in which he went
 
 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:25.801
 into some great length to
 
 00:10:25.860 --> 00:10:27.481
 describe and give a warning
 
 00:10:28.048 --> 00:10:31.230
 to Americans, to America as we go forward,
 
 00:10:31.750 --> 00:10:33.011
 of the factions that might
 
 00:10:33.032 --> 00:10:35.352
 be created that would divide us,
 
 00:10:36.033 --> 00:10:39.235
 east against west, north against south,
 
 00:10:39.514 --> 00:10:44.677
 that there would be a men
 
 00:10:45.138 --> 00:10:45.957
 who would come into the
 
 00:10:46.018 --> 00:10:48.038
 government to interrupt the
 
 00:10:48.099 --> 00:10:49.740
 quiet operation of the
 
 00:10:49.779 --> 00:10:50.660
 federal government.
 
 00:10:51.860 --> 00:10:53.841
 And so I was quoting
 
 00:10:55.509 --> 00:10:56.490
 not only Lincoln,
 
 00:10:56.570 --> 00:10:58.591
 but Washington throughout, I mean,
 
 00:10:58.711 --> 00:11:00.991
 in the speech that I gave in, in, in, in,
 
 00:11:01.052 --> 00:11:03.533
 in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in,
 
 00:11:03.552 --> 00:11:05.695
 in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in,
 
 00:11:05.794 --> 00:11:07.515
 in, in, in, in, in,
 
 00:11:25.972 --> 00:11:26.312
 Yes.
 
 00:11:27.153 --> 00:11:28.354
 And you spoke here,
 
 00:11:28.394 --> 00:11:29.455
 you've spoken in Boston
 
 00:11:29.495 --> 00:11:31.015
 many times and at our music
 
 00:11:31.056 --> 00:11:32.615
 hall in eighteen sixty,
 
 00:11:32.635 --> 00:11:34.317
 you said that liberty is
 
 00:11:34.417 --> 00:11:35.758
 meaningless where the right
 
 00:11:35.798 --> 00:11:37.078
 to utter one's thoughts and
 
 00:11:37.119 --> 00:11:39.740
 opinions has ceased to exist.
 
 00:11:39.779 --> 00:11:42.341
 It's a very powerful statement.
 
 00:11:43.422 --> 00:11:44.381
 Yes, yes.
 
 00:11:44.822 --> 00:11:47.124
 Well,
 
 00:11:47.183 --> 00:11:51.765
 my definition of freedom for the
 
 00:11:51.806 --> 00:11:53.167
 colored man is the right to
 
 00:11:53.226 --> 00:11:55.107
 choose one's own employment.
 
 00:11:56.383 --> 00:11:57.703
 And if it means anything,
 
 00:11:59.145 --> 00:12:01.528
 if any individual tells
 
 00:12:01.587 --> 00:12:03.649
 another man when he shall work,
 
 00:12:04.610 --> 00:12:05.932
 where he shall work,
 
 00:12:06.032 --> 00:12:07.293
 and for what he shall work,
 
 00:12:07.653 --> 00:12:09.475
 they are reducing him to slavery.
 
 00:12:09.514 --> 00:12:10.475
 He is a slave.
 
 00:12:10.796 --> 00:12:12.177
 If he is not a slave of any
 
 00:12:12.216 --> 00:12:13.357
 individual master,
 
 00:12:13.658 --> 00:12:15.419
 he is a slave of society
 
 00:12:15.821 --> 00:12:18.143
 and holds his liberty as a privilege,
 
 00:12:18.783 --> 00:12:19.724
 not as a right.
 
 00:12:23.134 --> 00:12:26.174
 What surprised you most when
 
 00:12:26.235 --> 00:12:28.315
 you left the House of
 
 00:12:28.355 --> 00:12:31.576
 Bondage and arrived in the
 
 00:12:32.057 --> 00:12:32.716
 land of freedom?
 
 00:12:33.956 --> 00:12:35.658
 Was it all you expected or
 
 00:12:35.717 --> 00:12:37.878
 did you find things not
 
 00:12:37.918 --> 00:12:42.219
 what you expected when you became free?
 
 00:12:42.278 --> 00:12:42.619
 Well,
 
 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:46.321
 certainly on the minute that I
 
 00:12:46.341 --> 00:12:47.900
 escaped from Baltimore and
 
 00:12:48.725 --> 00:12:50.346
 I made my way through
 
 00:12:50.386 --> 00:12:51.427
 Annapolis and Harvard to
 
 00:12:51.447 --> 00:12:53.129
 grace to New York.
 
 00:12:54.110 --> 00:12:56.410
 I soon realized that there
 
 00:12:56.431 --> 00:13:00.293
 was still many dangers in free territory.
 
 00:13:00.955 --> 00:13:01.355
 Of course,
 
 00:13:01.414 --> 00:13:04.736
 I was a fugitive and being there
 
 00:13:04.777 --> 00:13:05.837
 in New York for all the
 
 00:13:05.878 --> 00:13:08.559
 things that were rationed
 
 00:13:08.580 --> 00:13:11.241
 to me as a slave on a
 
 00:13:11.261 --> 00:13:13.182
 plantation in Maryland were
 
 00:13:13.222 --> 00:13:15.465
 there for my having without
 
 00:13:16.004 --> 00:13:17.125
 a job and money.
 
 00:13:17.839 --> 00:13:18.879
 Those things,
 
 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:21.360
 I didn't have access to them.
 
 00:13:21.799 --> 00:13:24.240
 Not only that, but, of course,
 
 00:13:24.260 --> 00:13:24.980
 being a fugitive,
 
 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:27.402
 I could not trust many people,
 
 00:13:27.461 --> 00:13:29.162
 including other black men, because,
 
 00:13:29.221 --> 00:13:30.383
 of course,
 
 00:13:30.822 --> 00:13:32.363
 someone might take advantage of
 
 00:13:32.383 --> 00:13:34.644
 a bounty on my head, even a colored man,
 
 00:13:35.823 --> 00:13:36.664
 and turn me in.
 
 00:13:37.904 --> 00:13:41.666
 But it was really when I arrived in Boston,
 
 00:13:42.206 --> 00:13:44.346
 well, not Boston, but New Bedford,
 
 00:13:45.442 --> 00:13:48.062
 that I saw the stark contrast that I,
 
 00:13:48.082 --> 00:13:49.342
 or the misconception that I
 
 00:13:49.383 --> 00:13:52.024
 had about how money and
 
 00:13:52.104 --> 00:13:55.924
 wealth are powered free territory.
 
 00:13:56.804 --> 00:13:58.904
 Of course, on the plantation,
 
 00:13:59.325 --> 00:14:00.605
 everything that I knew of
 
 00:14:00.686 --> 00:14:03.005
 wealth was that if you owned slaves,
 
 00:14:04.046 --> 00:14:06.086
 then you had wealth.
 
 00:14:07.147 --> 00:14:08.346
 Any white man who did not
 
 00:14:08.466 --> 00:14:11.268
 own slaves was quite impoverished.
 
 00:14:12.288 --> 00:14:13.389
 And this is what I expected
 
 00:14:13.428 --> 00:14:14.989
 to see when I arrived in New Bedford.
 
 00:14:15.868 --> 00:14:18.889
 But actually, it was the opposite was true,
 
 00:14:18.929 --> 00:14:20.671
 that those men who did not
 
 00:14:20.791 --> 00:14:23.773
 own slaves had this finer house,
 
 00:14:24.413 --> 00:14:25.754
 had their own business,
 
 00:14:26.115 --> 00:14:28.515
 read as many books as any
 
 00:14:29.736 --> 00:14:32.999
 plantation owner in Virginia or Maryland.
 
 00:14:33.700 --> 00:14:35.441
 And so things were getting
 
 00:14:35.701 --> 00:14:36.861
 along quite well, even
 
 00:14:37.330 --> 00:14:39.211
 on shipyards where I was at
 
 00:14:39.270 --> 00:14:40.990
 in new bedford men were
 
 00:14:41.030 --> 00:14:42.692
 working along side by side
 
 00:14:43.072 --> 00:14:44.652
 not being whipped to make a
 
 00:14:44.692 --> 00:14:48.692
 day's wage but working and
 
 00:14:48.732 --> 00:14:50.974
 giving his diligent work to
 
 00:14:51.053 --> 00:14:55.235
 earn an honest dollar can
 
 00:14:55.254 --> 00:14:56.676
 you tell us I know the
 
 00:14:56.735 --> 00:15:00.336
 story is recounted in your autobiography
 
 00:15:01.009 --> 00:15:04.451
 about how you learned how to
 
 00:15:04.650 --> 00:15:06.111
 read and to write.
 
 00:15:06.152 --> 00:15:07.633
 It's an amazing story,
 
 00:15:08.113 --> 00:15:10.974
 if you don't mind sharing it.
 
 00:15:11.033 --> 00:15:11.354
 Yes.
 
 00:15:11.453 --> 00:15:12.333
 Well, of course,
 
 00:15:13.835 --> 00:15:15.155
 it was maybe divine
 
 00:15:15.196 --> 00:15:16.296
 providence that I was sent
 
 00:15:16.336 --> 00:15:17.836
 to Baltimore to live with
 
 00:15:17.876 --> 00:15:18.996
 my master's cousin.
 
 00:15:19.017 --> 00:15:20.197
 She was Sophia Aul.
 
 00:15:20.998 --> 00:15:23.778
 Mrs. Aul, Miss Sophia.
 
 00:15:23.798 --> 00:15:24.899
 She initially
 
 00:15:26.883 --> 00:15:27.562
 unbeknownst,
 
 00:15:28.364 --> 00:15:30.044
 not having owned slaves before,
 
 00:15:30.885 --> 00:15:32.145
 started to teach me some
 
 00:15:32.225 --> 00:15:35.008
 ABCs to read to me from the
 
 00:15:35.048 --> 00:15:36.328
 Bible or the newspaper.
 
 00:15:37.009 --> 00:15:38.230
 And once I had a few words
 
 00:15:38.269 --> 00:15:40.130
 to describe my misery, of course,
 
 00:15:40.171 --> 00:15:41.471
 my mind started to free.
 
 00:15:41.572 --> 00:15:43.613
 I started to find a new spirit.
 
 00:15:44.293 --> 00:15:45.374
 And of course, quickly,
 
 00:15:45.394 --> 00:15:46.815
 her husband found out that
 
 00:15:46.835 --> 00:15:48.176
 she was teaching me how to read.
 
 00:15:49.096 --> 00:15:49.496
 He said,
 
 00:15:49.537 --> 00:15:51.378
 do not teach that boy how to read.
 
 00:15:51.697 --> 00:15:53.499
 You will make him good for nothing.
 
 00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:55.961
 An educated slave is a worthless slave.
 
 00:15:57.046 --> 00:15:58.386
 And so from that point on,
 
 00:15:58.407 --> 00:16:00.869
 she stopped teaching me how to read.
 
 00:16:01.328 --> 00:16:03.070
 And I had to start fending for myself.
 
 00:16:03.169 --> 00:16:05.072
 I would go out and as I
 
 00:16:05.172 --> 00:16:06.432
 walked the boys to school,
 
 00:16:06.533 --> 00:16:10.054
 I would steal A, Bs and Cs from them.
 
 00:16:10.735 --> 00:16:11.635
 I would trick them into
 
 00:16:11.696 --> 00:16:13.417
 making letters in the sand
 
 00:16:13.537 --> 00:16:14.457
 that I did not know.
 
 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.140
 I might share a biscuit from
 
 00:16:18.760 --> 00:16:19.662
 the breakfast table,
 
 00:16:19.922 --> 00:16:21.722
 trade a word for a biscuit.
 
 00:16:23.038 --> 00:16:24.499
 And then later, of course,
 
 00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:27.961
 I was able to purchase one
 
 00:16:28.001 --> 00:16:29.282
 of the books that I saw the
 
 00:16:29.302 --> 00:16:32.303
 boys carrying on a daily basis to school,
 
 00:16:32.664 --> 00:16:34.086
 the Columbian Orator.
 
 00:16:34.985 --> 00:16:36.427
 And so once I purchased this
 
 00:16:36.706 --> 00:16:37.947
 Columbian Orator,
 
 00:16:38.408 --> 00:16:39.969
 it gave me some foundation
 
 00:16:40.028 --> 00:16:42.110
 as far as not only writing,
 
 00:16:42.191 --> 00:16:44.211
 but the skills of oratory.
 
 00:16:44.913 --> 00:16:46.453
 That book that the boys were
 
 00:16:46.474 --> 00:16:48.754
 carrying had arguments for
 
 00:16:48.894 --> 00:16:50.135
 and against slavery
 
 00:16:52.735 --> 00:16:53.996
 And so this is how I started
 
 00:16:54.037 --> 00:16:56.759
 developing my ideas about
 
 00:16:56.778 --> 00:16:58.500
 the concept of abolition
 
 00:16:59.299 --> 00:17:02.642
 and how to express myself in that way.
 
 00:17:02.682 --> 00:17:06.144
 Of course, as the master said,
 
 00:17:06.263 --> 00:17:08.385
 an educated slave is a worthless slave.
 
 00:17:08.405 --> 00:17:10.747
 It was not too long that I
 
 00:17:10.787 --> 00:17:12.327
 became quite useless to my
 
 00:17:12.407 --> 00:17:13.648
 master in Baltimore.
 
 00:17:14.128 --> 00:17:16.230
 They sent me back to Talbot County,
 
 00:17:17.270 --> 00:17:18.551
 put me under the servitude
 
 00:17:18.612 --> 00:17:20.212
 of a notorious slave breaker,
 
 00:17:20.665 --> 00:17:22.067
 by the name of Mr. Covey,
 
 00:17:22.507 --> 00:17:24.107
 who literally tried to whip
 
 00:17:24.788 --> 00:17:26.869
 the education out of me and
 
 00:17:26.890 --> 00:17:28.451
 was almost successful until
 
 00:17:28.490 --> 00:17:31.192
 I decided I would fight back.
 
 00:17:31.272 --> 00:17:33.233
 And once I demanded my manhood,
 
 00:17:33.974 --> 00:17:35.355
 then I went unmolested for
 
 00:17:35.395 --> 00:17:36.316
 the rest of the time on
 
 00:17:36.336 --> 00:17:38.357
 that plantation and ended
 
 00:17:38.438 --> 00:17:40.699
 up back in Baltimore.
 
 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:42.460
 And then how did you make
 
 00:17:42.500 --> 00:17:44.241
 your way out of Baltimore
 
 00:17:44.442 --> 00:17:47.182
 and escape from slavery?
 
 00:17:47.223 --> 00:17:47.463
 Well,
 
 00:17:49.284 --> 00:17:49.523
 You see,
 
 00:17:49.544 --> 00:17:51.305
 I had already tried to escape once
 
 00:17:51.384 --> 00:17:52.346
 on the plantation,
 
 00:17:52.967 --> 00:17:54.446
 Mr. Greeley's plantation,
 
 00:17:54.488 --> 00:17:56.449
 where I devised a plan with
 
 00:17:56.489 --> 00:17:58.289
 four other colored men that
 
 00:17:58.349 --> 00:18:01.711
 we would catch a raft and
 
 00:18:01.751 --> 00:18:02.472
 make our way up to
 
 00:18:02.512 --> 00:18:04.314
 Chesapeake Bay on Easter
 
 00:18:04.713 --> 00:18:05.795
 and make our escape.
 
 00:18:05.875 --> 00:18:07.276
 Unfortunately,
 
 00:18:07.355 --> 00:18:09.237
 one of them betrayed us and
 
 00:18:09.277 --> 00:18:10.097
 we were captured.
 
 00:18:11.019 --> 00:18:12.118
 But the way that I made my
 
 00:18:12.278 --> 00:18:14.701
 way out of Baltimore was
 
 00:18:14.740 --> 00:18:19.064
 that through the help of my wife,
 
 00:18:19.699 --> 00:18:20.358
 Anna Mary.
 
 00:18:20.818 --> 00:18:23.380
 You see, on the weekend, we were allowed,
 
 00:18:23.460 --> 00:18:25.540
 both free and enslaved
 
 00:18:25.580 --> 00:18:26.942
 colored people were allowed.
 
 00:18:26.961 --> 00:18:28.682
 So Anna Mary was free.
 
 00:18:28.843 --> 00:18:29.222
 Yes.
 
 00:18:30.083 --> 00:18:32.584
 And I met Anna Mary,
 
 00:18:33.104 --> 00:18:34.065
 who was the first of eight
 
 00:18:34.105 --> 00:18:35.244
 children to be born free.
 
 00:18:36.125 --> 00:18:38.905
 And so we decided that we
 
 00:18:38.945 --> 00:18:40.987
 would get married.
 
 00:18:41.047 --> 00:18:42.827
 Of course, she said, Frederick,
 
 00:18:44.048 --> 00:18:45.528
 I certainly don't mind marrying
 
 00:18:46.307 --> 00:18:47.728
 but I don't want my children,
 
 00:18:47.827 --> 00:18:50.088
 I don't want their father to be a slave.
 
 00:18:51.048 --> 00:18:52.288
 And so we decided that we
 
 00:18:52.308 --> 00:18:53.369
 would make this plan where
 
 00:18:53.390 --> 00:18:54.829
 I would dress up as a sailor,
 
 00:18:56.069 --> 00:18:57.191
 catch a train out of
 
 00:18:57.270 --> 00:19:00.171
 Baltimore through Annapolis to New York,
 
 00:19:00.211 --> 00:19:01.872
 and then I would send for Anna,
 
 00:19:02.951 --> 00:19:04.112
 and then we would start out
 
 00:19:04.152 --> 00:19:05.452
 life and freedom together.
 
 00:19:06.093 --> 00:19:07.212
 And so that's what happened.
 
 00:19:07.232 --> 00:19:09.814
 She sold her bed clothes, she sold me,
 
 00:19:10.314 --> 00:19:11.574
 made me a sailor suit,
 
 00:19:11.933 --> 00:19:13.234
 and I boarded a train,
 
 00:19:13.595 --> 00:19:14.615
 dressed as a sailor,
 
 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:17.421
 made my way out of Baltimore.
 
 00:19:17.902 --> 00:19:19.602
 So it was possible for black
 
 00:19:19.663 --> 00:19:21.143
 men to serve as sailors,
 
 00:19:21.202 --> 00:19:22.983
 both in the Navy as well as
 
 00:19:23.084 --> 00:19:24.204
 in the merchant service?
 
 00:19:24.565 --> 00:19:25.746
 Yes, they could.
 
 00:19:26.546 --> 00:19:29.428
 And so that was the technique that I used,
 
 00:19:29.508 --> 00:19:32.809
 of course, when sailors, colored sailors,
 
 00:19:32.849 --> 00:19:34.289
 they were permitted to travel.
 
 00:19:35.270 --> 00:19:37.192
 And they could travel with
 
 00:19:37.471 --> 00:19:40.213
 the identification of that of a sailor,
 
 00:19:40.233 --> 00:19:40.773
 with an eagle.
 
 00:19:41.588 --> 00:19:43.670
 As opposed to having their freedom papers.
 
 00:19:43.750 --> 00:19:45.330
 And so I remember sitting on
 
 00:19:45.351 --> 00:19:46.951
 the train and the conductor
 
 00:19:46.971 --> 00:19:49.772
 coming up to me and saying, boy,
 
 00:19:49.833 --> 00:19:52.914
 where are your freedom papers?
 
 00:19:52.954 --> 00:19:53.154
 Well,
 
 00:19:53.234 --> 00:19:55.276
 I just flashed the eagle at him and
 
 00:19:55.476 --> 00:19:56.395
 he waved me on.
 
 00:20:00.627 --> 00:20:02.709
 You also have recounted,
 
 00:20:04.229 --> 00:20:06.549
 you became a powerful speaker,
 
 00:20:06.589 --> 00:20:08.290
 but also a very profound writer.
 
 00:20:08.371 --> 00:20:11.011
 And when you moved out of Massachusetts,
 
 00:20:11.051 --> 00:20:12.832
 you started a newspaper in
 
 00:20:12.892 --> 00:20:14.653
 Rochester called the North Star.
 
 00:20:14.692 --> 00:20:15.653
 Can you tell us a bit about
 
 00:20:16.153 --> 00:20:17.233
 what it's like being a
 
 00:20:17.334 --> 00:20:20.234
 newspaper editor publisher?
 
 00:20:20.275 --> 00:20:22.276
 Well, I certainly,
 
 00:20:22.395 --> 00:20:24.155
 I had from my days of
 
 00:20:24.236 --> 00:20:25.576
 writing and contributing
 
 00:20:26.425 --> 00:20:28.366
 to Mr. Garrison's Liberator.
 
 00:20:29.228 --> 00:20:31.969
 That's where I got that itch,
 
 00:20:32.028 --> 00:20:32.950
 if you might say.
 
 00:20:34.049 --> 00:20:36.112
 And then when I was in England,
 
 00:20:39.492 --> 00:20:40.594
 during the time I was
 
 00:20:40.854 --> 00:20:42.295
 fighting for my manumission,
 
 00:20:42.795 --> 00:20:44.876
 Julia Griffiths, the Richardson family,
 
 00:20:44.936 --> 00:20:48.578
 all these people in England, raised money,
 
 00:20:48.618 --> 00:20:49.759
 not only helped me purchase
 
 00:20:49.798 --> 00:20:50.680
 my manumission,
 
 00:20:51.140 --> 00:20:52.901
 but two thousand five
 
 00:20:52.921 --> 00:20:54.501
 hundred dollars for a printing press.
 
 00:20:55.346 --> 00:20:56.946
 And so I came back from America,
 
 00:20:56.967 --> 00:20:58.126
 not only a free man,
 
 00:20:58.508 --> 00:21:00.229
 but with the intention of
 
 00:21:00.288 --> 00:21:01.689
 starting my own newspaper
 
 00:21:01.729 --> 00:21:03.130
 and having my own voice.
 
 00:21:04.309 --> 00:21:06.131
 And so this is where the
 
 00:21:06.171 --> 00:21:07.951
 real split started with Mr.
 
 00:21:07.991 --> 00:21:08.893
 Garrison and I,
 
 00:21:09.292 --> 00:21:10.673
 not just over the newspaper,
 
 00:21:11.054 --> 00:21:13.535
 but based on my philosophy now.
 
 00:21:14.162 --> 00:21:15.202
 my understanding of the
 
 00:21:15.242 --> 00:21:16.202
 constitution and the
 
 00:21:16.242 --> 00:21:18.884
 founding fathers that we
 
 00:21:18.904 --> 00:21:20.726
 should be talking about the
 
 00:21:21.227 --> 00:21:22.547
 the constitution being a
 
 00:21:22.728 --> 00:21:26.210
 remedy uh to to slavery
 
 00:21:27.570 --> 00:21:29.731
 interesting now you of
 
 00:21:29.791 --> 00:21:31.373
 course would have been both
 
 00:21:31.553 --> 00:21:33.213
 a boy and enslaved at the
 
 00:21:33.253 --> 00:21:34.335
 time of the fiftieth
 
 00:21:34.394 --> 00:21:37.217
 anniversaries of american independence
 
 00:21:38.018 --> 00:21:39.159
 then of course you're a man
 
 00:21:39.298 --> 00:21:40.279
 and free with much
 
 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:41.340
 experience in the world at
 
 00:21:41.361 --> 00:21:42.682
 the time of the centennial
 
 00:21:42.702 --> 00:21:43.703
 and I wonder if you have
 
 00:21:44.203 --> 00:21:45.325
 much to say about the
 
 00:21:45.365 --> 00:21:46.526
 hundredth anniversary of
 
 00:21:46.566 --> 00:21:50.410
 american independence yes
 
 00:21:50.529 --> 00:21:52.612
 well uh I was there in
 
 00:21:52.652 --> 00:21:54.374
 boston at faneuil hall and
 
 00:21:54.394 --> 00:21:57.336
 uh and celebrated uh the
 
 00:21:57.375 --> 00:21:58.617
 hundredth anniversary
 
 00:21:59.397 --> 00:22:02.020
 alongside uh wendell phillips and uh
 
 00:22:02.901 --> 00:22:03.942
 Mrs. Livermore,
 
 00:22:04.241 --> 00:22:05.501
 they gave me an opportunity
 
 00:22:05.541 --> 00:22:07.683
 to speak at Faneuil Hall.
 
 00:22:08.864 --> 00:22:10.525
 And it was quite peculiar
 
 00:22:10.565 --> 00:22:13.747
 because at this time, by now,
 
 00:22:14.527 --> 00:22:16.407
 the colored man had gotten
 
 00:22:16.449 --> 00:22:17.669
 the elected franchise.
 
 00:22:18.910 --> 00:22:23.132
 I had already been in Rochester,
 
 00:22:23.172 --> 00:22:24.032
 in Seneca Falls,
 
 00:22:24.093 --> 00:22:26.493
 standing with the women to
 
 00:22:26.513 --> 00:22:28.555
 demand suffrage.
 
 00:22:30.375 --> 00:22:31.576
 Unfortunately, when
 
 00:22:32.373 --> 00:22:34.554
 the Fifteenth Amendment was passed,
 
 00:22:35.534 --> 00:22:36.775
 the country was not ready
 
 00:22:36.815 --> 00:22:38.535
 and the women had to stand aside.
 
 00:22:40.455 --> 00:22:41.296
 That was too bad.
 
 00:22:41.316 --> 00:22:42.557
 And so on the speech that I
 
 00:22:42.576 --> 00:22:43.977
 gave there at Fenier Hall,
 
 00:22:44.517 --> 00:22:46.137
 I was trying to reassure
 
 00:22:46.178 --> 00:22:47.117
 the audience that I was
 
 00:22:47.178 --> 00:22:48.558
 still on the side of the women.
 
 00:22:48.679 --> 00:22:50.699
 I said to Mrs. Livermore,
 
 00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:54.079
 I have always been for the
 
 00:22:54.140 --> 00:22:54.780
 rights of women.
 
 00:22:54.820 --> 00:22:56.201
 When I argued for the rights
 
 00:22:56.921 --> 00:22:58.521
 of the right to vote,
 
 00:22:58.662 --> 00:22:59.942
 I had the women in mind.
 
 00:23:02.215 --> 00:23:04.198
 Well, if you visit Faneuil Hall today,
 
 00:23:04.238 --> 00:23:05.419
 you'll note that your bust
 
 00:23:05.499 --> 00:23:07.661
 is there along with John Adams,
 
 00:23:07.721 --> 00:23:09.722
 Daniel Webster, John Quincy Adams,
 
 00:23:09.762 --> 00:23:10.703
 and Lucy Stone.
 
 00:23:11.744 --> 00:23:13.365
 So your voice is remembered
 
 00:23:13.405 --> 00:23:14.267
 in Faneuil Hall.
 
 00:23:16.028 --> 00:23:20.432
 Well, that's quite an honor.
 
 00:23:20.653 --> 00:23:21.574
 I feel quite honored.
 
 00:23:21.653 --> 00:23:24.436
 Well, I take that with unusual diffidence.
 
 00:23:25.563 --> 00:23:26.624
 Well, Mr. Douglas,
 
 00:23:26.663 --> 00:23:27.644
 it's a great honor to have
 
 00:23:27.703 --> 00:23:29.025
 you with us today.
 
 00:23:29.065 --> 00:23:30.045
 Is there anything further
 
 00:23:30.085 --> 00:23:31.185
 you would like to tell our
 
 00:23:31.246 --> 00:23:33.787
 audience before we let you get back to?
 
 00:23:35.969 --> 00:23:37.548
 Well, I would say I don't know.
 
 00:23:38.269 --> 00:23:38.529
 I mean,
 
 00:23:38.630 --> 00:23:41.551
 although I have been asked as today
 
 00:23:42.051 --> 00:23:43.333
 to come back to the modern
 
 00:23:43.432 --> 00:23:46.693
 era and make some
 
 00:23:46.733 --> 00:23:47.694
 connection with what's
 
 00:23:47.734 --> 00:23:48.976
 going on in American
 
 00:23:49.036 --> 00:23:50.556
 society as it is today.
 
 00:23:51.057 --> 00:23:54.939
 And what I try to always leave this idea
 
 00:23:56.219 --> 00:24:01.343
 that the Constitution is a living document,
 
 00:24:01.363 --> 00:24:02.282
 a living idea.
 
 00:24:02.363 --> 00:24:05.065
 There are literally two constitutions,
 
 00:24:05.285 --> 00:24:07.405
 one founded by the founding fathers,
 
 00:24:08.047 --> 00:24:09.907
 and that Constitution that
 
 00:24:10.008 --> 00:24:13.830
 lives in all of us, in our body politic.
 
 00:24:14.990 --> 00:24:16.751
 And it is my humble
 
 00:24:17.232 --> 00:24:18.513
 summation that there are
 
 00:24:19.213 --> 00:24:23.175
 four boxes to our liberty.
 
 00:24:24.017 --> 00:24:25.377
 And those are, of course,
 
 00:24:27.895 --> 00:24:34.761
 the soapbox, the jury box, the ballot box,
 
 00:24:35.662 --> 00:24:37.022
 and the cartridge box.
 
 00:24:38.664 --> 00:24:40.286
 And so if we keep these four
 
 00:24:40.306 --> 00:24:41.507
 branches of our body
 
 00:24:41.547 --> 00:24:43.127
 politic on equal footing,
 
 00:24:43.807 --> 00:24:46.269
 we will be sitting on a stable democracy.
 
 00:24:46.369 --> 00:24:48.632
 But if we let one get
 
 00:24:49.712 --> 00:24:50.814
 heavier than the other,
 
 00:24:51.753 --> 00:24:53.055
 then we might be sitting on
 
 00:24:53.675 --> 00:24:55.017
 an unstable democracy.
 
 00:24:56.993 --> 00:24:58.134
 Well, thank you.
 
 00:24:58.595 --> 00:25:00.234
 Very, very profound thought.
 
 00:25:00.875 --> 00:25:03.415
 We've been talking with Frederick Douglass,
 
 00:25:03.435 --> 00:25:06.057
 a man who perhaps needs no introduction,
 
 00:25:06.096 --> 00:25:07.217
 but if you do need more,
 
 00:25:07.277 --> 00:25:09.417
 I invite you to read one of
 
 00:25:09.478 --> 00:25:12.419
 his autobiographies, My Slave, My Bondage,
 
 00:25:12.439 --> 00:25:13.338
 and My Freedom,
 
 00:25:14.199 --> 00:25:15.980
 The Life and Times of Frederick Douglass.
 
 00:25:16.660 --> 00:25:18.801
 and also his many speeches.
 
 00:25:19.041 --> 00:25:21.583
 And we're also joined by Nathan Richardson,
 
 00:25:21.663 --> 00:25:23.365
 who is a veteran of the
 
 00:25:23.404 --> 00:25:25.605
 United States Army, a native of Suffolk,
 
 00:25:25.625 --> 00:25:26.146
 Virginia,
 
 00:25:26.727 --> 00:25:28.647
 and the founder of Spiritual
 
 00:25:28.688 --> 00:25:30.710
 Concepts Publishing, a poet,
 
 00:25:31.670 --> 00:25:33.211
 several volumes of poetry,
 
 00:25:33.250 --> 00:25:34.392
 including The Likeness of
 
 00:25:34.432 --> 00:25:35.712
 Being and The Twenty-One
 
 00:25:35.752 --> 00:25:37.713
 Imaginary T-Shirts and The
 
 00:25:37.753 --> 00:25:40.016
 Last Seven Poems by an Unarmed Citizen.
 
 00:25:40.056 --> 00:25:40.776
 And since
 
 00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:47.480
 audiences,
 
 00:25:47.601 --> 00:25:49.582
 both live audiences as well as
 
 00:25:49.622 --> 00:25:51.202
 virtual audience.
 
 00:25:51.222 --> 00:25:52.624
 So Mr. Richardson, thanks for joining us.
 
 00:25:53.324 --> 00:25:53.864
 Thank you.
 
 00:25:53.983 --> 00:25:55.384
 Thank you, professors.
 
 00:25:55.525 --> 00:25:56.165
 It's a great honor.
 
 00:25:56.185 --> 00:25:59.287
 And so can you tell us what
 
 00:25:59.407 --> 00:26:00.907
 drew you to Frederick Douglass?
 
 00:26:02.469 --> 00:26:06.311
 Well, as you mentioned in my bio there,
 
 00:26:06.332 --> 00:26:07.932
 I was a poet.
 
 00:26:07.951 --> 00:26:09.472
 I was born a storyteller,
 
 00:26:09.512 --> 00:26:11.555
 grew up in a small community in Suffolk.
 
 00:26:12.535 --> 00:26:13.336
 And I was actually a
 
 00:26:14.364 --> 00:26:16.684
 known for being a poet and on stage,
 
 00:26:16.765 --> 00:26:19.224
 as many stages, doing spoken word.
 
 00:26:19.265 --> 00:26:20.965
 And someone approached me
 
 00:26:21.006 --> 00:26:23.266
 suggesting that I do some history.
 
 00:26:24.686 --> 00:26:27.247
 And as I started to research
 
 00:26:27.867 --> 00:26:30.768
 to decide what character I might pursue,
 
 00:26:30.847 --> 00:26:34.449
 it was Douglass' words that
 
 00:26:34.588 --> 00:26:36.849
 struck me most profoundly.
 
 00:26:37.950 --> 00:26:38.890
 Even though there were no
 
 00:26:39.049 --> 00:26:40.750
 recordings of his voice,
 
 00:26:42.346 --> 00:26:44.749
 As a poet, and he was a poet as well,
 
 00:26:44.868 --> 00:26:47.410
 Douglass wrote poems,
 
 00:26:47.509 --> 00:26:49.611
 he was acquainted with most
 
 00:26:49.651 --> 00:26:50.771
 of the poets of the day,
 
 00:26:51.711 --> 00:26:53.272
 that I really heard
 
 00:26:53.634 --> 00:26:55.334
 Frederick Douglass' voice
 
 00:26:56.555 --> 00:26:57.655
 and realized that I might
 
 00:26:57.675 --> 00:27:00.017
 be able to have some kinship with him.
 
 00:27:02.748 --> 00:27:03.188
 He does.
 
 00:27:03.248 --> 00:27:05.990
 His voice does come through in his,
 
 00:27:06.430 --> 00:27:08.530
 if you read his orations or
 
 00:27:08.550 --> 00:27:11.652
 if you read his editorials or his essays,
 
 00:27:11.892 --> 00:27:13.792
 it really does come through
 
 00:27:13.853 --> 00:27:16.534
 as a unique voice,
 
 00:27:16.673 --> 00:27:18.115
 but also one we can see in
 
 00:27:18.154 --> 00:27:19.776
 keeping with the nineteenth century,
 
 00:27:20.336 --> 00:27:20.516
 you know,
 
 00:27:20.596 --> 00:27:26.419
 idea of the orator and the philosopher.
 
 00:27:26.479 --> 00:27:27.179
 Yes, yes.
 
 00:27:27.278 --> 00:27:29.380
 He, of course, he not only
 
 00:27:32.320 --> 00:27:33.862
 as Mr. Douglass was saying
 
 00:27:34.001 --> 00:27:36.903
 in his time to speak to the audience,
 
 00:27:37.724 --> 00:27:39.905
 read the Founding Fathers, but he read,
 
 00:27:41.006 --> 00:27:42.487
 by the time he was an old man,
 
 00:27:42.988 --> 00:27:44.288
 more than five thousand books,
 
 00:27:44.367 --> 00:27:46.249
 including all the literary
 
 00:27:46.288 --> 00:27:49.330
 giants of the day, Emerson, Whittier,
 
 00:27:50.051 --> 00:27:50.571
 Whitman.
 
 00:27:51.692 --> 00:27:54.294
 And so these poets were not just poets,
 
 00:27:54.334 --> 00:27:56.414
 they were activists as well.
 
 00:27:58.215 --> 00:28:00.877
 And so they contributed
 
 00:28:01.532 --> 00:28:02.554
 from the perspective that
 
 00:28:02.574 --> 00:28:04.135
 they gave him a vernacular
 
 00:28:04.776 --> 00:28:08.819
 to add a lot of imagery to
 
 00:28:08.839 --> 00:28:11.823
 his speeches to really help
 
 00:28:11.843 --> 00:28:13.084
 an audience see the
 
 00:28:13.144 --> 00:28:15.306
 contrast and the
 
 00:28:15.365 --> 00:28:17.087
 contradictions in American society.
 
 00:28:18.419 --> 00:28:19.619
 And he did write that one
 
 00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:21.221
 short story based on the
 
 00:28:21.260 --> 00:28:22.362
 story of the Creole,
 
 00:28:22.402 --> 00:28:23.422
 and the central character
 
 00:28:23.482 --> 00:28:25.023
 is named Madison Washington,
 
 00:28:25.044 --> 00:28:26.805
 who leads a rebellion.
 
 00:28:26.825 --> 00:28:28.385
 Yeah.
 
 00:28:28.445 --> 00:28:29.626
 Well, he wrote that, and then he said,
 
 00:28:29.646 --> 00:28:29.727
 well,
 
 00:28:29.747 --> 00:28:30.586
 I think I will stick to the facts of
 
 00:28:30.606 --> 00:28:34.509
 history rather than the novella.
 
 00:28:39.353 --> 00:28:41.315
 You've appeared or been to
 
 00:28:41.355 --> 00:28:43.836
 his home in Anacostia in Washington.
 
 00:28:45.257 --> 00:28:46.979
 Yes, I've been very privileged to
 
 00:28:48.092 --> 00:28:50.453
 to stand in many of the
 
 00:28:50.473 --> 00:28:51.894
 footsteps of Frederick Douglass,
 
 00:28:51.954 --> 00:28:55.798
 including his house there in Washington,
 
 00:28:55.837 --> 00:28:59.240
 D.C., Cedar Hill, Anacostia,
 
 00:28:59.300 --> 00:29:00.442
 that whole community.
 
 00:29:00.781 --> 00:29:02.482
 He was very active throughout there,
 
 00:29:02.983 --> 00:29:04.044
 Anacostia Park.
 
 00:29:04.744 --> 00:29:06.906
 In Rochester,
 
 00:29:06.967 --> 00:29:09.067
 there is one home still
 
 00:29:09.127 --> 00:29:12.211
 standing in Rochester that he owned.
 
 00:29:12.750 --> 00:29:15.232
 Many people know about his first house on
 
 00:29:16.324 --> 00:29:17.365
 when he first moved there
 
 00:29:17.384 --> 00:29:19.186
 and then his house on South Avenue.
 
 00:29:19.788 --> 00:29:21.068
 But there was another home
 
 00:29:21.088 --> 00:29:22.049
 that he purchased
 
 00:29:22.911 --> 00:29:24.152
 specifically so he could
 
 00:29:24.172 --> 00:29:28.016
 keep his residency in New
 
 00:29:28.056 --> 00:29:30.357
 York so that he could vote
 
 00:29:31.219 --> 00:29:32.039
 as a New Yorker.
 
 00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:34.321
 And so that house is still standing.
 
 00:29:34.382 --> 00:29:37.545
 It's owned by a private family,
 
 00:29:38.105 --> 00:29:39.586
 but it's still standing there.
 
 00:29:41.115 --> 00:29:42.435
 And then his second wife
 
 00:29:42.496 --> 00:29:44.096
 preserved Anacostia as
 
 00:29:44.157 --> 00:29:47.819
 memorial to him after his death.
 
 00:29:47.861 --> 00:29:51.462
 Yes, Helen Pitts, of course,
 
 00:29:52.023 --> 00:29:53.285
 one of the agreements they had,
 
 00:29:53.464 --> 00:29:54.405
 what she promised him,
 
 00:29:54.526 --> 00:29:56.307
 is that she would try to
 
 00:29:56.346 --> 00:29:57.647
 preserve his legacy.
 
 00:29:57.688 --> 00:30:00.711
 And so that house is still standing.
 
 00:30:01.230 --> 00:30:03.153
 Because of Helen Pitts and
 
 00:30:04.713 --> 00:30:06.556
 the coalition that she started,
 
 00:30:07.587 --> 00:30:08.929
 with Mary Church Terrell and
 
 00:30:09.128 --> 00:30:10.209
 other black women in the
 
 00:30:10.269 --> 00:30:12.349
 Washington DC area to
 
 00:30:12.809 --> 00:30:14.351
 preserve that property.
 
 00:30:14.371 --> 00:30:15.891
 It's really,
 
 00:30:16.230 --> 00:30:17.632
 I encourage people to visit it
 
 00:30:17.672 --> 00:30:18.692
 because it's really a very
 
 00:30:18.872 --> 00:30:20.232
 moving experience to be in
 
 00:30:20.272 --> 00:30:22.233
 the home than this house.
 
 00:30:22.273 --> 00:30:23.753
 And one thing that struck me
 
 00:30:23.894 --> 00:30:26.955
 is in his little room, his sitting room,
 
 00:30:27.256 --> 00:30:28.976
 there's a bust of Wendell Phillips.
 
 00:30:28.996 --> 00:30:30.576
 There's a portrait of Wendell Phillips.
 
 00:30:30.616 --> 00:30:31.696
 You have to go upstairs to
 
 00:30:31.717 --> 00:30:32.978
 see a picture of Garrison.
 
 00:30:34.038 --> 00:30:34.357
 Yeah.
 
 00:30:36.707 --> 00:30:40.248
 yes yes yes yes so yeah so
 
 00:30:40.288 --> 00:30:41.448
 so what's been the uh
 
 00:30:41.827 --> 00:30:42.848
 what's been the things that
 
 00:30:42.868 --> 00:30:43.729
 have surprised you of
 
 00:30:43.788 --> 00:30:44.848
 people's reaction to
 
 00:30:44.888 --> 00:30:46.130
 frederick douglas when you
 
 00:30:46.210 --> 00:30:47.549
 are appearing as him or
 
 00:30:47.589 --> 00:30:50.451
 presenting him well uh one
 
 00:30:50.490 --> 00:30:52.191
 thing in particular and and
 
 00:30:52.250 --> 00:30:54.251
 this is really all about uh
 
 00:30:54.291 --> 00:30:57.752
 what we really did uh in
 
 00:30:58.353 --> 00:31:00.553
 the previous session uh is
 
 00:31:00.594 --> 00:31:01.413
 to have a fluid
 
 00:31:01.453 --> 00:31:04.074
 conversation not just about
 
 00:31:04.193 --> 00:31:04.835
 that that's uh
 
 00:31:06.624 --> 00:31:08.425
 of history but the dashes in
 
 00:31:08.465 --> 00:31:12.828
 between is to bring that
 
 00:31:12.868 --> 00:31:14.309
 story and the relationship
 
 00:31:14.369 --> 00:31:15.730
 of Frederick Douglass to
 
 00:31:16.392 --> 00:31:18.594
 all the other people in the
 
 00:31:18.634 --> 00:31:21.776
 nineteenth century and then
 
 00:31:22.676 --> 00:31:24.018
 to it kind of really breaks
 
 00:31:24.057 --> 00:31:26.559
 down some of the brashness
 
 00:31:27.060 --> 00:31:30.702
 in the conversations and
 
 00:31:30.723 --> 00:31:32.285
 the dialogue between people.
 
 00:31:33.105 --> 00:31:35.708
 Of course, when you're when you're online,
 
 00:31:35.788 --> 00:31:36.268
 if you're
 
 00:31:36.795 --> 00:31:37.695
 on the internet,
 
 00:31:38.215 --> 00:31:40.297
 you have some sense of anonymity.
 
 00:31:40.997 --> 00:31:43.818
 You can say things that you
 
 00:31:43.878 --> 00:31:45.038
 might not say otherwise.
 
 00:31:45.118 --> 00:31:47.221
 But in the hundreds of
 
 00:31:47.260 --> 00:31:48.201
 performances that I've
 
 00:31:48.221 --> 00:31:49.362
 given across the country,
 
 00:31:50.541 --> 00:31:53.144
 people rarely have the
 
 00:31:53.183 --> 00:31:56.766
 courage to be that brash in
 
 00:31:56.786 --> 00:31:58.987
 the presence of Frederick Douglass.
 
 00:31:59.227 --> 00:32:01.548
 And I don't really claim
 
 00:32:02.028 --> 00:32:03.429
 that credit that I'm
 
 00:32:03.469 --> 00:32:04.809
 channeling Douglass that much.
 
 00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:06.560
 Just that it takes a lot
 
 00:32:06.601 --> 00:32:09.964
 more courage to have that
 
 00:32:10.005 --> 00:32:14.308
 kind of animosity in the public square.
 
 00:32:15.710 --> 00:32:19.354
 And so the questions that I
 
 00:32:19.473 --> 00:32:21.056
 started out expecting from
 
 00:32:21.215 --> 00:32:23.238
 audiences have not really
 
 00:32:23.278 --> 00:32:26.862
 materialized too many times, a few times.
 
 00:32:27.923 --> 00:32:29.183
 I might be entertaining an
 
 00:32:29.223 --> 00:32:30.644
 audience at happy hour and
 
 00:32:30.684 --> 00:32:33.487
 somebody who's had one too
 
 00:32:33.507 --> 00:32:34.928
 many and they'll ask the
 
 00:32:34.948 --> 00:32:36.690
 question and try to challenge Douglas.
 
 00:32:37.951 --> 00:32:39.592
 I'm just curious now,
 
 00:32:39.612 --> 00:32:40.972
 what kinds of questions you
 
 00:32:40.992 --> 00:32:43.714
 were expecting?
 
 00:32:43.734 --> 00:32:43.855
 Well,
 
 00:32:43.875 --> 00:32:48.417
 I certainly would expect for those
 
 00:32:48.538 --> 00:32:49.919
 people who are still
 
 00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:53.481
 looking at and believe in
 
 00:32:54.603 --> 00:32:56.284
 the lost cause narrative,
 
 00:32:57.222 --> 00:32:58.624
 and still talk about those
 
 00:32:58.644 --> 00:33:01.964
 things online and amongst
 
 00:33:02.025 --> 00:33:03.506
 private groups to bring
 
 00:33:03.526 --> 00:33:04.665
 that into the public square
 
 00:33:04.685 --> 00:33:05.165
 when they have an
 
 00:33:05.226 --> 00:33:07.487
 opportunity to talk to them, right?
 
 00:33:08.146 --> 00:33:09.508
 I'm expecting... Now,
 
 00:33:09.728 --> 00:33:11.409
 one thing that I do get
 
 00:33:11.449 --> 00:33:12.669
 quite frequently is that
 
 00:33:12.709 --> 00:33:14.309
 the women will always
 
 00:33:15.670 --> 00:33:17.611
 challenge Douglas on his
 
 00:33:17.651 --> 00:33:19.152
 relationship with his wife
 
 00:33:19.491 --> 00:33:23.512
 and with Anna Mary and with
 
 00:33:23.532 --> 00:33:25.594
 Helen Pitts and with Annie Ostling.
 
 00:33:26.218 --> 00:33:27.358
 and all the women who
 
 00:33:27.419 --> 00:33:30.240
 surrounded Douglass because
 
 00:33:31.041 --> 00:33:32.423
 they're looking from the
 
 00:33:32.903 --> 00:33:34.724
 modern perspective of how
 
 00:33:35.526 --> 00:33:36.886
 relationships between men
 
 00:33:36.906 --> 00:33:37.886
 and women should be.
 
 00:33:39.429 --> 00:33:42.490
 But as one of the great philosophers said,
 
 00:33:44.071 --> 00:33:45.973
 history is a foreign country.
 
 00:33:47.335 --> 00:33:48.855
 They do things differently there.
 
 00:33:48.875 --> 00:33:50.237
 Yes, that's true.
 
 00:33:52.361 --> 00:33:54.041
 And so it's kind of hard to
 
 00:33:54.082 --> 00:33:56.823
 put our expectations on the
 
 00:33:56.843 --> 00:33:58.442
 nineteenth century and how
 
 00:33:58.502 --> 00:33:59.103
 they should have been
 
 00:33:59.262 --> 00:34:00.663
 acting at that point.
 
 00:34:01.683 --> 00:34:07.226
 But I'm always, I mean, I put in the work.
 
 00:34:08.507 --> 00:34:10.047
 I don't really get too
 
 00:34:10.086 --> 00:34:13.929
 nervous about adults asking questions,
 
 00:34:13.969 --> 00:34:15.889
 but when a child raises their hand,
 
 00:34:20.164 --> 00:34:21.764
 When I'm in Tampa, Florida,
 
 00:34:21.945 --> 00:34:23.927
 and a twelve-year-old
 
 00:34:24.146 --> 00:34:26.528
 fourth grade girl raises her hand,
 
 00:34:26.849 --> 00:34:27.851
 I do not know what's
 
 00:34:27.871 --> 00:34:28.690
 getting ready to happen.
 
 00:34:29.891 --> 00:34:33.856
 Wow.
 
 00:34:33.876 --> 00:34:34.056
 Well,
 
 00:34:34.195 --> 00:34:35.396
 thank you so much for bringing
 
 00:34:35.436 --> 00:34:36.237
 Douglass back.
 
 00:34:36.297 --> 00:34:37.239
 As you were saying,
 
 00:34:37.318 --> 00:34:38.380
 coming back into the
 
 00:34:38.420 --> 00:34:40.141
 present age as Frederick Douglass,
 
 00:34:40.202 --> 00:34:41.103
 we really could use
 
 00:34:41.182 --> 00:34:42.643
 Frederick Douglass today.
 
 00:34:42.983 --> 00:34:44.786
 So thank you for doing your part to
 
 00:34:45.353 --> 00:34:46.253
 bring him back, you know,
 
 00:34:46.273 --> 00:34:48.394
 we can always learn more from Douglass,
 
 00:34:48.454 --> 00:34:49.755
 really a profound writer,
 
 00:34:49.835 --> 00:34:51.538
 thinker and speaker.
 
 00:34:51.597 --> 00:34:52.579
 So we're fortunate that
 
 00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:53.699
 Nathan Richardson has
 
 00:34:54.579 --> 00:34:55.760
 discovered him and has
 
 00:34:56.461 --> 00:34:58.563
 taken on Frederick Douglass.
 
 00:34:59.664 --> 00:35:01.706
 Anything, we could go on all day,
 
 00:35:01.726 --> 00:35:04.427
 but I know you have other things to do.
 
 00:35:04.447 --> 00:35:06.088
 You've done a lot of poetry
 
 00:35:06.128 --> 00:35:09.751
 workshops and done
 
 00:35:09.791 --> 00:35:10.833
 tremendous work in
 
 00:35:10.972 --> 00:35:12.173
 introducing young people to
 
 00:35:12.213 --> 00:35:14.094
 poetry and by helping them
 
 00:35:14.135 --> 00:35:14.916
 find their voices.
 
 00:35:16.081 --> 00:35:17.260
 Yes, yes, you know,
 
 00:35:17.740 --> 00:35:20.461
 and that's what I started
 
 00:35:20.501 --> 00:35:22.583
 out doing as a youth activist,
 
 00:35:23.463 --> 00:35:24.943
 coaching youth poets.
 
 00:35:25.983 --> 00:35:28.364
 When Amanda Gorman stood up
 
 00:35:28.945 --> 00:35:30.505
 at the inauguration and
 
 00:35:30.545 --> 00:35:32.726
 gave that fantastic poem,
 
 00:35:33.365 --> 00:35:35.166
 everybody was startled, but I was like,
 
 00:35:35.186 --> 00:35:35.445
 wow,
 
 00:35:35.505 --> 00:35:38.527
 I've seen many young people in
 
 00:35:38.567 --> 00:35:40.108
 America just like that,
 
 00:35:40.748 --> 00:35:42.288
 with those kind of capabilities,
 
 00:35:42.407 --> 00:35:45.409
 and so that's the foundation of
 
 00:35:46.657 --> 00:35:50.559
 of my work and what I still do.
 
 00:35:51.259 --> 00:35:52.458
 And one of the things that I,
 
 00:35:53.338 --> 00:35:56.059
 to join those two worlds is
 
 00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:58.940
 a performance or a program
 
 00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:00.521
 that I bring now to
 
 00:36:00.621 --> 00:36:02.960
 literary festivals and to,
 
 00:36:04.442 --> 00:36:06.541
 such as Frederick Douglass
 
 00:36:06.961 --> 00:36:08.722
 Stands Among the Literary Giants,
 
 00:36:09.302 --> 00:36:10.742
 which he talks about all
 
 00:36:10.802 --> 00:36:12.322
 his relationships with all
 
 00:36:12.362 --> 00:36:14.443
 the poets of the era,
 
 00:36:14.523 --> 00:36:15.903
 including Phillis Wheatley,
 
 00:36:17.168 --> 00:36:18.188
 the first Black poet to
 
 00:36:18.228 --> 00:36:20.869
 write a poem to Washington,
 
 00:36:20.969 --> 00:36:22.851
 to Francis E.W.
 
 00:36:22.891 --> 00:36:24.132
 Harper, to Whittier.
 
 00:36:24.152 --> 00:36:25.192
 I mean,
 
 00:36:25.592 --> 00:36:27.413
 we really go into depth about
 
 00:36:28.333 --> 00:36:30.554
 talking about what these poets were doing,
 
 00:36:30.574 --> 00:36:31.875
 that they were literally
 
 00:36:31.936 --> 00:36:34.416
 poets are the bees of society,
 
 00:36:35.677 --> 00:36:36.998
 the bees of humanity,
 
 00:36:37.498 --> 00:36:40.440
 poets punning the growth of mankind.
 
 00:36:42.621 --> 00:36:44.481
 And so we might not be aware
 
 00:36:44.501 --> 00:36:45.242
 of what they're doing,
 
 00:36:46.416 --> 00:36:47.096
 but they are really
 
 00:36:47.115 --> 00:36:49.717
 pollinating the growth of mankind.
 
 00:36:49.737 --> 00:36:52.438
 They're still doing it, even though poets,
 
 00:36:52.597 --> 00:36:54.637
 unlike the era of Whittier
 
 00:36:54.938 --> 00:36:58.099
 or even when we were young, poets like,
 
 00:36:58.119 --> 00:37:00.039
 I don't know,
 
 00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:02.099
 Frost and Sandberg and
 
 00:37:02.119 --> 00:37:03.541
 Marianne Moore were very
 
 00:37:03.581 --> 00:37:06.402
 much part of the public square.
 
 00:37:06.442 --> 00:37:10.242
 And now poets are still very much with us.
 
 00:37:10.282 --> 00:37:12.882
 We had a group of poets
 
 00:37:12.902 --> 00:37:14.284
 who've just done a re-create,
 
 00:37:16.141 --> 00:37:17.382
 Wheatley at two fifty,
 
 00:37:17.422 --> 00:37:18.644
 that is a number of African,
 
 00:37:18.905 --> 00:37:20.286
 actually African-American
 
 00:37:20.327 --> 00:37:21.369
 women poets who each
 
 00:37:21.429 --> 00:37:22.449
 reinterpreted one of
 
 00:37:22.570 --> 00:37:23.992
 Phyllis Wheatley's poems.
 
 00:37:24.193 --> 00:37:25.114
 Yes, yes.
 
 00:37:25.213 --> 00:37:26.715
 Reminding us of how the
 
 00:37:26.775 --> 00:37:28.197
 pollination continues.
 
 00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:30.280
 Yes, absolutely.
 
 00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:34.380
 Well, thank you so much, Nathan.
 
 00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:36.101
 It's been wonderful talking to you.
 
 00:37:36.521 --> 00:37:38.003
 And we've been talking with
 
 00:37:38.422 --> 00:37:39.364
 Nathan Richardson,
 
 00:37:39.523 --> 00:37:41.806
 who also presents as Frederick Douglass.
 
 00:37:41.885 --> 00:37:44.186
 And Nathan Richardson is the
 
 00:37:44.246 --> 00:37:45.568
 proprietor of Spiritual
 
 00:37:45.608 --> 00:37:46.869
 Concepts Publishing.
 
 00:37:47.429 --> 00:37:48.989
 And someone did ask,
 
 00:37:49.110 --> 00:37:50.371
 how come you don't publish books?
 
 00:37:50.411 --> 00:37:51.871
 But actually, your work is something else.
 
 00:37:51.911 --> 00:37:53.612
 It's getting poets and
 
 00:37:53.652 --> 00:37:55.313
 others to discover their own voices,
 
 00:37:55.373 --> 00:37:57.094
 which is a tremendous undertaking.
 
 00:37:57.576 --> 00:38:00.478
 Yes.
 
 00:38:00.538 --> 00:38:01.518
 So thank you so much.
 
 00:38:01.998 --> 00:38:02.599
 Thank you.
 
 00:38:03.427 --> 00:38:04.788
 And I want to thank Jonathan Lane,
 
 00:38:04.887 --> 00:38:05.768
 our producer,
 
 00:38:05.987 --> 00:38:07.688
 and our listeners around the
 
 00:38:07.708 --> 00:38:09.028
 country and around the world.
 
 00:38:09.088 --> 00:38:09.750
 And every week,
 
 00:38:09.769 --> 00:38:11.210
 we thank folks who we know
 
 00:38:11.250 --> 00:38:12.710
 are tuning in regularly.
 
 00:38:13.150 --> 00:38:13.891
 And if you're in one of
 
 00:38:13.911 --> 00:38:15.072
 these places and would like
 
 00:38:15.092 --> 00:38:17.873
 some of our Revolution Two-Fifty swag,
 
 00:38:19.454 --> 00:38:20.813
 send Jonathan Lane an email,
 
 00:38:20.853 --> 00:38:23.235
 jlane at revolutiontwofifty.org.
 
 00:38:23.494 --> 00:38:26.195
 And this week, our listeners in Watertown,
 
 00:38:26.215 --> 00:38:27.077
 Massachusetts,
 
 00:38:27.757 --> 00:38:29.878
 memphis tennessee st louis
 
 00:38:29.938 --> 00:38:31.780
 missouri bangkok thailand
 
 00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:33.802
 amman jordan and thank you
 
 00:38:33.902 --> 00:38:35.284
 all and all in places
 
 00:38:35.324 --> 00:38:36.565
 beyond in between for
 
 00:38:36.626 --> 00:38:38.027
 joining us and now we will
 
 00:38:38.068 --> 00:38:40.150
 be piped out on the road to boston